Trudeau goes full-McCarthy on the Conservatives, using the “foreign interference” charge against politicians (but also in a gratuitous bonus round Jordan Peterson and Tucker Carlson, just in case you don’t get the drift).
The Conservative leader has refused a security clearance necessary to receive a briefing on the details of the foreign interference charges.
This looks to me like an intelligence agency consolidation of control over government. Being elected is no longer enough authority. Facts in the public domain are no longer enough information for public inquiry or debate. This has been true for a long time, but it is interesting that it is being made explicit now.
Tonight while I was walking my dog I saw exactly something that I saw two months ago. It was in exactly the same place but last time it was somewhere between 6 and 8 pm. This time it was 10:15 pm.
This is what happened the first time around. I was walking past a house when I noticed that a car was inside the garage with the headlghts on and the brake lights on. But the car did not move and there was no movement inside the car. I figured that the most likely explination was that someone was on their car telephone. But I decided just in case that was not the case I would walk in a circle and come back past this house.
When I came back about 15 minutes later nothing had changed with the car. So I decided that I had to go inside the garage and see what was going on. Once I was able to look inside the drivers side window I saw an old man unconscious in the drivers seat. I tapped on the window to make sure that he was not asleep. That caused him to wake up. He assured me that he was ok that he had just fallen asleep in the car. i was naturally relieved.
Then tonight shortly after 10 pm I happened to be goinig past this house again. I saw exactly the same situation. The headlights of the car were on and the brake lights too. I paused for a few minutes trying to decide what to do. This time I just walked on.
But I have to ask, what type of person falls asleep in his car while that car is in the garage, next to his house where he has a perfectly good bed or at least a sofa to sleep on, twice (at least) in a two month time frame? And if a person wants to sleep in their car why leave the car lights on. If a person wants to listen to the radio in the car why leave the car lights on. I wonder if anyone is aware of this besides me? Should anyone be informed about this? Or, is it to trivial to inform someone about?
What would you do?
U.S. officials are extremely concerned about a potentially major security breach after two alleged U.S. intelligence documents about Israel’s preparations for an attack on Iran were published by a Telegram account affiliated with Iran.
Why it matters: The alleged leak comes as Israel completes weeks of preparations for a retaliation against Iran, which attacked Israel with a barrage of ballistic missiles on Oct. 1.
The leak could be an attempt to disrupt the Israeli operation.
The Pentagon and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment on the leaked documents, but did not dispute their authenticity.
Driving the news: A Telegram channel by the name “Middle East Spectator” claimed on Friday that it had received documents from a source in the U.S. intelligence community about Israel’s preparations for an attack on Iran.
The Telegram channel routinely publishes pro-Iranian content, and the profile of the X account affiliated with the channel says it is located in Iran.
The documents include an alleged Visual Intelligence report by the Department of Defense National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) distributed inside the U.S. intelligence community earlier this week.
The authenticity of the documents has not been independently verified by Axios.
The alleged report details measures that have been carried out in recent days at several Israeli Air Force bases, including the transfer of advanced munitions which, according to the report, were intended for an attack on Iran.
It also states that according to U.S. signals intelligence, the Israeli Air Force conducted a large exercise this week involving intelligence planes and likely fighter jets trained for a possible attack against Iran.
The alleged intelligence report also detailed preparations in Israeli drone units for an attack against Iran.
Between the lines: The report, if accurate, would suggest very close and detailed surveillance by U.S. intelligence of Israel’s preparations for an attack on Iran, including the use of satellites to spy on operations carried out at Israeli Air Force bases.
The potential leak could be the sign of very serious security breach within the U.S. intelligence community that resulted in top secret classified information reaching a Telegram channel affiliated with Iran.
What they’re saying: A U.S. official told Axios that the alleged leak is extremely concerning, but that he doesn’t believe it would influence Israel’s operational plans against Iran.
A senior Israeli official said that the Israeli defense establishment is aware of the alleged leak and takes it very seriously.
very serious breach — it is almost as if someone wanted to inject authentic information into the public discourse over the decision of a rabid regime to drag the U.S. into WWIII.
It could be that this man is so close to the edge of karoshi ( sudden overwork death . . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi ) that he has twice fallen instantly asleep in his car. Just a thought, however unlikely.
@bruce wilder,
Disappointing that this demand to submit to getting a clearance before being allowed to know something totally within the purview of any national-level elected officeholder is indeed disappointing, and an open declaration of whom the Intelligence Services believe deserves to govern. More disappointing is that this happened in Canada, which any number of American liberals have looked to as the Better Example to the North.
Kurt Kastens, first I’m glad you have a dog to walk.
Second, there’s nothing to do nor any mystery to unravel about an elderly man in a car in a garage with headlights on and a foot on the brake.
