If they actually do this, it is the very definition of throwing down.
Wow.
Does Israel want a war with Turkey? They can’t win it, short of using nukes, and Turkey is a NATO member, if Israel attacks NATO ships, Turkey can invoke Article V (in fact, they can invoke it already, since the ships were attacked by a non NATO power on the high seas.) If Turkey does so, of course NATO nations will refuse, but doing so will break NATO.
This is high stakes.
Update: I might add that in the case of a war between Turkey and Israel, if Turkey is serious, unless Israel uses nukes, my money is on the Turks. They have a huge armored corp, and the nations between Israel and Turkey aren’t going to say no if Turkey asks for access (because if they do, Turkey will just roll right through them.) Also if Turkey and Israel goes to war, it’s at least 50/50 the Egypt jumps in as well.
Israel is really playing with fire on this one.
Update 2: See Sean-Paul’s comments on the domestic reasons of Turkey’s reaction, and what the death of the Israeli/Turkish Entente means.
Update 3: See this analysis (h/t Pogge) for the legalities. Short of it is that if the act wasn’t rogue, then this was an act of war, not an act of piracy.
rumor
I did not see that coming.
rumor
Ian, you might be interested in this statement on the legality of the IDF’s actions, by the Israeli Ministery of Foreign Affairs. They sure got that out fast. I’m not sure how much of this is accurate and how much is B.S. without doing some serious research, but there it is.
Ian Welsh
It’s BS according to friends who have the background. If they’d waited till the flotilla was in their waters, that’d be one thing, but this is clearly piracy.
ibaien
no possible way it’ll come to a shooting war. israel will just position subs off the turkish coast and quietly remind the turks that they can and will turn istanbul and ankara into so much glassy slag. but it’s a nice thought – i’d like to see someone, at least, stand up to the biggest bully in the region.
Ian Welsh
I was thinking about that: if I were Turkey I’d make a deal with Russia for nuclear cover. Russia would love to break up NATO, Turkey can give them that warm water port they want, and that’s the end of NATO. Russia just tells the Israelis that if they nuke Turkey, Israel disappears in radioactive dust.
I wonder how long it’d take for Turkey to get nukes of its own, as far as that goes. If its NATO “allies” won’t protect it from a rogue state… All Turkey has to do is say it’s been threatened by Israel with nukes, ask its allies to protect it, get turned down, and then say that since that’s the case, they’ll be getting nukes, thanks.
That said, of course you’re right, assuming no one does anything really stupid. Of course, lately the Israelis seem to specialize in “really stupid”.
ibaien
a russian-turkish alliance can’t help but make me think of ‘diplomacy’ openings (that should be ottoman-russian, but you know what i mean…). any idea what the russian posture on the incident has been like so far?
Curmudgeon
Turkey is throwing down the gauntlet to the Americans: reign in Israel or risk the destruction of NATO. NATO isn’t going to survive if the Americans demonstrate that Article V isn’t worth the paper its printed on.
Obama and H. Clinton will be doing their best to force Turkey to back down and apologize to Israel for the inconvenience in order to avoid making any hard choices about US policy.
The US would prefer to remain Israel’s client/patron and keep NATO as a tool to influence Europe. If forced to make a choice, however, the US would fight the Turks for Israel even at the expense of NATO collapsing.
Turkey is gambling that the Americans will ‘see reason’ and support Turkey when threatened with being forced into a corner. I would not make that bet. Religious fervor is thicker than a treaty.
jo6pac
This good news, a country with a back bone. I’ll bet the the us govt. is scrambling to try and stop this but with the way we treated Turkey the other day, will they aren’t going to take the call from the US.
Synoia
“If forced to make a choice, however, the US would fight the Turks for Israel even at the expense of NATO collapsing”
Another war? And the enmity of Europe? Loss of influence in Europe, and furthering the rise of Russia?
Osama Bin Laughing, again.
beowulf
The politics are so out of whack with the law. We have a Treaty obligation to defend our NATO ally Turkey if it invokes Article V, but the politics are on the side of supporting Israel through thick or thin. As I mentioned in the earlier thread, our Achilles heel is oil. If the US blows off Turkey’s assertion of Article V, I’d bet on OPEC cutting off the tap.
And no, Israel won’t go nuclear on Turkey in any event. DeGaulle insisted on France having its own nuclear weapons program (he figured the US and Britain would flake out sooner or later) and they’ve had SSBMs for decades. Therefore, even without Russia intervening, Turkey and the NATO alliance could still credibly threaten a second strike retaliation against Israel even if, well, the US and Britain flake out.
Old Uncle Dave
Israel has committed an act of war against a NATO member. According to the terms of the treaty, that constitutes an attack against all NATO members, including the United States. Israel is now the enemy. We should invade and take away their ability to wage war. If saying that makes me anti-semitic, so be it.
rohamius
@Old Uncle Dave
NATO is, actually, a big joke and nothing more. It’s like a modern Delian League where the USA is the major power and has a major role and is getting money by selling military equipment to all NATO members and asks them to follow to the USA wars. This incident has nothing to do with the USA, so nothing will happen. Turkey will be alone.
TaosJohn
The article you linked to has evidently been edited …
Curmudgeon
Oil blackmail is a non-starter. OPEC can’t embargo production without destroying their own economies.
Article V or not, the French will not go to the wall for Turkey. The French don’t like the Israelis all that much but they like the Turks even less. If the conflict threatens to go nuclear (which is a long, long way from where it is now), no one will subject themselves to the risk of an Israeli nuclear attack simply to protect the Turks.
Jacob
None of your reasoning does not come out. Israel simply wait quietly until the new fleet will affect its territorial waters, and there it just sinks. Then it turns out not Israel attacking side. This will be the only defense.
Sooner Israel will send only a warning.
USA PATRIOT
F*CK ISRAEL….Go Turkey..!!!
S Brennan
No matter how one looks at the conduct of the Israeli government and the IDF, it is hard to understand how stupid and tragic it was. Time and again, Israel tries to prove that what can’t be solved by force can be solved by more force. Over and over, the policies of force fail.
…Israel’s decision-makers should have revived memories of Israel’s own history. It shows just how short a historical memory the prime minister, defense minister, chief of staff, and Navy commander all have. They don’t remember the story of the Exodus ship in 1947.
The British Mandate authorities imposed a blockade on the shores of the land of Israel and Jewish leaders believed it was their right and their duty to break it. The Jewish immigrants on the Exodus decided to forcefully oppose every attempt to stop them. The Jewish leadership wanted to arouse the world’s conscience and gain a victory in the
battle for international sympathy.
In our day, Hamas leaders believe and act similarly. Without getting into the question of the justification or logic of the blockade imposed by Gaza and its residents, it was indeed clear that it was only natural that Hamas would try to break the blockade by force. They have been doing this by means of the smuggling tunnels and via the sea. It was clear that they saw it as their natural right to oppose attempts to stop the ships.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/analysis-israel-has-forgotten-the-lessons-of-the-exodus-1.293391
jo6pac
Israel simply wait quietly until the new fleet will affect its territorial waters, and there it just sinks
The water belongs to the citizens of Gaza and isn’t in Israel space I do believe. I do agree with everyone else the Turks will be on their own on this but who knows what will happen. It would be nice if the US would wake up to what really happening there. Ya right.
