hate the occupy wall street folks is simple: they have bypassed the old left leadership. The old left is not making any money off this, is not leading it, so they hate it because it challenges them.
The old left exists to bring in money and keep paying themselves. This is as true of union leadership as it is of the majority of environmental organizations. The leadership of almost all of these organizations is deeply corrupt. All they care about is whether they can fundraise off of something. If they can’t, they despise it. They will, and do, regularly sell out of the interests of their own supposed constituents, in order to make their personal lives easier, to get richer, and to keep hobnobbing with important people.
Movements which bypass the old left, like Occupy Wall Wall Street or Wikileaks, or Anonymous, are MORE of a threat to the old left leadership than the right wing, the Tea Party or the Republicans. Those forces are all good for the old left, they use fear of them to drive donations, and to convince their followers to vote Democratic, for which they are then rewarded with access, pats on the back and small amounts of money. A genuine left wing alternative to the old left leadership is an existential threat to them, and thus they attack them.
The Raven
Mmmm…personally, I’m glad someone is protesting. I do wish we knew who was in charge and what they wanted, however. That’s not a small thing: some group picks the times, places, and targets and I’d like to know who before I fall into line I’d like to know who I am following. Besides, if there are no leaders, there’s no way, ever, for them to be anything but a protest movement: there is no way to win.
Pepe
It’s probably better that it’s a leaderless protest at this point. It would be much easier to decapitate the movement if there was (a) leader(s).
If they had a hierarchical leadership, then they would be easier to corrupt. If there was one leader, send him to jail and the movement falls apart.
Old Lefty
Bitter much?
Been there.
Ian Welsh
Left wing leadership these days always gets smeared if it won’t be coopted. Until lefties learn to ignore smears like the BS accusations against Assange, there can be no leadership.
jcapan
This
Lisa Simeone
Video of Wall Street Pigs at the Trough Drinking Champagne and Mocking Protesters Below:
http://wonkette.com/453955/heres-the-video-of-those-wall-streeters-drinking-champagne-above-the-protest
Petro
Enjoy the champs while you can. I see the fear on your face.
Chris Hedges: The Best Among Us
BDBlue
Yes, like so many other events in recent years, this moment has been very informative about who can and should be trusted and who should not. It’s also kind of fun watching all of the lefty leadership – which has spent most of the last couple of decades FAILing upward – run to try to catch up. I suspect they’ll try to take over, but I’m not sure that’s going to be as easy as they think it will be because I think the people of OWS are actually much more organized and know what they want to do than the criticism of them gives them credit for.
I also wonder about the Oct. 6th event in DC and whether it will be hampered by the kind of lefty leadership you’re talking about Ian or whether it will also break out and break away, inspired in part by OWS. These things can be – but aren’t always – contagious.
Lisa Simeone
I’m on the steering committee for the October occupation. There is no way in hell this has anything to do with any “lefty leadership.” We want nothing to do with the Democrats or their lackeys, they aren’t invited, they aren’t speaking, they aren’t a part of this. Ditto for cocktail party liberals. This is a people’s movement. Look at the website; then you tell me:
http://october2011.org
Lisa Simeone
P.S. And the October occupation has been in the works for a year, long before Occupy Wall Street. Several of our members have been to OWS, will continue to be there up until October 6th, and we’re proud that OWS issued a statement of solidarity with us.
Petro
I hold out hope that pride-in-pedigree in the Oct. events will not impede a full-throated endorsement and loving embrace of late developments.
lambert strether
Here is a classic example of the old left reacting to an existential thread. Oddly, or not, comments are now closed.
Petro
@lambert – very sad to see from maha. 🙁
Rubber’s hitting the road, for sure.
Ché Pasa
The Raven:
It’s a participatory process; participants participate, they don’t follow. The ultimate group is the whole, through participation in the working groups and the General Assemblies. It’s not easy, it takes a long time, and there are many frustrations along the way. Tensions certainly rose today, and they will again. Even so…
For a movement that can’t win, ever, they’re doing surprisingly well. More and more individuals and groups are expressing solidarity, more and more Occupations are self-organizing all over the country (and globally) every day.
Patience is a virtue.
Watch live: http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution
Find an occupation near you: http://occupytogether.org
Organization: http://nycga.cc/groups/
Participate:
Proposed List of Demands: https://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/
Principles of Solidarity: http://nycga.cc/2011/09/24/principles-of-solidarity-working-draft/
As Ian says,
Celsius 233
It sounds as though the labor unions may get involved; could be a game changer, no?
Jamal
I enjoy your writing, but I think you’re reaching here on this explanation. The reaction to the Occupy Wall Street folks is just visceral: they look like a bunch of twenty-somethings who badly need a shower and a sense of fashion. I’m broadly sympathetic with their political beliefs, but let’s be honest: would you rather be a clean-shaven dude sipping champagne in a suit and tie or a scraggly-looking character screaming and yelling in the middle of the street? If anything, the visual element of the protests detracts from gathering support for their message, especially to your average middle-class voter who isn’t necessarily a fan of Wall Street.
BlizzardOfOz
Going to occupy LA on Sat … I never really thought a protest would be useful, but shit is just so ridiculous now, this seems promising. Wall Street criminals literally stealing from working people and using the money to buy “our” reps.
BlizzardOfOz
@Jamal I just have to laugh at that… seriously, one of the legacy parties pays you, right? “Yeah I hate Wall Street but these protesters are simply not well coiffed … ew. Wake me up when the protesters are Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein.”
Jamal
@BlizzardOfOz: Na man, it’s just some real talk. If you were trying to pick up a woman which group would you try to look like? It’s not about looking like Lloyd Blankfein; it’s about having pride in your physical appearance and not looking like a bum.
Bill H.
I think that “Occupy Wall Street” is well intentioned, and I applaud their sentiment, but I think they are firing at the wrong target. They are all ticked off at Wall Street for buying off the government and taking advantage of government policies, when they should be “Occupying Washington” and directing their anger at the government which allowed itself to be bought off and which created the policies that enriched Wall Street. Republicans were not alone in the “campaign contribution” and deregulation game.
But Wall Street is where Obama and the Democrats have been pointing their collective finger of blame, so that is where protesters direct their anger.
Celsius 233
Jamal PERMALINK
September 30, 2011
“If anything, the visual element of the protests detracts from gathering support for their message, especially to your average middle-class voter who isn’t necessarily a fan of Wall Street.”
==================================
What an amazing statement. The “visual element”?
Just whom do you think is on the streets protesting; Hart, Schaffner and Marx? CEO’s of Wall-street?
It’s the people; and the people don’t dress in 3 piece suits.
But you know this, yes?
Celsius 233
Bill H. PERMALINK
September 30, 2011
…They are all ticked off at Wall Street for buying off the government and taking advantage of government policies, when they should be “Occupying Washington” and directing their anger at the government…
=========================
But, but…
October 6th; it begins…
jcapan
After Jamal’s first comment, I thought ‘poorly-executed satire.’ Now…
And Bill, why not both? 300 million Americans–plenty to surround the oligarchy’s nerve center as well as the Capitol & WH. Though we may have to hit up Goodwill for some leisure suits lest middle America be put off by our slovenly attire or hygeine.
