Tea party crazies are winning, and it’s not even close. The deep rich, like the Koch’s, have funded this. The Republicans figure they’ll get in eventually, and with a strong crazy hard right wing, they’ll be able to pass the stuff they really want to pass.
I think it’s going to backfire on the rich, these folks believe in tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts—but they also don’t believe in bailouts, and the rich WILL need another bailout.
America’s heading for its fascist moment. Sorry, but that’s just the way it is.
Tom Hickey
America’s heading for its fascist moment. Sorry, but that’s just the way it is.
Yep, but we aren’t quite there yet. This is just a warm up for the general in 2012, with the presidency the prize. Will the Establishment let a crazy win? This promises to get interesting.
Oscar Leroy
Not so fast, now. Let’s first see if these nutjobs win.
On the other hand, with a president who thinks he can kill any American he wants without answering to anyone, who is to say we even need Republicans to descend into fascism?
jeer9
Obama’s doing everything they want at the moment. Why topple him with a serious challenger in 2012? The duopoly will select a crazy loon to oppose him to solidify his position as a model of corporate sanity and responsibility as the Congress moves rightward. In 2016 we get a Mitch Daniels-type or someone of his gubernatorial gravitas to move the agenda even further down the road. The oligarchs managing this slide into fascism possess more subtlety than you suppose, and will use the Becks and Palins as a counterpoint to make voters feel relieved that things might actually be worse. McDonald’s will offer 29 cent burgers. The Red Zone will be available free of charge. (I apologize for the cynicism but I’ve been reading way too much Karp lately.)
Mandos
Yes, yes you do. A president appropriating the ability to kill particular individuals is still not fascism. It may be utterly reprehensible, dangerous, and counter to the ostensible principles of the country’s governing system, but it’s hardly the bottom of the barrel.
Ian Welsh
He’s not doing everything they want, I’m afraid. For example, he wants to let the Bush tax cuts for the richest people expire. The financial reform bill, while weak, was still stronger than they wanted. Plus they want even more tax cuts.
He’s not crazy enough for them. If he was, they wouldn’t be funding the Tea Party, and the majority of Wall Street’s donations wouldn’t have switched to Republican.
They want it all. Obama’s minor dissent is not tolerable.
Mandos
Yes, and anyone who thinks that a potentially victorious Tea Party movement, maybe outside of a narrow Ron Paul rump, is a vehicle for some future comprehensive economic populism is making a mistake. They may be angry at bailoutry, but they’ll easily be brought on board for SS cuts if it hits other—and future—demographics. Bailoutry will also be slipped through on the heels of appropriating the “Ground” “Zero” “Mosque” in Manhattan for a national monument…or something of that kind or another that stirs wingnutty emotions and distracts.
Which is the entire point of promoting an identity-emotive populist movement.
The Raven
I’m not sure there’s anyone but the Kochs funding the tea parties; maybe there are two or three other “deep rich,” but it’s still not a very large group. Obama, on the other hand, is the candidate of the country club Democrats, who are a large group. My guess is that, as has happened before with well-heeled astroturf, the tea party is going to be a fizzle; their candidates aren’t going to be winning the general election in any great numbers.
As for our authoritarian moment, I think we are already in it. Reagan was the revolution’s Lenin, Bush II/Cheney was Stalin, and I suppose Obama (who has publicly spoken of his admiration for Reagan) stands in the place of Molotov. We await the arrival of Khrushchev, and a Russian spelling dictionary.
Mandos
Like everyone else, I don’t know what the magic formula is to bring back a left-wing economic populism at the federal level—as long as the people who have technical control over the economic levers of goverment, economists and whatnot, are basically wall-to-wall opposed to a left-wing populist agenda, believe that there is a (super)natural rate of unemployment, etc, it probably won’t happen regardless of who you elect.
What I do know is that the process to change opinion in the general public, at least, won’t be helped by Republican control of Congress and/or the Presidency.
vastleft
Re: “What I do know is that the process to change opinion in the general public, at least, won’t be helped by Republican control of Congress and/or the Presidency.”
For the last two national elections, the public tried to get populist change. The Democrats pissed on them and that mandate. I guess that’s one way to change public opinion.