It’s his habitual pattern.
Substance involved? Old age? Who knows? Not much an outsider can do.
That you care is enough.
Now then, it has come to my attention that the creek is shit clogged and there are warring factions shitting voluminous quantities threatening everyone everywhere, upstream and downstream, humans and nonhumans alike.
Vote left or right, vote your conscience, doesn’t matter. Kiss your ass goodbye, if you can bend that far over.
No, man. I can’t leave it like that, all Debbie Downer.
I believe in faith, charity and trust and the goodness in the canine heart.
God bless Rover and Little Tim.
A few days ago, I commented on how the destruction of Libya and killing of Gaddafi opened the floodgate of African migrants to Europe. Here is a clip of Jimmy Dore interviewing Moussa Ibrahim on why NATO targeted and killed Gaddafi:
On Jimmy Dore: I’ve listened to him on and off for about a decade. He used to be a progressive who supported Bernie Sanders in 2016, but since then he has gradually become disillusioned with the Democratic Party and just America in general. Nowadays he is very radicalized.
IMO, based on what I’ve heard from him: he now believes that America is the greatest evil in the world, and that the American Empire is responsible for much of the wars, chaos, deaths and sufferings in the world, (i.e., he believes and talks about how the US provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine, and the US is directly responsible for the Gaza Genocide.) He is very openly anti-America. He seem to think America is irredeemable.
He has become an “accelerationist”, which is why he supports Trump: he believes another Trump presidency would “accelerate” the fall and destruction of the American Empire; the fastest America can collapse and self-destruct, the better it is for humanity and the rest of the world. i.e., so he puts the interests and survival of humanity above America.
I actually do not entirely disagree with him on that point. What I disagree with him is his COVID 19 pandemic conspiracies. He blame America for COVID 19 and believes America is somehow behind the virus, (i.e., he thinks the US government created the virus.) Nevertheless, his shows are quite fun and humorous, but be aware of his somewhat extremist and radical views.
Bruce, you should not map American perceptions of intelligence services and their influence onto the Canadian political / bureaucratic milieu. Canada’s “IC” is overwhelmingly security- and not intelligence-oriented and the mainstream part of it would have difficulty controlling lunch, let alone any element of government. There are pockets of competence out of that mainstream but they do not, in the day to day course of events, hold sway in PMO/PCO.
The open secret is that various types of influence operations related to electoral politics have been going on for approaching 30 years (probably longer, but that’s outside my direct knowledge) and every government of the day has looked away because it benefited their interests. The key difference now is that it benefits the immensely unpopular government of the day to posture about a small dimension of these. The parts of the phenomena they’re harping on are very much not the most important bits.
Regarding the supposed Iran leak, I was a bit weirded out that NGA was the originating agency (in my day they were DMA / NIMA), though it does make sense once one reads the source docs. Essentially, they can say that certain weapons stores were accessed and appear to be associated with activity around HASs corresponding to F15I basing and weapons generation. Additionally, there was activity related to a drone system, potentially a previously undisclosed system I would guess with long-range / low observable capability (otherwise I don’t know why they would mention it in the same report – also note that the disclosure marking is different). The weapons systems referenced are a bit weird (ALBMs, really?), but do make some sense in a specifically Israeli context.
Hopefully the security breech is real because that means there is at least someone in the intelligence and war agencies who doesn’t think WW3 would be a cool fun Hollywood joyride.
About 3 weeks ago there was an earthquake in northern Iran. When the seismograph of that is compared to past earthquakes and nuclear bomb tests it looks more like a nuclear bomb detonation than an earthquake.
—-
Trudeau goes full-McCarthy
—
Starmer in the UK is likewise jailing journalists who do not support the Gaza genocide. This is more direct that the approach the UK intelligence agencies used with The Guardian where they raided them to get them to goosestep.
The primary lesson from 1984 was stop the dystopian state from getting too far entrenched because then it will be to late. We’ll be there soon if we aren’t already.
Poilievre has proven dramatically that Canadian politics vis a vis the IC does not map to the U.S. pattern. The top leadership in the U.S. Congress jealously guard their security briefings as privileges, rarely acknowledging how that privileged access to “secrets” handicap their participation in public debate and public oversight.
The system of “classification” is a trap, as Poilievre is highlighting. The IC, naturally, provides experts to go on television denying that it is. That much is perfectly to form. The Security of Information Act applies explicitly to anyone granted a security clearance. I understand that Trudeau has proposed extensions to the Act with regard to so-called foreign influence offenses. Also to form.
There’s no way anywhere anybody can keep up with everything that’s going on—that’s a fool’s quest.
However, there are multitudes of experts on anything under the sun that might arouse your curiosity.