Karl
Jamal and “lambert strether” are like The Bobbsey Twins… too fancy for real change; too concerned with appearance and “culture.”
That dude (or chick) who names him(her)self after a Henry James character… useless… self-impressed PowerNoggin putz.
The Raven
“The ultimate group is the whole, through participation in the working groups and the General Assemblies”
Thank you for the reply and the links.
The bit I quoted sounds old left. Real old left: anarchist. But your proposed demands are those of social democrats: you would not be radical enough for those old-time anarchists. I like what I see in the platform, by the way. (By the way, it is wider than my screen: please fix the formatting.)
If you’re going to win, sooner or later, there have to be leaders who can negotiate with your opposition. If you can make mass direct democracy work, more power to you…but I doubt you can. And without mass direct democracy there has to be representation, with all the problems inherent in it.
Nonetheless. So far, you are the only US left opposition I have seen that is actually attracting mass support, you are out there doing the work, and I wish you well.
Lisa Simeone
This is so fucking stupid I hardly know where to begin.
Listen, you supposed hipster know-it-all hiding behind a internet moniker, I’m 54 years old, I’ve been an activist all my life, and my sense of style would leave you in the dust. It’s bad enough we hear shit not only from rightwing racists and thieves and leftwing cowards and quislings, but also from, on the one hand, feminists who scoff at delight in fashion and beauty, and on the other, people like you who make stupid statements about the fact that not everyone can afford to dress “nicely.”
Are you aware that hundreds of people are living, eating, sleeping in the park, day in and day out?? That’s what an occupation is. Sorry if their physical appearance doesn’t meet with your sartorial standards.
BDBlue
Sorry, Lisa, no disrespect intended for the Oct. 6th event or the work that went into it. I think my sudden concern arose over hearing an otherwise awesome interview with Ted Rall (Susie Madrak on Virtually Speaking Susie, Blogtalk Radio) where he basically parroted a lot of the same complaints that we’re hearing across the lefty leadership – they aren’t organized (not true), they don’t have one demand, etc. And he said that Oct. 6th was basically nothing like that, that it was essentially a professional operation (I’m paraphrasing) with one demand – out of Afghanistan now. And at times he was so dismissive, it sounded like jealousy (and I think in addition to pay, a lot of organizers on the left are jealous of what these folks seem to be pulling off).
And what I thought when I heard that was that it’s not OWS that’s going to fail, it’s the Oct. 6th event because once you have one demand, then it’s easy to call you a failure when you don’t get it (from what I’ve read I’m not even sure it’s true Oct. 6th has only that one demand). I would’ve thought “one demand” a good idea and I’ve almost been convinced otherwise. People know why protestors would occupy Wall Street – Wall Street sucks and is the root of most of our problems – you don’t necessarily need a single demand, which the elite won’t meet, to make that point no matter what the New York Times says. Just having people there and having more people show up makes the larger point, which is something has to be done about the way the country functions with regard to its relationship with banks and capital. And, really, how do you demand that by asking for “one” thing? Because it’s so much larger than student debt or mortgage help or bailouts. It’s all of it. And even if you could get them to fix one thing, we’d still be in a mess so long as the power structure exists with Wall Street at the top.
The same thing, btw, is true of the MIC. Getting out of Afghanistan, much as I support that goal, doesn’t on it’s own do much if we’re just using the troops and resources to fight the same losing battle elsewhere. At a certain point, it’s like playing whack-a-mole.
The funny thing is that I’m actually quite looking forward to the Oct. 6th event. There’s always the risk it could fizzle, but I also think it can grow into something – just as OWS seems to be doing – and that’s a very good development.
BDBlue
And the complaints about dress are hilarious to me. Mostly because most Americans wear shitty clothes these days. It’s not the 1960s where suits at work are the norm. Most Americans are forced to buy ill-fitting, cheap, foreign made clothes and rarely wear suits. If anything, this is one of the complaints I’d welcome because I’m betting when regular people see the protestors they identify a lot more with them than they would a bunch of khaki/Polo or suit wearing people. Isn’t that how the Wall Street people dress?
Lisa Simeone
I think this demand for One Demand is a lot of hogwash. It’s perfect for spoonfeeding the corporate press, but it’s not realistic.
Wanna hear our one demand? Human Needs, Not Corporate Greed.
But that, obviously, encompasses a huge range of issues.
This country’s problems are complex. They are multi-faceted. They are interrelated. They aren’t going to be solved overnight by the fulfillment of One Demand. I’m sorry, I think this approach is childish at best and manipulative at worst.
Look at our website. See our list of 15 Core Issues and 7 key areas. The demands are embedded, and repeated, throughout.
Constantly harping on One Demand is playing into the hands of a lazy press and corrupt political system who want everything neatly tied up in a ribbon. The entire stinking mess they’ve created they now want us to fix with One Demand. Fuck that noise.
Oh, and as for leaders, we are all agreeing to disagree on this all over the movement. I believe that some people are naturally great leaders, and some aren’t. I don’t think that’s something to bemoan, I think it’s something to celebrate. Not everyone agrees with me.
Different people have different skills. Different people have different talents. Different people have different strengths. Different people have different weaknesses. I think it’s foolish not to acknowledge that.
Deborah Newell Tornello
If you were trying to pick up a woman which group would you try to look like?
Jamal, I’m enabling your distraction for a moment here because I happen to think the problem is worth addressing. Not, you understand, because I agree with you–in fact, I’d say you really, really don’t get what women are about if you think we’re attracted to the suit before the soul–but rather, because I keep hearing versions of what you’re saying in the mainstream (blogs, tv, social media) and I can detect an astroturfed meme at fifty paces.
I am a fifty-year-old white woman with a closet full of lovely suits and dresses. If I wear one of them to a protest tomorrow, will the local tv station suddenly show up and cover the event with the same number of reporters and cameramen they’d deploy to a Tea Party shout-fest wherein a dozen misguided retirees exhort our congressman to keep government out of their Medicare and a half-dozen would-be Rambos drape themselves in ammo belts and actual tea bags? Will the coverage be as breathlessly delivered, and will the core messages be as oft-repeated throughout the day and again on the evening and late night broadcasts?
I’ve seen all this before–the dismissals, the demonization, the marginalizing of anything remotely people-centric based on superficial bullshit. Oh, those hippies and their yucky long hair! Good grief, when will these idiots get a shave, get a job, get a clue. Funny how the leadership of the time–and I use the term leadership with all due irony slathered therupon–were quite happy to have the public do their dirty work for them, that is, distracting the masses from the realities of their bloody and evil agenda.
(And by the way, 22 years ago, this woman married a long-haired, jeans-wearing guy with dirt under his nails. He was smarter, wiser, more creative, more successful, and infinitely more interesting than any French-cuffed Fucker Of The Universe I’d met in my medium-long life. I suppose you could call that a successful pickup.)
jo6pac
Thank You Lisa
Mandos
The old left hates Occupy Wall Street? Huh. Hardly more than a month out of Merka and I’m now completely behind the curve. For a moment I thought you guys were talking about something like this but after that Mahablog thing I see that you were not.
Bill H.
No dispute on why the elites dislike the “Occupy Wall Street.” Same reason the Republican elites dislike the “Tea Party,” and the old bull dislikes the young bull. We might want to note that the young bull always prevails in the long run.