Lex
I find it funny that Maddow and Rich, etc. are now on the “Koch funding the Tea Party” bandwagon. Hell, anyone who regularly reads the eXile (now exiledonline) where Ames, Zaitchik and Levine post their work knew this a long time ago…at the time of the first tea party protests (post Ron Paul protests that is). We also know that the Koch fortune got started by working for Stalin.
Oh the irony of totalitarianism arising from free market fundamentalists who rose with the help of a totalitarian.
In a strange way i look forward to the next few years. I’ll finally get to find out if my country is as stupid and crazy as i suspect it is. And then it will be off to the camps for me.
The Tragically Flip
I’m not sure there’s anyone but the Kochs funding the tea parties; maybe there are two or three other “deep rich,” but it’s still not a very large group.
If the other richies don’t like what the Kochs are doing, they know where their chequebooks are. I’d like to think there are more sane rich people who recognize their riches were only possible in the kind of first world country that sane liberal policy builds, but I think there are a lot of them who really think they’re detached from the consequences to the rest of society, and prefer the life of the 3rd world wealthy: Islands of splendour amid oceans of squalour.
I wonder when the business model of kidnapping rich kids for ransom will take off again like the good old days of the Gilded era. If latin America is any guide, that business model extends pretty well to middle class kids too.
Mandos
Did they? Yes, some blogosphereans projected populism onto Obama, but a whole lot of the liberal-er part of the American public bought the bipartisanship biz—more than Internet populists want to believe. I mean, the last “successful” presidency was Clinton, and he had a Republican Congress and was hardly a William Jennings Bryan. Sesame Street Morality suggests to many that the political conflict and upending of systems required for a populist revolt is merely “partisan bickering” and stupid politicians jockeying for power—what underlay a whole lot of the opposition to HRC. After 30 years of the Democrats applying this formula (and the right profiting from it), you thought they’d overturn it in 2-4?
In any case, there’s a bigger problem. Even if you *were* to elect genuine economic populists, you still have the “Yes, Minister” issue (I assume everyone is familiar with the old britcom)–the “technocratic” elite who will be given the task of implementing these kinds of policies is really not on side. Consider this horrifying publication from the Cleveland Fed, whose authors admit that Uncle Miltie didn’t have a good definition of a “natural rate of unemployment”, but EUREKA! they have discovered a way to measure it. It ain’t just the Geithners and the Summerses, it is really turtles all the way down.
b.
“America’s heading for its fascist moment. Sorry, but that’s just the way it is.”
It may just be the end of the beginning, but there are plenty of people outside the well-protected borders of this blighted nation that have been on the receiving end of this on-going-on-30-years moment, and are quite dead for it. If there has been any change beyond what momentum and continuity will bring, it is that the level of stupidity has now passed the threshold at which our braion still informs us that you don’t shit where you eat – a principle that both the very rich and the very pliable have successfully unlearned by now.
If The People cannot muster the will and decency to save themselves, then entropy will save all those others taxed without representation.
lambert strether
I think that ChicagoDyke has the right of it in her analysis of “neo-fascism”: “smarter, slicker, prettier (well, the nazis had better uniforms), and less obvious”.
And I think Ian is right to frame the Tea Party vs. Not Tea Party discourse as part of the battle between ruling class factions. I also agree with the commenter who believes that the “Country Club Ds” are more powerful, and that the Tea Party movement is not to their advantage, and so they’ll oppose it. Presumably, if the Country Club Ds take matters seriously enough, they’ll fund whatever they need to fund to take the Tea Partiers down. Whichever way… Well, I don’t eay popcorn any more because the butter and salt are bad for me. So, though I’d like to pass the popcorn, I can’t!
John
“I think it’s going to backfire on the rich, these folks believe in tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts—but they also don’t believe in bailouts, and the rich WILL need another bailout.”
This is the great conundrum except for the fact that the rich, or a certain segment of them, believe heavily in the ‘war’ bailout. War socialism has been America’s socialism since they saw how profitable WW2 was. Oligarchs like the Duponts have understood it for several hundred years.