It’s just a scroll away scroll away/rape and murder/it’s just a scroll away . . .
Yeah. Gimme shelter.
Buena suerte as they say down south.
Here in the desert rain pounds down and the skylight above my bed leaks.
I’m listening to rain hit the roof and a metal bowl resting on plastic at the end of my bed.
Doesn’t mean anything.
To quote the Heart Sutra: form is emptiness, emptiness is no other than form, form is no other than
emptiness. . . .
That’s it for now.
Have to find a way to put something in the tip jar.
Grateful for the platform
It’s a nice story that Pierre is putting forth, but our information security system is a lot less restrictive than yours. This is particularly so when Parliamentarians and the media are involved – and when so much of the information being passed off as “sooper sekret intelligence” is actually open source.
“our information security system is a lot less restrictive than yours”
Pretty to think so, but not accurate. Your system is our system, but with the added punch of official secrets. Seeing “classified information” entails obligations that restrict further communication around that information, even if that information can be learned in other forums. You are not allowed to reveal or confirm.
Trudeau isn’t just trying to discomfit his opposition, he is trying to enact “foreign influence” as an offence.
It really pisses me off that Iran has not yet launched a massive preemptive strike on all US bases in the middle east including Israel. The Iranians are way way way more than justified in doing such a thing based upon Israeli threats and the preperations that the Israeli military has been making to attack Iran.
This is clearly a case of someone screaming that they are going to kill you and charging you with raised baseball bat in one hand and and Uzi machine gun in the other. If this does not justify the use of lethal force in self defence nothing does.
I can not say at all how successful such an attack would be. What I can say is that it would be more successful than waiting for the Israelis and the United States to draw first blood.
A second wave of attacks should be to string up the Saudi Royal Family and the Jordanian Royal family from bridges in the same manner that the US mercenaries in Iraq suffered almost 2o years ago. Damn how time flies. So many criminals escaoed the noose in those decades.
On a more human note I was at this flea market yesterday. And there was this little tiny Oriental girl about 3 years old walking through the crowd by herself actually. And she was shouting or singing Chiiiiina Chiiiina Chiiiina. I later saw her with her parents. (I assume because they were Oriental as well.)
Ok this story does not have anything to do with anything. It is just a cute story in my opinion that I want ot share.
Yes when Iran and Israel get bombed lots of cute kids are going to suffer. But the blame does not lay with me. It belongs to the parents of those Israeli children that support the Israili government and the parents of all the children in Europe and the United States that support the politicians that support Israel.
header: information on gardening/farming in dry hot-country climate.
Here is an article about still-known Southwest Desert Indian Nation knowledge of gardening/farming in desert climate situations, including what some of the Nations are doing right now today. The article itself offers links to further articles or sites which offer more such information.
Titled ” Native Americans’ farming practices may help feed a warming world”,
here is the link. https://archive.is/DBQxe
I think you may be mapping popular conceptions of the UK information security regime onto Canadian circumstances. This type of prosecution would be out in untested terrain where the government’s forays have, to date, been pretty unsuccessful. We’ve seen successful defences of journalists based on the information already being in the public domain – the notion that the courts wouldn’t afford a Parliamentarian the same benefit doesn’t seem to me to be very credible.
Based on what I have seen, our statutes (and prosecutions) are more focused on foreign disclosure than information security qua information security, as in the US. As an example, I would not worry about what I say to a Canadian government analyst related to imagery of IAF activities at Hatzorim, but I really would worry what I said to a US analyst given that NGA has leaked product in the wild.
“We’ve seen successful defences of journalists based on the information already being in the public domain – the notion that the courts wouldn’t afford a Parliamentarian the same benefit doesn’t seem to me to be very credible.”
Obviously, the so-called information, is NOT in the public domain.
The whole “foreign interference” accusation or slander, which the Premier both wields against the loyal opposition and not incidentally seeks to criminalize is a complete crock.
That the pattern of petty innuendo, fake “outrage” and lawfare has been imported from the United States and re-processed into peculiarly Canadian political culture, I have no doubt, but that’s not the issue to which I wished to draw attention.
Like it or not — I hope NOT — the intelligence services of Churchill’s English-speaking Peoples have amalgamated. When I say the system of classification and secret intelligence dissemination is the same across borders, I mean, identical. It is the Highlander Principle in action: “there can be only one”. In this scheme, Canada is “a net importer of ‘intelligence’” but that just makes the whole business more pernicious.
And when the British arrest people for speaking favorably of officially proscribed organizations — when there ARE officially proscribed organizations! — and the Canadian Prime Minister intimates that some number of Members of Parliament — and Jordan Peterson! for comedy value? — are dupes of unspecified “foreign interference”, I think it reasonable to be alarmed about the evolution of affairs in my own country, the center of empire as it were.