To “jcapa,” sure, both. Both deserve it. But Wall Street cannot prevent governmental malfeasance, while government can prevent Wall Street malfeasance, so I would consider Washington to be the more impotant target. Instead, the protesters are being guided by Washington, by Obama’s finger pointing and “tax the rich” and “pay their fair share” rhetoric, which is diversion, to see Wall Street as the enemy and to aim their anger away from Washington. So his diversion is successful and anger, while not misdirected excatly, is diverted from Washington.
Okay, to some degree Wall Street could prevent government malfeasance by withholding money, but that argument is a bit weak. Money is like water and always seeks the lowest point.
Shoes4Industry
Unfortunately, unless they take up arms and forcibly demand accountablity for crimes committed by the corporatocracy, they will never be taken seriously by the MSM or anyone in power. Violence is never the solution, unless it’s they only one left.It will start getting cold and the holiday shopping season will be starting soon, so they better pick up the pace.
barrisj
It is of interest of course that many who condemn the OccupyWallStreet movement couch their disapproval in the tired “dirty fucking hippies” sort of putdown, just crowds of unwashed anarchists causing trouble and “casting all ‘progressives’ in disrepute”…or variations on the theme. The real objection is that this may become the much-feared mass movement that may redound upon Obama’s re-election chances by connecting the dots for the “low-information” voter to show that both parties are of a piece, and neither gives a shit about the interests of the people. Okay, this isn’t exactly a Tahrir Square moment, but neither was the mass demos in Wisconsin to protest Walker’s crush-the-labour-movement policies. But, all of these street protests have one principal function: to raise the consciousness of the masses, and even if these public acts are ignored by the MSM, the Net is bursting with activity, and it is indeed a [possibility that these protests will go viral to the extent of producing a mass movement. We shall see what we shall see.
Petro
There is a cliche – “They ignore it at their peril” – that is worth deconstructing here. We, the 99%, wish to be ignored by the 1%, as it is that we long for their peril.
It is the enabling relationship between the haves and have-nots that must be severed. Without the 99%, the empire collapses.
The Raven
The old forms of mass democracy do not seem to operate effectively any more, or perhaps they never worked very well. This is something new. Maybe there is hope in it. Still, it is not enough to get out in the streets: you’ve got to go somewhere better once you are there. For this movement to succeed, it needs courage, strategy, political theory, broad-based support, and ethical leaders. So far I see courage, and some support (but can a national left succeed in the USA in the 2010s?) Strategy, theory, and ethical leaders? I only hope.
I seem to be criticizing OWS for not being radical enough and not having a broad enough vision. How did that happen?
Shoes4Industry
You ARE being ignored by the 1%, Petro. And ignorance is bliss.
Petro
A parasite clings tightly to its host, it does not “ignore” it. And only the host has the will, and the means, to shake it loose.
par4
There hasn’t been a ‘left’ in this country since Eisenhower. Please don’t conflate the useless back-stabbing fucking ‘liberals’ with the Left.
Notorious P.A.T.
“sooner or later, there have to be leaders who can negotiate with your opposition”
Fine, but I hope those leaders come from people who are actually out there doing something, rather than from the suit-wearing espresso-drinkers in their nice offices who will sell out their constituency to maintain a “seat at the table”.
***
“Wall Street cannot prevent governmental malfeasance”
Really? You don’t think that if we stopped vampires like Goldman Sachs from messing with our government, we’d have a better government?
***
“And the complaints about dress are hilarious to me. ”
Not to me. Why can’t broke, unemployed people with few connections wear Armani every day? 😉
Notorious P.A.T.
“Here is a classic example of the old left reacting to an existential thread”
At least it’s titled “Get Off My Lawn”, displaying self-awareness if nothing else.
It’s all just so tiring, so wearying, so exhausting, those protests. They don’t have demands–they only have a process to generate demands. My stars! Oh, the energy is draining out of my body. Whom do they think they are? Why can’t they be one of those movements that has demands without first coming up with demands? What a deplorable waste of time. And all the people there are obviously just out for attention, like…that one guy, and that other guy–what’s his name? Attention, that’s all they want. They should be one of those protest movements that *doesn’t* seek attention. Then I can get on board with them.
I’m just so tired from thinking about it. I need a nap.
Notorious P.A.T.
Lambert, you’ll be shocked to see this, I’m sure:
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2011/9/26/23342/5093
ks
While I’m 100% behind the ideals and goals of these types of events, I still tend to be meh about them anyway. I guess I’m jaded based on the seemingly endless recent protests/marches/occupations, etc. against various injustices “in da hood” that have mostly amounted to squat.
It’s interesting to me the ways in which it’s seemingly harder to be effective engaging in such actions than before. One is the media vacumm. Previously, events like Wisconsin would have been full coverage national news events. While it’s still covered as a big story, the “counter-narrative” is given just as much attention and then its off to the Amanda Knox trial and the celebrity of the minute.
Two, giving the Devils their due, TPTB have gotten much smarter at handling such events. They realized that so long as you can prevent such events from being actually disruptive to their intended targets, you can blunt a big part of their effectiveness. As such, you won’t actally occupy Wall St. You will occupy the “Free Speech Zone” of Liberty Park.
Third, the social dynamic seems to have changed a lot. IIRC, people were once uncomfortable when protestors shouted at them in front of or near their places of work and, as a result, the target’s day to day functioning was often disrupted. Now they just glide by like nothing’s going on and, in this obnoxious case, drink champange from the balcony as you mock the protestors.
With all that said, it’s still worth fighting the good fight.
So…”No Justice, no Peace!”…..
Lisa Simeone
This movement, these occupations, aren’t the end. They are the beginning.
ks
No, they are a continuation.
jcapan
Bill, this is nonsense on so many levels. First, do you think there are many Obama supporters among the protesters? If you’re hostile to the assorted vampire squids, naturally you don’t hold much truck with Obama whose policies (as opposed to recent campaign rhetoric) have rewarded them for the damage they’ve done. Second, to say that protesters are the equivalent of the administration’s astroturf, unwittingly or nay, isn’t just wrong, it’s insulting. Do you not see Wall St. as the enemy. How could anyone circa 2011 fail to see them as our enemies. Finally, protest movements of this nature, if sustained, have the potential to operate outside the parameters of our present, irreparably corrupt system, and this is where most of the potential for change exists. Electoral politics is obviously insufficient. It simply can’t deliver “change we can believe in” anymore.
I’ll leave you with an excerpt from this seminal post from Matt Taibbi:
I’m thrilled to see some properly directed anger.
ks
They are one of the enemies but circa 2011? Try cicra 1911. There isn’t the slightest bit of real difference between J.P. Morgan and Lloyd Blankfein.
Jumpjet
They’re growing and getting some decent numbers.
If they cracked 20,000, they could probably rush the New York Stock Exchange.
Just saying.
Petro
How’s this for numbers? Today:
http://twitpic.com/6t1g0x
Petro
Cynthia Kouril at FDL liveblog:
Petro
Posted pic is not OccupyWallStreet. My apologies.
Jeff
Earlier today, a story about Occupy Wall Street appeared on Yahoo! Finance. It was really funny – it had the tone of “who are those weird people and what do they want – eeeeewwwww?” But the story disappeared. I wonder how many people read it while it was up? I thought it was encouraging that, 12 days into the protest, a story about it appeared, however briefly, in the MSM.