Jacob
So a certain area will be closed to marine waters as it is nicely specified conduct exercises and do not slip in that way, even a mouse. Instead, these waters are subject to dispute. Autonomy probably still does not allow the belt to define its waters. Do not confuse the moral issues of a legal nature.
stephenhsmith
additional info/context/fyi from the latimes…
ANKARA, Turkey (AP) — Kurdish rebels launched a rocket attack on a military vehicle near naval base in southern Turkey early Monday, killing six soldiers and wounding seven, the military said.
The rebels fired a rocket-propelled grenade at the vehicle carrying soldiers to a naval logistics base in the Mediterranean port of Iskenderun, officials said.
John Olsen
They will use nukes…that’s why they have them
Gregger
http://www.globalfirepower.com/
Looks like Turkey has Israel beat according to this website.
neil
Does Article V really apply to civilian vessels?
Ian Welsh
As I understand it, yes it does apply to civilian vessels.
Ian Welsh
If Israel pulls the nuke card and threatens Turkey, and NATO refuses to tell Israel that Turkey is under the nuclear umbrella, Turkey may just decide to leave the NPT. Turkey ain’t Iran, if it wants nukes, it can have them in a couple years, and no one can stop them short of glassing the country pre-emptively.
This is a dangerous game.
Sean Paul Kelley
Does Article V apply to civilian targets? Apparently it does, we invoked it in the aftermath of 9/11.
Hugh
I thought the Turks basically had a long history of waiting until things turned one way or the other and then jumping in on the victor side. And, uh, denial. Great history there. I’d want them on my side.
Mickey
Israel won’t half ass it, they will use nukes if needed. Turkey are the ones playing with fire here, make no mistake about it.
Saiye
This could be the opening shots of a world war! Certainly if Turkey sends the ships,Pakistan will have to send it’s submarine flotilla.And if firing breaks out ….. I hate to think what could happen,The middle east would be aflame… could even lead to a nuclear war…..Is this predicted in The Bible?
max
israel have become a nazi country which committed holocausts and is willing to take the world with it just because people wanted to offer help for the ones in the ghaza ghetto, shame on you. haven’t you learned from your lessons. the nazi negative energy just got passed to you and you became ethically more corrupt than them.
Colorado Jack
I believe Article V only applies to an attack in Europe or North America. If that’s right, then Article V doesn’t apply.
USA PATRIOT
F*CK ISRAEL..!!!!!
Rob Miller
I realize some of you are salivating at the idea of Israel getting a comeuppance and being destroyed/defeated, but here are a few facts.
One, what happened today isn’t ‘piracy’ except in some Palestinian groupie’s imagination. Blockade running is an act of war by definition. There’s no “safe” spot for blockade runners, in international waters or otherwise. Israel had no duty to wait until the ships crossed into Israeli waters.. not when these blockade runners clearly announced their intentions to violate them and set sail.
The US sank Iranian ships in the 1980’s who attempted to block the Gulf using the same rationale.I realize there are special rules that only apply to Israel and no other country, but that dog won’t hunt.
Turkey isn’t going to fight with Israel over Gaza unless Tayyip Erdogan is stupid as well as an Islamist tool. The Israelis have both air and technological superiority even without using nukes, and Turkey’s army would have to take the long route and go through Syria in order to get at the Israelis, which would mean they would be attacking through the fortified Golan Heights. (BTW, armor without air superiority equals mass tin can carnage). The Turkish Army’s chances of breaking through there are nil, and Syria is not about to let Turkey involve Syria in a shooting war with Israel…they have good memories about what happened the last few times they tried it.
Turkey still entertains hopes of getting into the EU( at least, while it’s still around) and taking on Israel would pretty much end that..nor would NATO come in on Turkey’s side. Plus, the Turks have their own internal political and economic problems.
Anything can happen, but I doubt Erdogan is going to send the Turkish navy to attack Israel unless he really does want a shooting war. I don’t think he does. Plus, if you read your history, Turkey and Iran are historic antagonists. I doubt you’ll see them getting very close together.
-Rob-
Rob Miller
Sorry, that last sentence should have read ‘Turkey and Russia are historic antagonists.’ Mea culpa
The Pope of District 9
Colorado Jack – they were in international waters off the coast of Cyprus. That is in Europe. And Article 5 makes no distinction anyway, as to the location of the attack. This is why there has been consideration to invoking Article 5 as part of a response to Somali pirates off the coast of east Africa.
Boycott Israel
I have read that there are between fifty t 100 tactical US (NATO) nuclear weapons that are based in airbase(s) in Turkey. And I doubt that this weaponry could easily be withdrawn from these bases inside Turkish. By this measure Turkey is already in fact in the de facto possession a rather large nuclear arsenal — even if the bombs were disabled the fissile materials (along with the indubitable technical and scientific know how that the Turkish state has indigenous within its borders) could enable Turkey to re-constitute this arsenal into a Turkish nuclear deterrent.
beowulf
Colorado Jack, you realize that the North Atlantic Treaty isn’t a classified document, its available to read in multiple languages.
Article VI(1)
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America… on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories… or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm
Dusty
I would send another aid ship with at least 3 war ships to protect the aid and If Israel came within 1 mile of the aid ship I would blow them out of the water. Enough of this politically correct crap
opit
Rob Miller
Nice comments, but you are ignoring the illegality of Israel’s blockade in international eyes. Admittedly, describing a blockade as an act of war is decidedly inconvenient for the U.S., which uses it with great abandon, but the North American Treaty Organization was chartered specifically to deal with threats to civilian shipping in North American waters : re the ‘Lend Lease Act’.
There’s prevarication in defense of a premise : but that one shouldn’t float.
Jim
Dear Rob Miller, I know right now you’re dead set on protecting your ego by expounding a version of reality that doesn’t violate your personal opinion. You’re not looking at objective reality but rather trying to give yourself ego satisfaction because you see things one way, and feel slighted at the notion that you might be incorrect. This is exactly why the Israelis have been able to get away with so much, because they understand human nature and manipulate it.
The Israeli/Palestinian situation is perpetuated by each sides motives and made more tense by the ensuing repercussions. The Israelis are attempting to do what the Russians have partially done in Chechnya: to either annihilate the Palestinians or pummel them into nothing worth noting. Of course the international community won’t allow this so their solution is to play against those who are anti-Semitic or extremist in order to appear as a victim. This gives them just enough room to wiggle, and allows them to continue smashing the Palestinians into the ground. The Palestinians and their Arab allies, on the other hand, are using the lives of the their people as fodder to immobilize and disrupt Israel. Don’t be fooled all those people could be saved with the right combination of efforts – but they won’t so long as it’s useful.
Sorry to break it to you Rob, but you’ve been tricked. The Israelis used your own emotions against you in order to influence you. I suppose it’s easy for most people to fall victim to such charlatanism. Don’t believe me? Stop and think for a minute about how you deliberately made an assertion you felt was correct, and then tried to find ‘evidence’ to support it.
Tyler
Let the end-games begin.
Alkis
May Islam – the mental illness of hate – be thoroughly destroyed. Fuck Islam and fuck Turkey!
