I don’t have a ton to say about the riots and protests in Iran. But what I do think is important is how the regime has destroyed its own legitimacy by killing people on Ashura, when Hussein was killed. Such killing is strictly forbidden, and even the Shah didn’t kill people on Ashura.
In an Islamic Republic doing such a thing is a violation of the legitimacy of the government itself. And Iranians are still close enough to their revolution, and brave enough personally, that doing so matters (unlike wholesale violation of the US constitution or widespread vote theft in America, for example, which is meaningless because most Americans don’t actually care enough to get violent about it.)
It is also interesting to note that the same thing is happening here that happened to Shah — cycles of mourning at funerals keep things at a fever pitch. The more people the government kills, the more mourning there is to be done, the more mourning, the more opportunities for protests and riots. And since those mourning rituals and funerals are a big deal culturally and religiously, trying to suppress them increases the illegitimacy of the state.
And the Iranians are getting hardcore, they burned down a police station, for example.
I don’t know how this is going to play out. But, one way or the other, I admire people who are willing to fight.
CTuttle
Aloha, Ian…! Long time no see…! You nailed it with this…!
(unlike wholesale violation of the US constitution or widespread vote theft in America, for example, which is meaningless because most Americans don’t actually care enough to get violent about it.)
Keep up the good work…! I won’t be a stranger…! *g*
bmaz
Yep, I think this is about right.
Celsius 233
I wonder how much we’re involved with this? I’d bet a lot we’re stirring this pot; fomenting the unrest.
I do find it remarkable that the police have killed during Ashura as well; what can the government possibly be thinking? One guess is it’s a measure of their fear and desperation at the continued destabilizing over the last year.
I’d sure like to see Americans this passionate again; but those of us who went to the streets in the 60’s and 70’s are dying out and apparently taking the passion with us…
Celsius 233
Just had a thought; is America still going through all the PC bullshit about anger? Now there’s behavior manipulation; very scary…very scary indeed. Can’t even show legit anger without getting arrested, god I’m glad I got out.
anonymous
While I’m on the side of the demonstrators, I can’t see what good it will do them. And since the punditutes on teevee love this stuff so much, it makes me want to slap the mess out of their self satisfied faces, even though I don’t watch teevee. I hear about Iranian demonstrators, and I just want to bitchslap someone. Funny how if these types of demonstrations happened under Bush, our ruling class would have crapped their pants in fear and outrage. I think if the left (rather than the teabaggers) protested like that against Obama, that would probably turn them into poo pants punditutes also.
Celsius 233
anonymous;
While I’m on the side of the demonstrators, I can’t see what good it will do them.
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Hmm, don’t you now? That is precisely Americas problem; no guts, no glory, no change!
Ian Welsh
Might work for them, might not. Last time, in 79, it did work for them. Americans, living in one of the world’s strongest and most effective security states (at putting down its own population, not at protecting it) assume that such protests are pointless, of course.
Also because Americans have been whipped into learned helplessness, not that that’s entirely irrational.
If you don’t try you won’t succeed, that’s rule #1. If you do try you may still fail, of course. Those who risk nothing, however, get nothing.
anonymous
My point wasn’t that they shouldn’t try. It’s like the Dallas Cowboys. I don’t know shit about the team, but I hate their fans.
But yes, after 8 years of “free speech zones” and seeing the huge antiwar rallies almost completely ignored in the media (I’m from DC, where big marches are routine, and even I was impressed), while the teabagger fringes get nonstop press, I have to conclude the only means to change left to Americans are violent ones. And when I look around at my fellow Americans, I have to conclude they are not worth it.