Cloud
Thank you for sharing this.
The Raven
“I hope those leaders come from people who are actually out there doing something, rather than from the suit-wearing espresso-drinkers in their nice offices who will sell out their constituency to maintain a ‘seat at the table.'”
That’s the point, isn’t it? As I said above, the old forms of mass democracy do not seem to operate effectively any more.
This makes me hope. But for what?
Lisa Simeone
Can’t argue with that.
(By the way, our man Kevin Zeese on Olbermann tonight at 8.)
Lisa Simeone
Okay, it’s wordy, repetitive, and could’ve been cut by a third, but there are still a few nuggets in here:
http://www.alternet.org/world/152565/how_anti-authoritarians_can_transcend_their_sense_of_hopelessness_and_fight_back/?page=entire
Petro
Lisa, that’s a great article.
Depressives today, optimists tomorrow. Or, as I would like to say,
Haters today, lovers tomorrow.
Petro
Lisa, FYI – your post regarding the RFP by the Fed has additional reporting:
http://fcw.com/articles/2011/09/30/federal-reserve-wants-to-track-facebook-twitter-chatter.aspx
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-fed-facebook-20110929,0,6886936.story
http://www.scribd.com/doc/66281284/Frbny-Social-Media-Rfp
Plan on posting on it myself after tonight’s cups have worn off…
Lisa Simeone
Petro, thanks. As ever, our overlords are working overtime to contain us serfs!
Re Occupy Wall Street, from a member of the band Junkyard Empire (who will be performing in Oct); I’ve removed his email address:
———- Forwarded message ———-
From: bryan berry
Date: Sep 30, 2011 7:05 PM
Subject: NYC Update and DC Preface
To:
Just checked back in with the occupywallstreet encampment. Shit is growing huge! I just went to what I thought would be a small gathering in front of the nypd headquarters to rally against police brutality (in general, and in specific to occupywallstreet arrests), and there were probably a thousand or more people there alone. We peacefully made a few statements, forced the entry into a “public” plaza that the nypd didn’t want us to get into cause it is right in front of the entrance to their hq and in between city hall. Their we set up an occupation for a few hours, i think mostly to show that “No, we can actually sit down in front of your building as it is public space.” and then marched back to the main event of the wall street occupation.
I couldn’t believe how many more people the occupation has gathered. That space was PACKED! They have a hacker media broadcasting section set up that everyone respects and pretty much leaves alone, and what started as a sandwich table when I was there at the begining is now a few tables long with various dishes to choose from, vegan, vegetarian, meat etc.; as well as an artists performance space, so that noise doesn’t get away from the main speaker / rally space on the opposite corner. In addition to all this, many statements are being made about Oct. 6th… Just to let you all know, the people are feeling powerful. And you can feel that vibe pretty strongly. LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS!
http://october2011.org/
Lisa Simeone
Sotheby’s is demanding that all new hires have no collective bargaining rights, no health benefits, and no job security. The company is operating with scabs and a non-union subcontractor.
Occupy Wall Street supporters said, “Sotheby’s art auctions epitomize the disconnect of the extremely wealthy from the rest of us.”
Sotheby’s also wants the art handlers to give up their 401k plan, take a 10 percent wage cut, cap overtime, and eliminate certain job titles that pay more. In initial bargaining, the company wanted workers to give up their right to sue over discrimination.
Two Sotheby’s board members are also on the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s board, and when they hosted a “diversity gala” last week, Local 814 members showed up to let the celebrity-studded crowd know the people throwing their party are attacking a union that’s 70 percent Black and Latino.
“We thought it was pretty ironic they were patting themselves on the back for their diversity when they’re trying to send families of color back to the 1950s,” said Julian Tysh, an organizer for Local 814.
Teamsters have been busy fighting the lockout, too, crashing Sotheby’s parties and handbilling its events.
Last year was Sotheby’s most profitable year ever in its 267 years of business. The union says its CEO, Bill Ruprecht, is paid about $60,000 a day.
The action last week marked the first time the dispute at Sotheby’s has spilled from the street onto the auction floor—but protesters promised it wouldn’t be the last.
http://labornotes.org/blogs/2011/09/occupy-wall-street-links-locked-out-teamsters
Bill H.
jcapan, I said that I had an opinion. I did not even disagree with your opinion, much less refer to yours as nonsense. The fact that another’s opinion does not agree with mine does not make that other opinion nonsense. That’s how discourse is conducted amongst adults.
Did I say there were any Obama supporters? I said they were being guided by the rhetoric.
I’m not sure what the “assorted vampire squids” are, so I’m not sure what hostility toward them has to do with the subject. I’m not up on the slick political gimmick slang. As soon as I see a phrase like “our Galtian overlords” in a blog post I know I’m reading an extremist who hasn’t had an original thought in his life and I quit reading.
If you are suggesting that an Obama supporter cannot be opposed to Wall Street, you must not have been listening to anything Obama has been saying lately about how the rich don’t pay enough taxes and how they are not carrying their fair share of the tax burden. Given that rhetoric and the number of “tax the rich” and “pay your fair share” signs in the protest crowd, an assumption that there is a fair amount of Obama support is not unreasonable, but Obama support in the crowd was not the issue and not the point of my comment. I merely offered that he is providing misdirection and it is working.
I can’t figure out why you are opposed to protesting in Washington against the government. Wall Street is screwing the people certainly, but they have a lesser obligation to the people. Washington’s sole purpose is serving the people and they are not only failing that purpose, they are perverting it to serve themselves and their corporate masters. Who is the greater enemy? I would suggest it not capitalists who are making as much money as they can using laws which are created by a corrupt government, it is the corrupt government consisting of people we elected to serve us and who are betraying us.
lambert strether
This post on the late Joe Bageant’s site bears re-reading. If only he had been alive to see this day.
Petro
From @lambert’s link – Joe on the Tea Party:
(Of course, I’m quoting this in the general context of the wonderful “un”-organization of #OccupyEverywhere.)
Petro
Uh-oh. The Marines. 🙂
Lisa Simeone
MASS ARRESTS ON BROOKLYN BRIDGE – Saturday 5pm as I type this — young girl, looks maybe 14, now being arrested — live feed:
http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution
And for those hankering after “dressed nicely,” guys in suits & ties also being arrested.
StewartM
Bill H.
One, Obama’s now doing this only when he doesn’t have the power to enact it. It’s empty talk.
When he *did* have the power, from 2009-2010, notice he didn’t do it. That speaks far louder than any rhetoric, uplifting or not.
And a mere quasi-return to the Clinton era rates? If Obama wants to uplift moi, I want to here him return to the *Eisenhower* era rates, that 90 % rate (which resulted in an effective tax rate of over 70 %). Despite what the talking heads tell you, it’s those rates, not the low ones today, that create jobs.
Because it’s clearly evident that Wall Street IS the de facto government. That is precisely what happens in unregulated low-tax capitalism–the rich end using that money to buy the government. They buy the government as it then becomes the best “investment” they can make with their money (it pays off better than new capital investment, worker training, R&D, you name it).
The protesters see that. They’re going after the real bosses, not their elected lackeys.
StewartM
Lisa Simeone
Seconding StewartM.