Nikolai
The “blockade” was illegal to begin with, like most everything else the criminal entity does.
Time for the Turks, Syrians, Egyptians, and Iranians to converge on the illegitimate entity and rid the world of this cancer once and for all. Nobody will do a bloomin’ thing about it except celebrate. If most of the same serpents in amerika rush to defend their litter box first, then the world will be a much better place.
The bastard entity cannot outlast the Turks in a fight to the finish. If they are stupid enough to nuke any country, that will be the end of them everywhere. Americans and the rest of the world are sick and tired of its blood sucking burden.
tired of the bull
@ Rob
“One, what happened today isn’t ‘piracy’ except in some Palestinian groupie’s imagination. Blockade running is an act of war by definition. There’s no “safe” spot for blockade runners, in international waters or otherwise. Israel had no duty to wait until the ships crossed into Israeli waters.. not when these blockade runners clearly announced their intentions to violate them and set sail. “
Regardless of their intentions the flotilla had not yet attempted to break through the blockade but rather the Israeli Navy sailed out 75 miles to meet them in international waters then proceeded to fire upon them and boarded a non-military ship without permission killing civilians. You’re right to say it’s not piracy but it is state sponsored terrorism and an illegal act of war.
“The Israelis have both air and technological superiority even without using nukes..”
Bullsh*t. Turkey is a NATO member and as such has F-16’s, F-15’s, Harriers, AWACS, cruise missiles and Patriot Missile defenses as well as access to satellite guidance and communications. If Turkey decided to go to war with Israel the nuclear option is the only option for Israel to win.
In short, check your facts before posting such drivel.
Tom Lowe
Colorado Jack, you are flat 100% wrong and you should research what you state before making such a fool of yourself.
Zeroman
The extent that we impose our will on another is the exact gauge of our own enslavement. Imposition is done by impostors attempting the impossible. All the political/religious bullshit of the last ten thousand years has festered into the most wonderful fertilizer for new growth and awareness. Navel and air battles are becoming obsolete as a 2 billion dollar carrier can be taken out by a 10 k dollar missile. Million dollar planes succumb to a shoulder fired 3k$ shoulder fired missile.
All of the Rothchilds Kings and all of his men will never put Israel back together again. Natural law is… things that work continue… thing that don’t, won’t. Go figure…
The idea of Israel was never meant to be geography. It was and is an idea held by some as a conduit to source or spirit. If you stand the name op vertically you have El above the Ra in the middle and Is below. El is the relm of the angels… the Elohim, Ra… the Egyptian sun god or two letter word for light… Is, is.. well Isis or the full spectrum that shows up after the one light of God goes into the center of the prism and scatters into a rainbow of awareness… or, “Is” ness..
( I can hear Bill Clinton saying, “Depends on what your definition of is is…)
Israel is now going vertical.
As that great Australian philosopher Crocodile Dundee said, “Arguing over who owns the land is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog…”
Terror shares the same root as territory, and terrific.
I think the Zionist Gov. just shot themselves in the foot… lost any credibility they need to start a nuke war with Iran… This incident may have just ended WW3 not started it.
At least that’s what this bullshit has fertilized into from this POV.
We are headed for a grand Jubilee where all is understood and… forgiven.
Evo means fantastic and lution means process… Love is the answer and it’s patiently waiting in the wings… Although the Bullshit might need to smolder in the compost heap for awhile longer… I remain optimistic.
That’s my story.. and I’m stickin’ to it…
Ian Welsh
It’s not piracy, it’s an act of war to attack a foreign flagged ship in international waters. Which is to say, it’s worse than piracy.
Turkey has causus belli.
John Day
Turkey has gravity bomb nukes under their control, courtesy of Uncle Sam, so Israel can’t really play the nuclear card against PM Erdogan. Reports are that Israel tried to overthrow Erdogan in a coup in 1988,, which is why he and his group have been so pissed-off at Israel ever since.
harlequin115
Rob,
I’d like to know where you find that “blockade running is an act of war by definition.” This is patently fallacious for a number of reasons. First, only states have the ability to declare war, and this flotilla was not state-backed, so already I’m questioning your analysis. Regardless of their stated intentions, the flotilla was made up of ships flying the Turkish flag, in international waters. They were civilian, unarmed ships. Running blockades has been acceptable under international law since AT LEAST the 1860s–British ships running the Union blockade against the Confederate states were considered law abiding–they could be boarded by Union vessels and impounded, but British citizens aboard had to be treated humanely and returned home with their ships. Anything more than that would have been considered an act of war against Great Britain.
The fact is, Israel had no jurisdiction to attack the ships of an ally while in the middle of the Mediterranean. The Iranian ships sunk in the 1980s were trying to block the Gulf–effectively destroying an international trade route. This has no relation to ships trying to run a blockade. And in any case, Iran was hardly an ally–Turkey and Israel are (or at least, were). Now, I certainly agree with you that it would not be in Turkey’s best interests to start a war with Israel, but the Israelis have certainly pushed them towards it. I am far from certain that the United States will back Israel to the extent that it loses NATO–NATO is far more beneficial to US interests than its alliance with Israel. There won’t be a war, but if Turkey pushes, and is attacked by Israel, prepare to see more significant responses by the US to placate Turkey–the NATO charter calls for “such action as it [the attacked Party] deems necessary” in Article 5, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the US consider cutting military assistance to Israel if necessary.
If that happens, expect to see a new government in Israel three days later.
John Day
Oops, time traveling again. The attempted coup was 2008.
Bob Smith
This is going to be the turning point we have all been waiting for. Israel will be forced to try to placate the Turks but will, when directly provoked, go full guns against them and use their power in the media and their military power to smash the Turks. This will draw Russia in, and they will not hesitate to “shock and awe” the state if Israel. It is time for that shitty little country to come down to size and be recognized as the rogue terrorist state it really is.
For my part, I think wiping Israel military and nuclear capability off the face of the earth so that they can no longer wage war and terror on their neighbors is the solution. Hell, let’s make it preemptive. Thanks to the US for the precedent.
Hugh
Dear Jim:
That note to Rob could be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Love
Hugh
Hugh
Dear Bob Smith:
You were doing fine until you wrote
“It is time for that shitty little country to come down to size”
and revealed your inferiority complex. It’s textbook, baby.
Inez
“I realize some of you are salivating at the idea of Israel getting a comeuppance and being destroyed/defeated,”
Oh yeah? You do? A “comeuppance” eh?
You are quite incorrect mr. r. miller. To say the least. What “some of you” want is for Israel the BeaST’s hand-maiden… to STOP torturing, pillaging, genociding, sodomizing, harvesting body parts, murdering, stealing, lying, raping, breaking international laws, and continuing to do as IT likes in and TO our people and our world.
After that paragraph there was no need to read any further.
An American Patriot
Bob Smith
I was just repeating a phrase used and jumped on by Barbara Amiel indignantly when she heard the phrase coming from the French ambassador’s wife at a party. I sounds perfect as a description. As far as ‘my inferiority complex’ is concerned, I don’t see how the use of that statement applies. But you cannot always count on responders making smart or witty comments.