Iran is just being kept on the back of the grill like a short order burger waiting for the next cash paying customer.
lambert strether
And speaking of the richies and political economy, this post at Yves Place is essential reading.
Avedon
“One member of the DLC’s executive council is none other than Koch Industries…”
The Koch’s have both parties locked up.
Soda Bob
Oh, pashaw.
This is just fascism around the burned crispy edges of empire.
Still some cooking to do.
Bernard
Beck’s stain on the Lincoln Memorial was but one of the signs of the Fascism that overtaken this country. the anti muslim hysteria is another sign. the fascist have been quietly and not so quietly running things for a while now.
the real question for me is when or if the Idiots will ever see how completely they have been “used.” the intolerance for any point of view/thinking has been laid for many years now. the Pro life terrorists have done what the Communists could never have done.
how deep and how ugly American fascism gets is the only point of debate. watching the Tea Party respond to the GOP takeover of their “victories” will show the details of what the Masters of the Universe considers “tolerable.”
Ah America,land of the fascists home of the idiots
Z
I’m posting this as a test.
Z
Z
My initial reaction to the tea party victories yesterday is one of hope … and not the demo-zombie hope that this development will help their precious party win a few more races than they may have otherwise. No, hope that positive change will be set in motion by this movement although the movement itself may not necessarily be positive. And you got to give them this: though the tea partiers are somewhat manipulated … and funded by big money interests … to fight back against obama’s “socialism”, they currently have more passion and cohesion than the dems to HOLD THEIR PARTY ACCOUNTABLE as far as voting some of these corrupt bastards out. But, that’s not really entirely fair to the dems becoz the dems did defeat the deplorable lieberman in their primary, almost brought down lincoln and bennet, and the election of obama was for many, I believe, a reaction to the establishment dem ways though the end result was only more corporate, imperialistic and authoritarian extremism now marketed as pragmatism and sold by a charismatic, evil piece of garbage.
But again, I don’t think that this tea party movement is necessarily bad and that history necessarily repeats itself and that we’ll soon see people goosestomping down the street, burning books, and that we’ll all fall in line behind some despot. Times do change and one of many advantages that we have over the Germans of that era is that we have better communication technology and hence more access to the truth and therefore it is harder to throw up a false headline and have no evidence emerge to refute it. This is more likely to turn into a social civil war IMO than result in having so many people back one group in power that it becomes a totalitarian movement.
TO BE CONT.
Z
Z
The tea partiers are funded by big business interests, but it is a populist movement that is partially based upon what many of us outside of that group also believe: our government is corrupted by corporate interests, does not represent us and has become the enemy of the vast majority of people that it purports to represent. By definition, when the government does not represent you, you are a subject not a citizen. With that in mind, I’d much rather have some agitation and some passion against our enemy than somnolence. Becoz it is a reaction that will beget more reactions and this country won’t have a chance to change in a positive direction without it. And though this development is not guaranteed to turn out well, at least it is putting one wing of our one party system on its heels a bit and will cause them to make some moves that may ultimately backfire on our ruling class.
You won’t get change for the better without any change at all.
Z
zot23
I get a feeling it won’t be so cut and dried. There are three major factions gaining support, ability, and mindshare in America IMHO: the right wing craqzies, the corporates (they are established already), and the progressives.
Progressives are on a slow burn, they can slowly build and be in background as the only “rational” choice. But they’re small and unfocused, not quite ready for prime time.
The corporates are all the moderates across both parties, they’ve owned the show the last few years (decades?) They are fighting a rear guard action against both the crazies and the progressives, slowly losing ground. When Gibbs calls the left “fucking retards” he means progressives, when Obama slams conservatives and obstructionist Republicans, he is aiming those comments at the teabag influence in that party. He’d be pleased as punch to work with the middle section of the Republicans, after all their policies are his policies.
The crazies are the theo-facist nutjobs on the right. Gaining very, very fast on the dime of the corporate wing. But as Ian notes, stoking the flames of racism, fear, and the demons of our souls is a risky business. They will get off leash and sooner or later have their 15 mins in the sun.