Petro
I see where you’re coming from, Bill H. – but I’m going to have to go with StewartM as well on this.
Lisa Simeone
NYCGA Declaration from Occupy Wall Street. Very impressive. Simple, clear, direct language. They neglected to talk about war and slaughter, but this is only a first draft; I’m sure they will in successive drafts:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/66968871/NYCGA-Declaration
Bill H.
Stewart, sure Obvama is doing it only because he will not have to follow up on it. So what? The point is that he is saying “Don’t blame government for the situation you are in, people, blame the rich people,” and it’s working. We are blaming rich people.
Lisa and Stewart, I am just astounded that anyone would be willing to elect representatives to represent us, and then when those persons betray our trust say that the fault lies not with the person whom we trusted and with whom we made covenant, but with the outsider who stepped into that covenant.
That is like the wife who, when betrayed by her husband, blames the woman with whom he dallied. Why does she blame the women? That woman made no contract with the wife. That woman owes the wife nothing. The wife’s anger should be aimed at the husband, with whom she had an agreement and who breached that trust.
So we have a government which we elect to represent us and an outsider comes in and interferes with that agreement between us and our representatives, and we say that the greatest harm is from the outsider whom, in terms of the social contract, we had no agreement.
Certainly the wife would dislike the adulterous woman, but going after her to the exclusion of her straying husband just strikes me as an odd reaction. I can assure you that if I strayed my wife would not let me off in favor of going after the woman I did it with, I would be toast.
dcblogger
Call me an old fart, but I am looking forward to the Oct 6 event precisely because it does have a steering committee. I like leadership. I don’t want to sit around debating with a large group of people trying to decide on what our agenda is and then what our demands are. I see the value of it, I just don’t feel like doing it.
Also the October 6th event has some SERIOUS musical talent lined up.
http://october2011.org/musicians
Given the choice between hearing some obscure citizen like myself speak about the war machine and watching Head Roc sing a satirical song about it, I am going with Head Roc everytime. I think that the Oct 6 event will have a festival like atmosphere compared to the earnestness of the General Assembly of Occupy Wall Street.
I also like having one demand, out of Afghanistan now and we won’t leave until we are out of Afghanistan.
I also like that the October 6 website did not call for 20,000 or any other number. They must have some sense of how many people will show up based on the pledges.
I think people want leadership, but they want light handed leadership. They don’t want a leadership that says “here are your marching orders, now go out and do this,” they want leadership that is responsive and flexible and that listens to the grassroots. Or so say I. I won’t be at Freedom Plaza every day, but I will go as often as I can. I will be interested to see who shows up.
Lisa Simeone
Bill H., I guess I’m not being clear: the U.S. government and U.S. corporations are one and the same. There is no difference. Just as there’s precious little difference between the Democrats and Republicans in Congress. Yes, they have betrayed us — our representatives have betrayed us, and their corporate masters, who have bought and paid for them, have betrayed us. We enabled their wealth, but it’s never enough; all they understand is More.
Obama is a fraud. Face it. He is a fraud. He has not only continued, but expanded, the worst abuses of the Bush administration. He is in the pocket of Wall Street just as much as any Republican. He is GWBush II, but with a pretty smile and more charm. The only astounding thing is how so many establishment liberals refuse to admit it.
Lisa Simeone
Maybe this is why the NYPD are cracking down:
NEW YORK CITY POLICE FOUNDATION — NEW YORK
JPMorgan Chase recently donated an unprecedented $4.6 million to the New York City Police Foundation. The gift was the largest in the history of the foundation and will enable the New York City Police Department to strengthen security in the Big Apple. The money will pay for 1,000 new patrol car laptops, as well as security monitoring software in the NYPD’s main data center.
New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly sent CEO and Chairman Jamie Dimon a note expressing “profound gratitude” for the company’s donation.
“These officers put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe,” Dimon said. “We’re incredibly proud to help them build this program and let them know how much we value their hard work.”
http://www.jpmorganchase.com/corporate/Home/article/ny-13.htm?TB_iframe=true&height=485&width=712
Shoe 4 Industry
As well meaning as the Occupy WS “talking points” are, they will get no where unless they start making demands…
We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
DEMAND that mortgages be re-written, splitting the difference between original price and current market value, each party takes a hit.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give CEO’s exorbitant bonuses.
DEMAND all executive bonuses be taxed at 50%.
They have perpetuated gender inequality and discrimination in the workplace.
DEMAND equal pay for equal work.
They have poisoned the food supply, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
DEMAND an end to corporate farm subsidies.
They have continuously sought to end the rights of workers to negotiate their pay and make complaints about the safety of their workplace.
DEMAND the right for workers to organize.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
DEMAND caps on student loan interest, regulate for profit educational scams, make all educational expenses tax deductible.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
DEMAND Medicare for all. Get businesses out of the health insurance business.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
DEMAND the SCOTUS reverse the Citizens United decision.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
DEMAND Medicare for all.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
DEMAND new privacy legislation.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
That’s an over reach on the part of this list.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
DEMAND accountability.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
DEMAND that the Glass–Steagall act be reinstated.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians supposed to be regulating them.
DEMAND election and campaign reform and term limits.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
DEMAND more funding for alt energy.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantive profit.
DEMAND an end to patent scams by pharmaceutical companies
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty book keeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
DEMAND oil producing companies have Billions in clean up escrow accounts and tighten
production oversight.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
DEMAND “critical thinking” be part of every education at every age.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
DEMAND an end to all foreign occupations.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
DEMAND Gitmo and all black ops prisons be shuttered
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.
DEMAND military spending be cut in half.
They have participated in a directly racist action by accepting the contract from the State of Georgia to murder Troy Davis.
DEMAND and end to all capital punishment in the US.
jcapan
Lisa, that contribution is astonishing to me, probably b/c I was ignorant of such corporate patronage. All I can say is wow.
“The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power”
-Franklin D. Roosevelt, April 1938
Lisa Simeone
Shoe 4 Industry, I hope you’ll be with us in DC on Thursday and beyond. You’ll find a lot of your demands on our website, and we could use your clear, direct language in the General Assemblies.
The Raven
“Shoe 4 Industry”–is your nym a pun on “saboteur?” Because “sabots” were wooden shoes, and dutch revolutionaries jammed machines with them.
From my viewpoint, the demands are not radical enough. It is far too late to reinstate Glass-Steagall; new law is needed. Term limits tend to tilt power towards the executive, link. Alternative energy, I think, will never be as inexpensive as fossil fuel energy (and I am an alt-energy researcher)–it will take something like a carbon tax (and probably other taxes) to shift the economy to sustainability. And so on.
There is a need for theory. In-depth analysis is needed to distinguish the good from the superficially plausible. Leaders and teachers are needed to evaluate the work, separate the wheat from the chaff, and communicate valid analysis.
Still. You are out there leading. You give me more hope than I have had since the Obama administration turned out to be conservative. Keep walking: for now at least I will fly alongside, croaking.
(Radical demands: abolish the Federal Senate; it has become a stronghold of corporate power. Make voting a duty of citizenship; right now opinion polls are more reliable than the polls that choose our elected officials. Make Keynesian economics the basis of economic policy-making. Reform immigration policy in the direction of openness. Pass the DREAM act. Reform policing to end abuses. Abandon the drug war as poor and cruel policy. etc., etc., etc.)