Bob Smith
Oh – and by the way Hugh – byte me! LOL
Bravo
first, i don’t think this will lead to a hot war at the moment, but if this conflict doesn’t resolve fast, it almost certainly will soon. israel is used to dealing with third rate arab armies, and lately, primitive terror groups like hamas; they got whipped against a well-trained militia like hezbollah. but now they pretty much made an enemy of turkey, and that is going to be a game changer.
turkey has a first world military and the third largest force in NATO. it has one of the largest and most sophisticated navies in the world, certainly larger then israel’s, it can launch a massive sea assault. and yeah, israel has air superiority, but turkey’s AF isn’t anything to sneeze at; they would be able to cover their armor and troop divisions as they moved into syria. there will be heavy causalities, but those will be far more traumatic and devastating for israel. plus, israel only has the resources to fight very limited wars; it has limited access to oil and it can only supply its reserves for 3 months max.
there is no question in my mind (and if you look at many israeli commentary, they’d agree): if this was a straight up conventional war, israel would lose.
the nuke question is always on the table, but the real issue is the US. the US would rather sink NATO, and endanger it’s own troops stationed in turkey and the rest of the ME, then abandon a war-crazed israel. and turkey, and the rest of the world, knows this. but as american power wanes in the ME, and as america becomes weaker, the turks or whoever else will see an opening and it will be bye bye israel.
as someone commented upthread, turkey can very easily get nukes, and really instead of russia, they could in the meantime actually get nuclear protection from a old ally like pakistan. pakistan’s missiles can hit israel’s; someday they might just tell israel that if they go nuclear on turkey or any other islamic country, they’d get wiped out.
this is going to bring about a massive collosal shift in ME power relations. i wouldn’t be surprised if the turks make a defensive pact with syria and lebanon; greatly hindering israel’s ability to wage war against either of those nations. the turks are the real deal; they have a modern, sophisticated military, they have a democracy, and they are easily the most widely admired and respected nation in the muslim world.
whether it’s by war, or civil disobedience or whatever, one day very soon israel is going to end. it simply can’t sustain this.
Rob
RI was wrong, but it maks my Rabbi happy to lie for Israel.
Bob Smith
I think the biggest thing at stake here is the fact that Israel delegitimizes itself when it acts foolishly as it did attacking peaceful vessels in international waters. Admiralty law, Maritime law and Nato resolutions specifically prohibit this.
Israel is on a path to self destruction and it knows it. But their irrational belief in being the ‘chosen ones’ prevents them from seeing others (gentiles etc.) as fully human, and can invoke all sorts of Talmudic crapola to justify their actions. Like Shabra and Satilla, they are terrorists and murderers, but this time we are watching and are finally willing to respond. Here comes the tribulation.
Asante
@harlequin115;
> I’d like to know where you find that “blockade running is an act of war by definition.”
Not an act of war by definition, but see;
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994
Part 3, Section 5
“67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;”
The flotilla knew of the blockade, refused to offload their goods elsewhere (Ashdod), refused to acknowledge all requests for visitation and search, and even then were not “attacked” by soldiers who “began to shoot the moment their feet hit the deck…. fir(ing) directly into the crowd of civilians asleep” as the Free Gaza website is still stating as “fact”. And only on one ship, with no issues on the others…
Danbones
Israel sank the USS Liberty.
What happened?
Nada
Isreal tried to sell nukies to S africa.
What happened?
Israel received a couple of trillion in welfare
even though the US knew all along that it was in possesion of
nukes.
Which by US law is totally illegal.
Your dancing Israelis
what happened?
Several million innocent people got shawkinawed.
And a couple hundred thousand US troops have died of DU/vaccines/suicide etc
Israel flattened a UN observation post staffed by NATO member nationals
what happened?
Doodly.
Israel used white phosphorus on Children what happened?
Hizbola gave em the 25 cent smack down.
Israel has most politicoes and the countries they run by the shorties.
we have seen what happens when they don’t.
If they want to resort to nukes while down wind or while in range
of dirty nuke type missles, or cobalt 60 weapons,or cobalt 60 amalak…
Oh well.
More likely the whole government of turkey will have a bus crash
or a derivitive crash…
On the other hand when the banker’s crimes get to big to cover up,
as in the previous two world wars- then we get world war three…
which is maybe why the bankers created Israel in the first place…
Cocoa
Hey fools, how about WWIII, NKorea’s Kim told China that they Did’nt sink the ship… Israel said they hit their commandoes with sticks. (Just not hard enough!, I reckon) Don’t forget about the Worlds financial collapps. So War is probabaly ON, according to the stats. I sure HOPE not, But not the NOPE Barky was going to give the US.
TRUTH!!!!!!!!!
If Turkey needs my help – I’ll COMMIT!!!!!
TRUTH!!!!!!!!!
Cocoa – read the “Anglo-Saxon Mission” an interview by Project Camelot!
T. Langford
CANADIAN PEOPLE SUPPORT THE PALESTINIANS AND TURKEY !!!!
Our Government Does NOT speak For The Canadian Citizen !!
What isreal Has Done, and Has Been Doing For Years Is A Complete Disregard For Human Life…
I Guess Its True About How ‘they’ View The Goyum.
Is It Time For The Million Man Army To Go A Knocking On isreals Door?
I Think So.
kingnek
Turkish military is pretty strong, probably equal to Israel, a war would be very interesting. Also remember, Iran, Syria and Hezbollah would join that war. If Egypt has the balls, it would join, bringing in Libya and Sudan, and probably other North African states.
Other Muslim nations like Malaysia and Indonesia would send help too, so Israel would be finished in a matter of days if the Muslims unite.
TSGordon
I mean, the whole idea is to replace the Temple Mount. So, let’s get on with it, shall we?
Asante
Turkey seems to have conveniently forgotten that they enforced a huge population swap with Greece in the 1920s; to say nothing of that matter of their Armenian population…
If Israel had adopted either of those “Turkish solutions” fully in the past, rather than let the minority remain, the current situation would not exist.
Zeroman
The biggest bomb in the middle east is under Dimona. A conventional strike there is a dirty nuke. Same with any nuke power plant. A Cessna into San Onofre would lay waste to a big area for a long long time. It’s time to stand down and realize we’ve gone way too far… stop this insanity… we’ve been like 8 year olds poking a sleeping bear in the but with a stick…
Lets not forget that Depleted Uranium is a nuke… blowing cancer all over.
Anyone shooting anyone is shooting themselves. Killing another is killing yourself.
Israel’s behavior has been suicidal for a long time. Under the guise of making a safe place for the Jews they’ve actually been creating a place to sip the kool aid of
false religion and phony genetic myth’s. The Khyzarian homeland from where most sprouted from is a thousand miles to the east in the Caucasus area.
The, “Homeland myth,” is just another fairy tale. This planet is home to humans… if you can’t get along then, you’ll create a way of leaving… Hate carries a curse and love a reward. Make a choice oh chosen ones…
Marks2Much
The creation of Israel should never have been permitted. Why should one religious tribe have to have their own state? Especially when it came about as the result of displacing and terrorizing other people? Jews claim they’ve been on the receiving end of animosity and had to endure being cast from other lands for centuries. Undoubtably, there was a reason for this.