Now IMHO, I see the big fight being between the crazies and the corporates first. Progressives are too small, too disorganized, and are seen as “pussies” so far. The crazies will drive for the hoop and once they bite the hands of the corporate masters, it is game on. I would guess that the flashpoint will be when the banks turn insolvent again and there isn’t 60 votes in the senate to pass another giveaway to the rich (no matter how much Fox News declares the need in heavy rotation.) So you have the psuedo-facists taking on the status quo masters while the progressives pick and choose their battles (while hopefully growing their base and laying down party planks.)
Where this goes and who wins I don’t know. I would love for it to be progressives coming in after the other two have worn each other down with constant battle, but who knows? But this is where I see the major battle lines being drawn in the future, not a bi-partisan system with outliers on both ends but a tri-party system vying for control in the next generation of American politics. BTW – I’m not taking credit for this, it was Stirling Newberry’s idea a year or two back, I just think he is spot on correct and this is how it will play out.
zot23
BTW – That flashpoint and battle between the crazies and corporates will not be happy times. I would suspect it occurs against the background of either hyperinflation, acute deflation, or god help us both. Go out and buy a couple 50 lb bags of rice, beans, a few cases of whiskey, and a few propane tanks. Good times…
Pepe
http://www.truth-out.org/do-not-pity-democrats63204
Cujo359
Mandos writes:
Based on recent experience, I know the opposite. Actually, being in power is what did in the Democrats, too. Being in power has made the clergy unpopular in Iran, at least as rulers. Often, when a beautiful theory meets up with cold reality, the theory doesn’t look so good anymore.
This election is the GOP’s to lose, not because they did so well, but because Democrats have done so badly that their own base doesn’t see why they should vote for them.
Cujo359
Ian Welsh wrote:
It’s nowhere near enough to prevent another catastrophe. You’d think they’d be happy.
Pepe
They didn’t even want to play along with being publicly, yet insincerely, criticized.
Neicie aka Proud Field Negress
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.
John Stuart Mill
English economist & philosopher (1806 – 1873)
As a life long liberal dunno whats the 411 with the progressive political punditry – guess one has to b one to unnerstan de ofay way
lambert strether
zot23, here’s the Newberry link. I hope he’s right. I’m certainly trying to help that happen.
jcapan
“I think that ChicagoDyke has the right of it in her analysis of ‘neo-fascism’: ‘smarter, slicker, prettier (well, the nazis had better uniforms), and less obvious'”
That she does. Awesome comment.
Thanks as well to Avedon for the link. I’d not seen this (nor am I remotely surprised to see this). Must be incovenient for Dem partisans to come to grips with, but hell, denial works wonders.
Ten Bears
I thought we’d agree quite some time ago we had crossed that peak, so to speak.
We’re where we’re at on momentum, and damned little of that remain.
Celsius 233
Ian Welsh; America’s heading for its fascist moment. Sorry, but that’s just the way it is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I thought we had that some years ago. I guess it depends on ones tolerance for lawlessness.
The chuckle I’m getting at the moment is; the majority of Americans are acting like loons; there is no real thinking going on. There are just blasts of emotion fueled by a lack of critical thinking ability, no knowledge of what’s really going on, and a pathological desire to follow some messiah and they’re so hungry for it there is a feeding frenzy around any body who can put together a nano-second of news sound bites designed to stoke those very emotions.
Rats living in an over populated cage eating each other alive.
That I don’t chuckle about, because no animal should be treated like that!
chicago dyke
disemployment; television/video culture; drug legal and otherwise; drone factory “schools.” those are the four pillars of neofascism and until something is done to affect those realities, things will continue to get worse as the last of the middle class are forced into the underclass. i have very little hope in the american people in the sense that they suffer from real and crippling addictions to those things, or their effects. i look at places like France, Iran, and other nations in which people are willing to engage their governments and see nothing like that here. the essence of neofascism is that it creates quiet sheep who go willingly to the slaughter, rather than relying on brownshirts to round them up and send them to the camps. and the master class is betting on our continued willingness to starve and watch people sinking all around us, with minimal objection.
lambert strether
A counter-example to pessimism can be found in the DC mayoral race; Fenty = Obama.
jcapan
CD, in other words more Huxley than Orwell right?