StewartM
Lisa, now it’s my time to second you. 🙂
Except that the Wall Street masters always remain the same, whereas their lackeys in Washington change every so many years. Wall Street is the setting of where the reality of power lies in today’s America; while Washington is the setting where the theater and spectacle are staged. (Shiny!!! Shiny!!)
StewartM
Lisa Simeone
I agree. I thought that’s what I said.
Both are corrupt. Both must be challenged. It’s just as “shiny” in NY as in DC. We need protests on all fronts.
Bill H.
One thing I enjoy about this site is the lively discussion that ensues when people have differing opinions, and which does not devolve into flame wars and mud slinging. I don’t know what it is about Ian which attracts such commenters, but I will strenuously attempt to maintain the tenor.
Lisa, I ceratinly agree with your opinion of Obama as a fraud. I knew that the day that he announced Geithner as Secretary of the Treasury and Gates to Defense, and he has supported that impression throughout his, well I started to say “reign.”
But the protestors on Wall street are carrying signs that say things like “Medicare for all” which makes no sense to me. How is Wall Street involved in that? Juan Cole says that the central theme of the protest is that they want government to represent 99% of the population and quit representing 1% of the wealthiest, but how does mobbing the 1% accomplish that? It is the government we seek to change.
You say that corporations are the government, but that is merely an angry slogan and is not the literal truth. Corporations are not going to change what they are doing. They are working within a framework of laws passed by Congress, and to change those laws action is required by Congress.
Tahrir Square occurred because Egypt did not have free elections which allowed them to change their government. We do. The excuse that the two party paralyzes the electorate is a weak one, because if the electorate participated fully in primary elections, the parties would not control who was on the ballot in the general elections to nearly the degree that they do.
We elect these people to office, and then when they betray us, instead of electing different people to office, we mount protests against a third party. What did that third party do? They bribed the legislators we trusted, but it is the legislators who betrayed our trust.
And we betrayed our own trust, because it is we who allow money to buy elections. It is we who allow thirty-second sound bite advertisements to determine who we will vote for, instead of paying attention to what our elected officals are actually doing and voting them out of office when they take bribes. The people of Egypt didn’t have the power to do that, we have had it all along and have failed to use it.
Lisa Simeone
Bill H., I don’t fault the protesters for not having One And Only One Message. Holding a sign that says “Medicare For All” on Wall Street doesn’t diminish the protest. And I argue that Wall Street has a helluva lot to do with Medicare, or any health care for that matter, seeing that corporations are getting rich off the illness of people in this country.
But on to an eyewitness account:
On Oct 2, 2011, at 10:36 AM, bpvetforpeace@[private email address removed by Lisa] wrote:
High, Folks,
Just spent 8 hours, with 700 of my closest friends, being detained, while Occupying the Brooklyn Bridge.
At 3pm, We started marching around OUR city, when Bloomberg’s NYPD entrapped us into using the Brooklyn Bridge roadway, rather than the raised deck of the Pedestrian Walkway. 9, or 10,000 Thousand folks, (like VFP’s George Macanamy), were able to use the raised walkway, but those 700 of us on the actual Roadway got tired at the Mid-span of the Bridge, near the famous Neo-Gothic stone Suspension Cable Towers, and we plopped down to study the beautiful Archways built into the Towers, and the lovely geometric designs of the graceful steel suspension cables.
Mayor Bloomies NYPD didn’t play that shit.
From 4pm to 7pm, we were absolutely saturated with rain, while the Police were realizing THEY, too, are part of the 99%, as big hits to their Pension Plans are being discussed. Police finally got about 10 big ass MTA busses, because their meat wagons were woefully inadequate, for all 700 of us. They backed the buses up from both the Brooklyn side, and the Manhattan side, and by 7pm, we were all on board the 2nd & 3rd waves of busses, and by 8pm, we were processed and locked into 1 person cells, crammed with 7 or 8 peeps each.
Note to Nate: The Communal “Mic Check” thingy really isn’t Maoist brainwashing. We were able to communicate messages to all 20 cells, on opposite sides of the wing of the jail, for Legal Aid ph #’s, messages from the last to get out, to the 1st to get out to spread, and even the cops on the transport busses were using “Mic Check” to communicate to us which of the 3 processing Precincts we were going to, and all the niceties that kids who’ve never been detained should know.
We sang, laughed, joked, and grooved, until we were released, around 2am, and most of us got back to LIBERTY PLAZA by 3am, a mere 12 hours after our March left LIBERTY PLAZA.
I was honored to be jailed with all the young-uns (y’all wouldn’t believe the age demographics of the kids), and it was my SECOND favorite DETENTION since Hosni Mubarak detained 600 of us, in Tahrir Square, on Dec 31, 2009 (13 months BEFORE the Revolution)
Be Well, RAISE HELL !
Bill Perry
Delaware Valley Veterans For America
Disabled American Veteran, VVAW, VFP, VFW, VVA
http://DelValVets4America.org/
http://www.Arlington-Libertybell.net/
Ché Pasa
The Raven:
I agree with these demands, especially the “etc, etc.” 😉 There is so much that needs to be dealt with from as fundamental a level as we can collectively manage. That is why what is going on has exploded all across the country and more and more around the world.
I hear you — and so many others — when you ask for greater clarity and leadership from this movement, but I sincerely believe that it’s not time for that yet. It may never be time, because this is fundamentally a different kind of action than most of us are used to.
I was at the rally — and General Assembly — in my town yesterday, and there were many calls for greater clarity and leadership from people who were genuinely uneasy about the formlessness of the rebellion-that-is-becoming-revolution. “Where are the demands?” “Who is in charge?” “What is this really about?” “Someone has to be elected our representative!” That last was from the Socialist section of the crowd. “You MUST!”
Ché Pasa
[CONT’D]
“You MUST!”
Well, no. And the General Assembly did not agree that anything like what the Socialists were calling for was desirable or necessary. It was pointed out that we are ALL representatives, no one is — or can — be “in charge,” and as soon as “demands” are graven in stone, the cause is potentially lost. The Socialists left in what I interpreted as disgust.
Maybe they’ll be back, who knows? As I pointed out to their representative, “Marx was right, and everybody knows it now. It’s obvious.”
The leaderless model of rather amorphous demands is actually working better, at least for now, than the more hierarchical models of action and resistance and clarity most of us are used to and are more comfortable with. It’s harder to take action this way, and yet when action is taken under this model, it is far more deeply committed to.
To Bill H:
Lisa is right, there is no palpable difference between Wall Street and the Government any more. Action against one is action against the other by definition. They are a unity.
Petro
I think recent events have carved a space in which “serious” people can now realistically ignore the captured two-party system. I know that my eyes are reflexively, instinctively, rolling at the mailers from Dem and lib action centers that are hitting my inbox.
Before, it took some thought before I had that reaction.
Just… occupy that space.
Self
Just to be clear, Alterman, Wonkette and Madrak were all supporters of old left positions as they built their web feifdoms. So let’s not refer to them as a basis for going forward. They kissed the rings, let them comment as they wish but there is no leadership from that group. Reactionary commentators such as these have no place on the left side of my universe. When I need to work the middle I’ll see what these types have to say. Oh and by the way, that goes double for firedoglake and huffingtonpost. Organizers should pay close attention to the currents of criticism out there rather than try to anchor the movement to intellectual rafts taking on water.