Now that they’ve got these zealous Zionists have their own country, it still isn’t good enough for them. In America, Zionist Jews control nearly all of the media, Wall Street, and Congress. The Neocons were almost all Zionist Jews. Now the world has seen and had to contend with the consequences of their presence and actions in the U.S. They’re doing the same in other countries, too.
They’re abhorrent behavior has just been for the benefit of themselves and Israel. Now, they’re pulling the world into a terrible conflagration because of their callous disregard for anyone other than themselves.
It’s time to pull the plug on Israel to make the world a safer and more peaceful place.
TSGordon
Seriously, the Navy will arrive to much more fanfare than we saw on this weekend’s buried news reports. This time they will be able to deliver both the plywood for housing (picture Brooklyn, and the Bowery, circa 1986-95,) and some baby food for the un-decapitated children.
Hillary will go on about “how much damage Israel’s neighbors have done in her efforts to bring peace,” (sorry, that’s “lasting peace,”) “to the region,” and how serious “we,” (as in, remember that awful Christmas when everyone was singing along with Michael Jackson’s “We Are The World” video?,) and not a word will be mentioned as the Russians begin a full on assault in Afghanistan against the Queen’s heroin packing & shipping operations.
[Why, not since the Indo-China War have I been so excited about the prospects of watching China take on the bloody Queen !]
..In summary, the Zionists certainly seem eager to “cull the old heard,” since the greatest proifit source in the world today is to assimilate the wealth of dead soldiers, regardless of their country of origin.
Floda
The unspeakable, murderous, gangsters who run Israel may have just fired the first shots of WW3. But if they attack Turkey with Nukes the entire World will extinguish the Israeli state and there will be a terrible revenge of the Jews the World over. Remember in the late 1930’s a number of states, including Britain and France were in favor of Germany’s suggestion in establishing a Jewish state in Madagascar and ridding Europe of Jews. I see Hitler and Goebbels in their graves laughing at us, saying, ‘see, we told you about these people’.
The Israeli shysters have succeeded in increasing anti-semitism World wide by this act of Piracy and murder on the High seas. This will have consequences in the end. Whatever else happens Israel is finished, it’s just a matter of time.
harlequin115
@Asante
“Not an act of war by definition, but see;
San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994”
That document relates only to EXISTING declared naval conflicts between States. See Part I, Section I:
“2. In cases not covered by this document or by international agreements, civilians and combatants remain under the protection and authority of the principles of international law derived from established custom, from the principles of humanity and from the dictates of the public conscience.”
Unless Israel is accepting that Gaza is a state against which Israel is actively engaged in a naval conflict, that whole argument does not apply. Moreover, Part I, Section IV states:
“12. In carrying out operations in areas where neutral States enjoy sovereign rights, jurisdiction, or other rights under general international law, belligerents shall have due regard for the legitimate rights and duties of those neutral States.” Those areas would certainly include international waters.
In short, the document does not apply, and if it did, this would still not be a legitimate use of power by the state of Israel.
chevy levy
Aide was stopped by the IDF as it will not recognise self admitted terrorist group Ham Ass. Israel reserve the right to search every Vessel for weapons sort of what Iran try to smuggle across to Hizbollah. I urge the Turkeys to be big stirrers/ tuff guys and be hooked in the mouth by G_d Himself like what is written in Revelation. The Turkeys will be in for a slap in the mouth by Israeli Subs as they travel north and sit off Turkey’s Coast with missiles aimed at them as a show of force.
OOPSTheyLLbackDOWNfasT
Like all craven cowards, the Israelis will back down and begin grovelling as soon as they realize the Turks are serious.
If they can’t get away with gleefully stamping on your face they’ll quickly turn to Option B, licking your boots!
John Robert Martino
If You want to Create World Peace, then please read and recommend ‘The Art Of Peace’ by Morehei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido (The Martial Art of LOVE) to Everyone You Know and Love.
Thank You. So Be It.
‘The Art of Peace’ is published by Shambhala Books.
mystic
The elephant in the room is the Armenian holocaust perpetrated by crypto-Jews (who else?) The Turks are very sensitive about this and because —this is “funny”–the Jews have many other genocides to account for already: The Ukrainian genocide,the Iraqi genocide was provoked by Jewish neocons based on lies, the Palestinian holocaust proven by my hero Judge Richard Goldstone,9/11 as an inside job which has been proven by Copenhagen University finding explosine nano-thermoite in the WTC dust put there by Mossad. If Israel attacks a Turkish naval warship, this would be an act of war and Russia would enter to defend Turks against the Israeli Nazi lunatics. God willing Russia would bomb Israel to smithereens.That would bring peace to the world once again. The bankrupt US with its milquetoast president who wasn’t born in this country, nor educated at Columbiua university,will find himself going to war against Russia and Turkey and possibly Brazil just for starters. Perhaps Latvia will come to the aid of the US but no one else.The UK would fight tooth and nail not to join in a world war.My fantasy would be for Russia to drop the atomic bomb on Tel Aviv and declare the end of Zionism.Like the Jews provoked Hitler into exterminating them, so they are provoking Russia to do the same, because Russia remembers how Israel armed Georgia against Russia. Ball is in your court, Putin. Smash the Zionists into oblivion. Please.
TRUTH!!!!!!!!!
READ The Anglo-Saxon Mission” …… http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/anglo_saxon_mission_interview_transcript_en.html
The “ET” invasion he refers to in this interview , besides the anglo-saxon mission, is in truth, referring to a demonic deception!!
The “Aliens” are DEMONS!!!!! Listen to this on youtube… search… “AREA 51 Frantic Caller” on the Art Bell radio show 1997…
hgf
Here is the “AREA 51 frantic caller” interview that I referred to in the above post!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee3bld4lTG0
Rabbit63
I’d very much like to think this is true, but I have my doubts at this stage. it is simply too good to be true for one thing.
If it is so, I can only wish the Turks godspeed. I’ve been trying to contact their embassy here in Oz all day to congratulate them on their leadership, humanity and courage. The numbers to them are being blocked or something. Even the number given me by Telstra information is not going through.
Australia as a country is definately on the wrong side of this one. We deserve all we get for our support of israel’s unrepentant evil, but unfortunately we will probably not suffer for it as we should. Our government has more loyalty to israel than it has to its own people.
Bruce
Jesus said if you see one who has no shoes give him yours. I invite OPEC to turn off the taps. I’m willing to give up my v8 auto. For the girl who lost her eye today.
CHECKMATE Israel
Greg
I think that Turkey should align with other Arab nations and go one better. Israel is moving three Germany built nuclear subs into the waters near Iran. Using Israel’s legal claim that it is fair to stop and board any water bound vessel in international waters, Turkey and the Arabs should confront these nuclear subs and advise them to turn back or be confronted with the militaries of the Arab nations. Turkey has the best air force in the world that can even kick the butts of the United States air force whenever war games were played out with this NATO country. Israeli should understand that an eye for an eye is the new rules of the game.
Bravo
greg, turkey’s airforce is definitely not better then the US’, brtain’s, or israel’s. cmon.
you’re being ridiculous.
Mau Mau
Stop DREAMING,Turks will be doing NOTHING! These are DRAMAS!