Shoes 4 Industry
Bill H.-
“Medicare for all” is synonymous with single payer, not-for-profit health insurance. Medicare is NOT health care, it’s insurance. If someone would simply and clearly define what the insurance IS to the American public, there would be no debate and they would overwhelming support Medicare for all. The reason Medicare exists in the first place, is not to benefit the public but rather for the benefit of the insurance companies. It takes the riskiest, most costly to insure, off their books and out their risk pool. Of course, Medicare costs are going through the roof, it only serves the oldest, sickest and costliest clientele. By expanding the Medicare risk pool with younger, healthier, less costly subscribers, ALL medical costs would be reduced dramatically.
At the same time, any discussion of health care costs that does not address the American Obesity Epidemic, is specious.
dcblogger
Wee bit harsh, dontcha think? at 1500 readers a day, I would hardly call Madrak’s site a feifdom. I like Alterman, as for Wonkette, that site was designed to be a smart aleck site.
Madrak is one of my all time favorite bloggers. I don’t think she thinks of herself as a leader, just a blogger commenting on the events of her time, with a lot of insight in my never-was-humble-opinion.
I will be at the Oct 6 demonstration at Freedom Plaza as often as I can and writing reports at Corrente blog, for anyone who cares.
Lisa Simeone
dcblogger, then I hope to meet you, because, as you know, I’ll be there every day! Come up and introduce yourself.
dcblogger
You will be able to recognize me by my stylish attire
http://2l4o.blogspot.com/
jawbone
Occupy Wall Street is fookin’ brilliant to be in NYC…because it’s right under the MCM’s noses –er, make that headquarters– and it’s harder to avoid some coverage because the local stations cover it. That makes it harder to make 8 million or so New Yorkers believe the MCMers don’t know it’s happening.
It’s a numbers game. It’s been amazingly easy to ignore huge demos, even in NYC, if they’re one off events, whether it’s rallies, demos, or marches. It’s harder to ignore an ongoing “occupation.” More power to the initial planners and those carrying on with OWS.
And, the OWS people are getting the message out there, even if the MCMers say they don’t “get it.” People are “getting it.”
Example from Northern NJ Suboonia.
MCM–Mainstream Corporate Media, with the middle word explaining just about all you need to know about our modern media and its effects.
jawbone
Self — have you read Suburban Guerrilla lately? I think you will notice that Susie has a very clear recognition of the shortcoming of the Dem Party, Obama, lots of lefty writing, etc.. She seems to have realized there’s been a huge scam played on Democratic Party voters.
She picks up on some amazing articles and makes cogent and relevant remarks about them.
Check out her site again and you may be pleasantly surprised. But, if you can’t believe people do change, I may be wrong. My own take is that she was bamboozled by Obama and his campaign, but rather quickly realized there was no “there” there.
StewartM
Bill H.
Laws passed by the very Congresscritters that they bought. Again, it comes back to the truism that it’s more fruitful complain to the real boss than to the hired help.
Advertisements, that is, created by skilled manipulators whose job it is to tell sell “slavery is freedom”, “war is peace”, and “down is up” by pulling every emotional lever in our culture that they can.
At the very heart of this discussion is how much individuals are personally responsible for the current political mess. Yes, I agree that if one can see through the lies if one is more politically informed and aware.
But to me, that smacks of libertarianism, of their argument that we don’t need regulations, that everyday citizens should be “personally responsible” and somehow find the time to also be experts at climate change, about financial regulations, about food safety issues, about military waste—even though in large part the information to be experts at these issues is not readily available, either because of justifications of national security or that the information is declared proprietary. Despite all that, everyone should be still experts at everything and to see clearly which side is telling bald-faced lies and which is telling the truth, and see through the comforting homilies and logical fallacies deftly touched in to spread the lies.
We used to have a media that once helped play honest broker between helping the public distinguish between at least some things that were indisputably true and the things that were indisputably lies. Now that media’s been bought too, or cowered into presenting “fairness” (i.e., the lies get equal footing with the truth) over “accuracy” (where you actually tell the public that one side’s lying).
So–increasingly, many people worldwide think the only way to bring change doesn’t come in pulling a (D) lever (or (G) lever, for that matter). It’s in mucking up the system as much as possible and throwing as many wrenches until the owners’ bottom line is affected and their lives made uncomfortable.
StewartM
jawbone
Bill H — Wall Street is emblematic of what’s gone wrong with our government, with lack of regulations when they were in place and removal of regulations at the request (demands) of Big Bidness, Wall Street Gang Banksters, Big Corporations, the Uberwealthy. With the change in tax laws which favor the very rich and have resulted in a massive shift of wealth from the middle and working classes to the Top One Percent. With the influence of global corporations which want to make money overseas instead of in the USA and get favorable trade treaties passed to meet their corporate objectives. All with the aid of the two legacy political parties.
With great wealth comes great power and the ability to make politicians beholden to their largest donors. Both parties are now enthralled to Big Money and seemingly cannot break free enough to take actions to meet the needs and wishes of the non-wealthy, non-connected, non-Big Bidness.
Medicare for All actually is important since employer provided insurance is one way business can control the actions of workers. In this nation, without a job, one serious illness can bankrupt an individual or family; that makes the employer much stronger than labor. Without the clout of Big PhRMA, Medicare could be negotiating for lower prescription drug rates, just as Big Insurers do. But Obama bowed to Big PhRMA and other Big Health Industry Players (BHIP) to work for a get passed an insurance profit protection plan, not health CARE reform.
Money, Bill H — it’s a rich man’s game. And it takes that massive flow of wealth from the middle class to the Top One Percent to enable them to control most of the money going into winning elections. Democrats used to be in favor of public financing; now, we have the first president since the presidential campaign funding was passed who eschewed public financing. And he’s a Democrat.
With huge numbers unemployed, no real gain in buying power since the 1970’s for most workers, and we end up being a group which cannot even afford to make small donations.
Check out this visual…. Too true.
David
“I think recent events have carved a space in which “serious” people can now realistically ignore the captured two-party system…”
Petro,
That is rather an astute observation and I think it can be seen as a corollary to Ian’s point. Since TARP, I became convinced that working within the two party system
was a dead-end, but at the same time it was not clear to me where to put my support.
So recent events have indeed carved out a space for people to put their support.
I would not be surprised that the lessons learned from OWS leads to a series of related movements.
jawbone
<a href="http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/04/14/americas-peasant-mentality/Link for the Matt Taibbi quote excerpted above.
“The Peasant Mentality Lives On in America,” posted April 14, 2009.
StewartM
Bill H.
Excellent question!
The opposition to a sane national health care system exhibits clearly how Wall Street has captured US policy, both government and corporate, to the detriment of everyone else. From any rational perspective, it is in the best interest of US businesses that they have the ballooning cost of employee health care lifted from their shoulders and be “socialized”. That is, after all, a cost that they pay which their competitors overseas do not. It was a big reason why the Big Three were in trouble (and instead of the bailout with its union-repressing measures, Obama *should* have simply used this as an opportunity to lift the burden of employee health care from all the Big Three which would have made them instantly profitable again. It was that much of a burden).
Then why aren’t GM and GE and DuPont and Microsoft and other companies banging down the doors of their Congresscritters demanding a real national health care system? One answer is simply this–their leadership realizes that such a system would require higher taxes, and probably higher taxes on *them, personally*. Rather than advocate what’s in the best interest of their companies as institutions, they do what’s in the best interest of themselves as individuals. Wall Street has corrupted the leadership of US businesses.
Nor is that the only way that Wall Street is destroying the American economy. The absurd and unrealistic demands of profitability demanded by Wall Street and a stock market flooded with tax-cut money drives management of US businesses to “warm their house by burning it”, as Ian has stated. No longer is a steady 5 or 8 or 10 % profit enough; Wall Street demands that you exit any businesses not making 12 or 15 or 20 % (and hand that business over to overseas competitors, by default). But any sane student of business would tell you that profit margins of 12 or 15 or 20 % aren’t sustainable in anything but a monopolistic market. But businesses try to reach them anyway, by slashing R&D, by slashing reinvestment into plant and capital, by laying off experienced workers and replacing them with untrained and inexperienced lower-paid workers. Anything, anything, to get that profit “bump” of 3-5 % to make the Wall Street banksters pleased.
I’d rant more, but you get the idea.
StewartM
Petro
@StewartM: Well done.
(Though that was a bit of a softball from @Bill H. 🙂 I wonder if he’s on our side after all.)
Bill H.
“But to me, that smacks of libertarianism, of their argument that we don’t need regulations, that everyday citizens should be “personally responsible””
NO, NO, NO, a thousand times NO. My Rep is Susan Davis (D CA-53), whose advertisements portray her a a liberal, as I would want her to be. They stress her support of social issues, such as repeal of DADT. Slam dunk for my support, right? Wrong. She is a staunch supporter of militarism, military adventurism, and a security state. I know that because I follow her voting record in Congress, which is published weekly in the local paper.
My bit on the “Medicare for all” was just an example. Wall Street cannot make that change, so why are protesters carrying that sign on Wall Street? That demand should be made to Congress. Assuming that Wall Street barons do own Congress and have replaced its functionalitycompletely, are they going to phone Washington and tell the legislators who are their servants to make that change? They are not. To get that change made we will have to short circuit Wall Street and get Congress to respond to us rather than to Wall Street, and how do we accomplish that by protesting on Wall Street?
And, Petro, of course I’m on your side. I want the protest to get bigger and stronger, and to move to where it will aim at the right target.
dcblogger
Medicare For All (HR 676) will not require higher taxes; it will save $350 BILLION a year
http://www.correntewire.com/just_where_does_medicare_all_would_save_350_billion_come
The Raven
“I hear you — and so many others — when you ask for greater clarity and leadership from this movement, but I sincerely believe that it’s not time for that yet.”
I think you are right. But the waiting is hard.
StewartM
Bill H.
My point is that most people don’t have the time nor inclination to be policy junkies. They don’t follow track bills through Congress, they switch the channel when the political talking heads come on the air, they don’t follow Politico or the online political sources. For better or for worse, they believe they have personal lives to lead. You may believe that they should be more “responsible citizens” or whatnot, but that’s the way that most people are. Not only in the US, but everywhere else too.
Does this leave them vulnerable to being manipulated by slick operatives? You betcha. However, we once had the Fourth Estate that could act like a partial block on that–to point out the outright lies and deceptions to those not political junkies. Now they too have been largely bought or intimidated into “fairness”. To make matters worse, over the past forty years or so bought-and-paid-for “belief tanks” (Gary Trudeau’s moniker) have been created whose job is to give an veneer of academic respectability to back up the lies. The fact that the publications of said belief tanks aren’t worth toilet paper in real academic merit matters little in news reporting, as the refuting of their “facts”don’t generally hit the newsfeeds.
So–even if everyday citizens were more involved and more captured by the political process, it takes a lot of expertise to recognize the crapola when they see it.
That’s what makes the Wall Street protests the right thing to do politically. Most people aren’t policy wonks, but they do see when they get screwed they’re told by the current House to ‘fuck off and die’ (in essence) whereas when a bankster stubs his toe those same Congresscritters run with trillions of public dollars to soothe his pain. President Bipartisanship (if he were a real liberal) have tapped into this anger for good cause but decided to ‘look forward not backward’. Now people are moving without him or without the leadership of the old Left. That’s a good thing.
StewartM
StewartM
Dcblogger:
Medicare-for-all would save the *country* $350 billion (in public and private spending on health care). I don’t dispute that, and that’s what the gist of the article is.
But it still would require additional taxes, no?
(A lot of people can’t seem to get over the fact that you come out better if your taxes go up by 10 % but what you have to pay out to one or more private entities goes down 20 %).
StewartM
Bill H.
Let me try one more approach here. A question was asked, “Then why are corporations banging on the doors of Congress demanding that…?” A better question would be to ask, “Why are our legislators paying any attention to those demands?” Another good question might be to ask, “Why are we ourselves not banging on the doors of Congress making demands?”
Corporations do not harm us when they ask Congress to grant them favors, Congress harms us when they grant those favors.
Bill H.
Stewart M.
Then our democracy has failed. It takes me a matter of four minutes or so per week to read Davis’ voting record and determine whether or not the advertisements she runs reflect an accurate picture of who she is. If most people cannot spend four to five minutes per week determining the fate of their nation, then the “garnd experiment” has failed.
StewartM
Bill H.
StewartM
That sounds like someone who’s a whiz at computers talking about how easy it is to install an OS or to compile a program or to install a new video card. What takes you 5 minutes might take someone else an hour or more. Some might not have the first clue of where to find such information, nor how to interpret what it means. (Look at the number of people who get tricked by legalese or misleading sales pitches into signing up for things that they didn’t intend to sign up for).
I know such people. A friend who was unemployed and receiving benefits but a low-information voter (no high school degree) signed up as a friend on Sarah Palin’s Facebook page because he genuinely thought she would help him and millions of others unemployed. I gently set him straight. That, and the people who vote the way they do for trivial reasons, are indeed problems with democracy. I personally think that the current US political map is largely the way it is because Republicans still benefit from what I call “grandfather voters” (“I vote Republican ’cause my granddaddy always did”) in the West and Midwest whereas the Democrats are still reeling from the loss of their “grandfather voters” in the white South.
But has it ever been any different? I don’t think so. People always have gotten more politically involved in bad times and less so in good times. And they based their votes and support on trust as much as on anything else. That is another reason for the collapse of progressive politics, as liberals have demonstrated in the Age of Reagan that they aren’t to be trusted to really enact what they say they favor. Heck, they can’t be trusted even to unapologetically defend their political philosophy. The end result of “me too!” Third-Way “liberalism” is that most people come away with the idea that the conservatives were right all along.
As some have pointed out here, nearly everyone–even most (not rich) conservative voters, despises Wall Street. Making them the focus of an attack is possibly the best way politically to win people over and to change the dynamics of the debate in America.
Because you’ll get the usual form letter from your Congresscritter repeating ad nauseum the usual rightwing talking points. The only way they respect your demands is that you are able to remove them. Even before Citizens United incumbency already offered most congresscritters effectively the title of “Congresscritter for Life”. Now it’s even worse.
StewartM