As far Coconut called OBAMA was Not born Kenya this PURE LIE!
There aint gonna be no war
President Rahmbo aint gonna allow a war you fools.
Chris
Israel needs reining in for sure!
If Turkey is attacked by Israel expect the whole Arab world to get up and fight too.
I pity the moderate Israelis – it is taking just a few war mongers to push things over the edge,mankind will never learn.
anthraxsleuth
Turkey, We have an alliance. It is legal.
Call me please.
I would really like to sink some fucking Isreali ships.
I’m dead serious!!!
Love,
AnthraxSleuth
Phoenician in a time of Romans
Man, the crazies are out in force for this thread. Did it get referenced at an anti-semitic site somewhere?
Nicola
First, Israelis are very brainwashed, especially soldiers. They think they protecting their country, just like American soldiers. And what this world needs is to unite and get rid of about 500 Elite who manipulate and running this world plus governments.
According insiders, Israel is running American government and Harper also signed secretly some agreements with Israel about protecting borders and gave Israel billions. Zionists Illuminati destroying USA and will start III world war if we let them. Zionists done 911.
farang
We seem to be forgetting the episode not so long aga where the Turkish ambassador walked off the set during an interview with him and the Israeli ambassador.
This isn’t a new scenario of bad relations between Turkey and Israel.
But I do see a chess move here: Turkey is saying they will protect the next flotilla with their Navy……but I hear them saying Iran faintly.
This is a pre-emptive move against the Israeli nukes off Iran this minute.
They are telling Israel: ENOUGH, FUCK YOU TOO.
Iran and Turkey have close close relations and huge trade.
And Israel damn sure ain’t gonna attack Turkey’s bases with nukes when the US is stationed there…ya dig?
Not unless they want the Sugar Uncle to cut the purse strings and let them vanish in the desert.
So Netenyahu blundered….big surprise. He is “up to here” in hubris. Time to take him and Likkud down a peg, regardless of the wannabe Israeli psychiatrists on this comment board.
So, any criticism of Israel shows a mental deficiency, right Hugh?
Textbook Megaphone.
farang
“Asante
Turkey seems to have conveniently forgotten that they enforced a huge population swap with Greece in the 1920s; to say nothing of that matter of their Armenian population…
If Israel had adopted either of those “Turkish solutions” fully in the past, rather than let the minority remain, the current situation would not exist.”
Yes, the Israeli’s should have adopted genocide as policy, great idea Asante. Irony not your forte?
To be quite clear, you have conveniently forgotten the leaders of the “Young Turks” that committed the Armenian Genocide were Jewish and contemporaries and allies of the Jewish Bolsheviks. They starved 20 million Ukrainians to death.
But to get back on subject, Turkey has checked Israel’s move of subs off Iran. Hahaha, how’s that feel, Benyamin???
You. Will. Not. Attack. Iran. Bwahahaha.
Let’s see if Israel’s MOSSAD can pull off the False Flag the US “Intelligence” agencies are screaming is “about to happen by Al-CIAda” to try to get a pre-emptive strike against Pakistan. That is the move the US/Israel axis flashed to the world this past week.
Turkey has answered. Israeli’s world-wide whine, howl and gnash their teeth. I guarantee they are cowards that will back down and run from a real military like Turkey, guaranteed. Cowards that kill infants. Cowards that kill women. Cowards with an M.O. of bombing civilian buildings and blaming it on Muslims. Cowards that will run when faced by MEN.
Don’t worry: if you go to war with Turkey (the most feared of the allies of US in Vietnam, ask a US Army vet), we’ll send you our USSC, Senate, Congress Fed officials and TBTF Banksters and their lawyers to back you up, they LURVE them some Israel.
I’ll pay Rahm’s airfare myself, first class.
Jason
mystic packed into one post pretty much every conspiracy theory except the moon landing.
Well done, sir.
Jim
Greece should form an alliance with Israel. Turkey is a rogue Muslim state that aspires to become a superpower. It is no more reliable an ally for the West than Iran or Pakistan. Too bad Greek commandos don’t do similar to Turkish terrorists that invade Hellenic territory.
Walter E. Haas
Turkey is a proud nation and was ruler of eastern Roman Empire.Jews have
been in Turkey since 4 Cent AD?Israel was number one trading partner with Turkey.
Turkey allowed Israel military exercises in its territory.This ended as result of Israel comments about who is in charge-etc.Who owns the U.N.. A lady commented the U.N. should be in Israel?Who owns UN-EU-NA-ASIA-etc?
Turks
not playing when they make statements.Yes the secret power of the world makes people change their tune.Obama keeps changing his tune for NWO?
2012 comes fast.Status quo is tied up with Israel.Turkey is on the ropes with EU
as partner.
It is the nature of nature to play tricks which can’t be predicted that bring down fall to the mighty.There is always one out of line that plays with loaded deck unknown.Israel has been playing a bluff hand with the full deck.Its does not
realize there is extra wild card that will sooner are later trump.
Some entity will sooner or later call Israels hand.Israel may get big surprise as
cards may fall where they should not.The cat may be out of the bag with allot
of kittens???
Walter E. Haas Search Yahoo-Google.com.God Bless America
donkey_shot
calm down people, this is simply not going to happen: there is not a chance in a million that anyone, not even erdogan, would risk war with israel for righteousness` sake!
on the other hand, if you are turkey and TALK about doing something like this, the worldwide propaganda effect will be HUGE! just see, for a tiny sample, the comments on sites such as this one…
plus, standing up to israel means standing up to the united states…so sorry, but dream on…
charlotte jones
http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/
a source that indicates that Israel was indeed, within legal bounds when it boarded the boat last night.
According to the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea, 12 June 1994:
SECTION V : NEUTRAL MERCHANT VESSELS AND CIVIL AIRCRAFT
Neutral merchant vessels
67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:
(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture;
(b) engage in belligerent acts on behalf of the enemy;
(c) act as auxiliaries to the enemy s armed forces;
(d) are incorporated into or assist the enemy s intelligence system;
(e) sail under convoy of enemy warships or military aircraft; or
(f) otherwise make an effective contribution to the enemy s military action, e.g., by carrying military materials, and it is not feasible for the attacking forces to first place passengers and crew in a place of safety. Unless circumstances do not permit, they are to be given a warning, so that they can re-route, off-load, or take other precautions.
NOTE: the San Remo Manual is not a treaty, but considered by the ICRC to be reflective of customary law.
Israel’s boarding of the Gaza flotilla was certainly an example of #67 section A. The Captain of one of the boats told the IDF that they intended to “run the blockade” And the video evidence shows that Israel did indeed give the flotilla a warning and asked them to re-route to an Israeli port.
Also, on piracy: the definition of piracy under the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, section 101, is clear that piracy can only occur where there are “illegal acts of violence or detention” that are “committed for private ends.” Israeli actions were legal under the law of armed conflict (as evidenced by the San Remo Manual) and in any event, were not committed for private ends. Anyone using the term piracy to describe the Israeli action is clearly not aware of international law on the subject.
Here’s the bottom Line:
A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.
Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.
A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.
The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.
In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.
Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.
Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.
A State may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander’s Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.
Note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.
Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel’s intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.
Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.
Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the “protesters” and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.
charlotte jones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade
Read the last one.
Historical blockades:
On the blockade off San Juan, Puerto Rico in 1898 during the Spanish American War
* During the Peloponnesian War (431 BC–404 BCE), Spartan forces surrounded Athens on land. Athens withstood the landward attack, and subsisted on food imported by ship. After the battle of Aegospotami, Sparta also blockaded Athens by sea, and Athens surrendered.[9]
* When Alexander the Great sought to take the city of Tyre in 332 BCE, he first blockaded the city for several months.
* 1394 to 1402 Ottoman blockade of Constantinople.[10]
* The Dutch Republic’s blockade of the Scheldt from 1585–1792, denying Spanish-ruled Antwerp’s access to international trade and shifting much of its trade to Amsterdam.
* British blockade of France and its allies during the French Revolutionary War and Napoleonic War.
* British blockade of the United States east coast during the War of 1812.
* Danish blockade of Germany during the First Schleswig War, starting in 1848.
* Union Blockade: the Union blockaded the coasts of the Confederacy during the American Civil War.
* Battle of Iquique during the War of the Pacific.
* 1897 Blockade of Constantinople by the Great Powers.[11]
* In 1898, the United States blockaded San Juan, Puerto Rico as part of the Spanish American War.
* British naval blockade of Germany during World War I.
* 1915-1918 Ottoman blockade of Lebanon.[12]
* The Second Battle of the Atlantic during World War II.
* United States blockade of Japan during the Pacific War of World War II.
* Soviet land blockade of West Berlin, 1948–1949, known as the Berlin Blockade.
* Egyptian blockades of the Straits of Tiran prior to the 1956 Suez War and the 1967 Arab-Israeli War.
* United States blockade of Cuba since the Cuban missile crisis in 1962, and never ended.
* Indian blockade of East Pakistan during the 1971 Bangladesh War
* Egyptian blockade of Israel during Operation Badr, part of the Yom Kippur War.
* NATO blockade of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia 1993-1996 during Operation Sharp Guard.
* Israeli sea and land blockade of the Gaza Strip since the outbreak of the Second Intifada (2000) up to the present.
* Israeli blockades of some or all the shores of Lebanon at various times during the Lebanese Civil War (1975–1990), the 1982 Lebanon War and the 1982-2000 South Lebanon conflict — resumed during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict.
* Israeli and Egyptian blockade of the Gaza Strip, beginning in June 2007.[13]
* Turkey and Azerbaijan blockades on Armenia during the Nagorno-Karabakh War
Bob the Aussie
From an Aussie patriot GO TURKEY F**K Israel
Ron
Though I’m no fan of Israel and it’s political grip on the increasingly degenerate western world, I’m really disheartened by the turk-lovers here. Somebody stated that Turkey is a proud nation that ruled the eastern Roman empire. True, and if Europeans and white people in general weren’t such spineless pussies, and a bit more like the Turks and muslims and had a sense of outrage, they would have paid Turkey back by now and reclaimed European Constantinople from the asiatic muslim turk, who in his audacity, aspires to swamp Europe again by becoming a member of the EU. Erdogan’s administration is islamist to the core and he and his foreign minister have repeatedly made oral and written statements indicating they clearly aspire to revive their dominance over the Balkans as part of a general neo-Ottoman policy. The turkish minorities in the Balkans are a 5th column in the truest sense of the word, with Turkey supplying them with funds to build madrasses, mosques, islamic schools, and in general fostering an air of separatism in whichever country they find themselves in Europe, while coming down hard on Kurds and anybody else in Turkey who think of themselves as anything other than turkish. This attempt by the Turks to look “humanitarian” is such a cynical joke coming from people who imposed blood taxes on the people of the Balkans for 5 centuries and raped and murdered the small Balkan states with impunity. I hope Israel does nuke Turkey, and that Russia nukes Israel as a result. That would be my dream come true.
Cat Callahan
Read the Talmud! It says that the Virgin Mary was a whore and Jesus a bastard who is now boiling in excrement! Now read the Koran. It says that the Virgin Mary was a virtuous woman who was assumed into Heaven and that Jesus was a great prophet! As a Christian, I much more appreciate the Islamic view of Christianity than the Jewish one. Also, the Bible Codes say Netanyahu will rule ‘in the end of days.’ And last fact: Jews want to rebuild the temple for their own messiah who is not Jesus Christ, but who is the Masonic God-Lucifer! Jesus, himself, warned the Jews that they would reject him, but welcome the one who comes in the name of the strange god who worships fortresses. The anti-Christ will rule from Jerusalem. There is much more to this and I suggest that you check out Patrick Heron’s latest ebook-on sale for $5 and very revealing!
Otto Kretschmer
In terms of submarines, Turks have the upper hand. They operate more German-designed submarines than Germany itself (Turkey is the biggest customer of HDW in the world):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_209_submarine
If there’s one field in which Turkey is clearly stronger, it’s the Navy. In terms of the Army, the sheer numbers of the Turks make a lot of difference, especially in terms of howitzers and artillery rockets.
Israel has a slight edge in terms of Air Force, not perhaps in numbers (they are equal) but in terms of air superiority jets (F-15) while the Turkish AWACS (Boeing 737 AEW&C MESA Peace Eagle) aren’t fully operational yet (they are way more high-tech than Israel’s outdated Phalcon AWACS though.) Turkey has better tanker aircraft (KC-135R-CRAG Stratotanker, versus the old 707 tankers of Israel.)
Israel has the edge in terms of ballistic missiles and missile defense shield, but is a very small country, which is a major disadvantage (a few successful missile hits are enough to finish Israel, while Turkey is a rather large and long (east-to-west) country.)
Ron
Muslim crazies, jewish crazies, and christian crazies babbling about the anti-christ and the end times are all suffering from the same degenerate disease- semitic monotheistic fanaticism.
Xi Chin
Ron: No, just Jewish craazies. it was not Muslim’s who just brutally pirated a humanitarian aid flotilla sailing under the flag of a NATO member. No, Ron, it was a bunch of Jews who did that.
Let’s stop this charade of “half a dozen of one, six of the other”. Sometimes, it is the case that one side is more deeply in the wrong than the other. With Isreal, this is the case through and through.
Sabrina
Great comment Xi Chin.
It’s so rare for someone to actually say that, it’s always the “both sides are equally to blame ” nonsense that I hear. As if one could put on equal footing one of the most dangerous rogue state VS an indigenous population who is merely resisting an illegal occupation.
Such behaviour was not tolerated in apartheid South Africa, why the obvious double standard regarding Israel?
Xiao Ma
It is not Turkey it is and always was the Jews.
Let us not forget that Hitler himself was a Jew under his own Laws.
This is just another move for world destruction, i.e. Lucifer’s great plan to destroy the world.
Why?
God = Alien.
And it is the Anunaki Race Anu= the Sun = the children of the Sun.
Time to wake up and destroy the Freemasons for they are behind all this.
Time to wake up because they have no power over us if we say NO!
Time to wake up and realize that all Governments are Jewish Freemason Pawns.
But their power is nothing compared with our power.
Let’s change this world for good.
Olie
Israel has lost credibility with their Nazi mentality. The way they handled the aid ships approach to Gaza while in international waters is just the latest in a long string of typical aggressive Zionist behavior. We must never forget the holocaust … of Jenin, Sabra, Shatila, and of all the others.
Fani Yama
Peace !
If we have to stand right, just learn what jews did in whole of their history, how they fired most wars in the world, since then; and for more proof just read the last testament Holly Qur’an.
Brotherly.
paul
If only Turkey could rid the world (especially the US) of Israel. What a wonderful world it would be.
John Cooper
Just another step along the path to global tyrrany and domination
sponsored by The Rothschild Dynasty and their Ashkenazi friends.
wynyardman
Michael McSpadden
How easy it is for us that have not had to endure the daily rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza to condemn Israel’s right to defend its self and its people. Why is that during the Hamas attacks from Gaza that the PA authorities condemned the attacks over and over but failed to make even one arrest in an attempt to stop them. Israel put up with the never ending rocket and mortar attacks for a very long time while they asked for help from the UN and NO ONE lifted a finger except to provide the Hamas with more money to buy the weapons with. Maybe if we the world had listened to Israel in the first place this would not have happened. If I was Israel I would list the blockade of the Gaza. The results would be obvious. The attacks would restart from Hamas almost immediately. Then I would bomb the place flat.
Minnie
Ah, yet another Jew-hater forum… Yes, the poor ‘peace’ flotilla — um — except those on board were chanting “[Remember] Khaibar, Khaibar, oh Jews! The army of Muhammed will return!” — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded
In case you don’t know, that’s an Islamic battle cry invoking killing of Jews.
‘Peace’ activists on flotilla beating Israeli soldiers with metal pipes — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&has_verified=1
The lies of Jenin — http://www.peacewithrealism.org/pdc/jenin.htm
But, no worries — the left-wing anti-Israel media will all be on the side of the Islamist propagandists as per usual.
Rabbit63
Hey all you Zionist scumbag supporters, just one thing I want to say to you all.
FUCK YOU.
You are a vile pack of deranged fuckwits who truly don’t even deserve to call yourselves human. Your cause is untenable and it becomes more so every week. Israel is a fake state, nothing but an ongoing military adventure and it is populated by psychopaths and godless self worshipping demons in human skin.
Zionist supporters are the worst virus to strike humanity after the worst parasites which it appears would be the Jews in general.
Nobody wished you harm you bastards, they just wanted you to stop harming them. Since you cannot do this, you have invited your own destruction and I sincerely believe that total eradication of “Israel” and of Jews the world over will be the inevitable result of your insane fake state antics. The time has now come when nothing but defeat is ahead of you. You will never gain another supporter, not a single one and from now on, ignorance of the truth of ISRAHELL will not be an option for the majority of ISRAHELL supporters. Thus whereas the vile Zionist infested media once could guarantee ISRAHELL the support by default of all who only knew their lies and propaganda, soon only the willfully ignorant, aka ZIONISTS will buy the bullshit. The clock is ticking scumbags, and with every tick another second less of time left for your disgusting satanic project.
Israel and the phony Jews who populate it, Zionism and the satanically deluded scum who adhere to it, FUCK YOU!
When your vile mistake of a state is history, I will be a happy rabbit. I will rejoice along with all the good and gentle and worthy souls. Finally I realise why the meek will inherit the earth as it becomes obvious how badly the arrogant and vicious are about to lose.
FUCK YOU arrogant demonic scum.
John Cooper
Michael,
Israel…..Whose land is it?
holocaustralian
To Rabbit63……..
Yep, that just about sums it up.
These fuckers have it coming………good and hard !!
Rabbit63
Oh Michael McSpadden the HASBARAT, a few facts for you to mull over. I see you loyally spreading you disgusting Zionist lies and therefore I shall just stoop to correct your dribbling Jewish hatred.
* In 7 years and a total of 8,000 rockets, (ALL FIRED AS RETALIATION FOR WORSE ISRAELI AGGRESSIONS) 20 israelis have been killed and most of them soldiers or illegal settlers. In that time more israelis died from bee stings or from peanut allergies. I have put on professional fireworks displays with more actual risk and firepower than those 8,000 mostly war head-less rockets.
* As a comparison Rothschildlandia hurled 1.5 million tons of bombs and missiles at Gaza, a crowded city in just two weeks at Christmas of 2008, and they killed more women and children in that time, than have been killed in israel by Palestinian RESISTANCE in the history of the horrible fake state of israel.
Now Mikey back to that cowardly israeli Christmas terrorism.
Israel never observed the cease-fire of 2008 to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a “special security zone” within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law. Nice eh?
Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others. Got that shithead? Rothschildlandia launched an air attack against Gaza, on November 4th. I suppose your Zionist infested media forgot to highlight that fact whislt they were stuffing your empty head full of bullshit eh? Do you know that the israeli foreign affairs site actually confirmed that Hamas was observing the ceasefire up till this time? Ironic given israel never observed it at all I’d say.
Israel’s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December was used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but was a direct response to the Israeli attacks.
Israel unilaterally broke the recent truce by an armed incursion on 4 November, which killed several Hamas men. In retrospect, this action must be seen as a deliberate attempt to provoke Hamas into a violent response, and thus provide Israel with a casus belli.
Hamas has recently shown signs of moderation. Its key spokesmen — including Khaled Mish‘al, head of its political bureau — have expressed their readiness to accept a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. To Israel’s dismay, they have begun to distance themselves from the movement’s 1987 charter, which calls for Israel’s destruction.
Its pretty simple Mikey, the Hasbarat bozoid. You just need to have the GOD given HUMAN power of logic and answer the following questions truthfully. Something Zionists are genetically incapable of doing presumably.
Who is the occupier? Who is the most powerful military force? Who controls and blocks the necessities of life? Who has sent raiding missions across the border most often? Who has sent artillery shells and missiles at close range into populated areas? Who has refused the repeated comprehensive peace offerings of the Arab countries issued in 2002 if Israel would agree to return to the 1967 borders and agree to the creation of a small independent Palestinian state possessing just twenty two percent of the original Palestine?
For centuries, Torah-observant Sephardic Jews and Palestinians had lived happily together, helping each other out when needed, as good neighbors do. Then came the Ashkenazi Jews, with their forged dollars, their bombs, their assault rifles, their Babylonian Talmud, their Kabbalist Rabbis, their wicked hearts filled with hatred and violence. And so began the Palestinian holocaust. Sixty years of land theft, murder, rape, pillage, psychological trauma, false flag operations and Jewish terrorism.
Also, Mikey, like I said before, FUCK YOU. Say hi to Satan when he sits you on your knee.
Azarkhan
” They have a huge armored corp, and the nations between Israel and Turkey aren’t going to say no if Turkey asks for access ”
Who is this dope Ian Welsh? As if the Syrian government would simply allow thousands of armed Turks into its country.
Why aren’t Muslims overjoyed about the 9 dead. Aren’t the dead already in paradise with 72, or 150, or 2,000 virgins? You know, I was never clear as to what martyred women get. 90 virgin men?
Ian Welsh
Time to close comments on this post. Thanks everyone for commenting, if you stick around in future threads, please remember that when you disagree with each other, to do so without calling each other names.