Canadian politics are going to be . . . well. . . Canadian. Lots of Nazi Ukrainians and Chinese non-refugees. Not my concern. I am more worried about the “cultural” straight-line from Clinton to Trudeau to Starmer to Harris or Trump/Vance. That’s a reach. I admit it. But, sometimes it is easier to see clearly in a distant mirror.
But, in my first comment, I wanted to draw attention to the way in which systems of classification undermine democratic deliberation. The U.S. maintains the equivalent of an intranet to distribute classified information to upwards of 2 million people. Very little is realistically secret, in other words. But, the legal regime of classification privileges a few at the expense of democratic deliberation and weaponizes baseless accusation.
Actually, I would bet a significant fraction of my net worth that a large majority of the information is in the public domain.* The notion that Mr. Poilievre can’t speak about this issue, which is predominantly *retrospective*, in sufficiently general terms not to run afoul of special operational information provisions is – to use your word – a crock.
Petty innuendo and faux outrage are not the imports here – we’ve run those as stock in trade for decades. What’s new here is the impulse towards supporting facile faux-populists (I would tar all the parties with this one) who run predominantly on culture-war issues imported from the US. Given that, the notion that we aren’t swimming in a soup of related IO flies in the face of reality. Look around this place – somewhere north of 80 – 90% of the stuff in the comments section is recycled social media bullshit. As it is on CBC and every other media outlet.
The causal vector here isn’t Trudeau -> Trump/Vance. It’s Internet-amplified bullshit / bullshit artists -> support for whatever populist-identifying dickhead can best identify and surf the waves of the day. The current reality is that much of the population for whom the war in Ukraine is a salient political issue wouldn’t, as an example, know which end of C8 goes against their shoulder, but they are utterly certain they fully (and frequently uniquely) understand whatever minute aspect of it is relevant to the debate of the moment. (Tactical, operational, strategic – they’re masters of all domains, just ask them.) They’ll support anyone who reinforces their concept of self, particularly as an intelligent, certain actor.
Classification systems are not the big thing undermining democratic deliberation. My view, the big thing is people’s preference for rhetoric that buttresses their preferred politically-constructed positions over admitting they might have incomplete knowledge, the issue might not have a clear resolution, or (I know this is a reach) they might be wrong. As an example, you’re telling me that the information handling procedures are “identical” across all of the Western agencies and using that to support a political view that is both explicitly partisan and sees government as being controlled by intelligence (apparently across the entire Western sphere). Is that view based on direct experience, or is it a politically-constructed belief?
* One of the things that people consistently fail to realize is that the big thing one gets with intelligence agencies isn’t secret information – it’s analyst time. Having a desk officer who is responsible for following an issue / region, collating raw data, organizing it into an intellectual framework and packaging it into intelligence product that a bunch of generalists can use is *the* key thing that one is buying here.
The notion that Mr. Poilievre can’t speak about this issue, which is predominantly *retrospective*, in sufficiently general terms not to run afoul of special operational information provisions is – to use your word – a crock.
He cannot once he has been briefed. Them’s the rules, bub. Design by Kafka. (and yes, I learned the rules by personal experience of handling classified information)
* One of the things that people consistently fail to realize is that the big thing one gets with intelligence agencies isn’t secret information – it’s analyst time. Having a desk officer who is responsible for following an issue / region, collating raw data, organizing it into an intellectual framework and packaging it into intelligence product that a bunch of generalists can use is *the* key thing that one is buying here.
Utterly ridiculous! What “one gets” is an excessive misuse of the verb, “assess” in public pronouncements of dubious merit and veracity. You want an intellectual framework to educate generalists? Endow a University Chair.
You think it is all out there in the public domain. Tell me then how Jordan Peterson has been subverted in a foreign influence operation. Details. Back up the Premier’s assertion.
Was that handling classified information under a Canadian legislative regime? As I keep saying, our system is a little different (not a lot, but a little) and American norms can’t necessarily be assumed to be the same. I can understand why you are saying what you’re saying about how constrained he would be, *if* he were working under American rules. If that *were* the case, I think your interpretation would quite correct. My issue is that he’s not – he’s working under Canadian rules and Canadian legal precedent – and in this particular context, I think that matters a lot.
With regards to the value one gets from intelligence, I think we’re closer to agreeing than you may realize. That said, I’m still going to hew to the notion that the bulk of what gets passed off as intelligence product is not secret, that the truly secret bits of it very frequently don’t have the explanatory power they are said to by those controlling access to them, and that most of the value add is organizing data and making it easy to digest.
I would bet that most of the stuff regarding Dr. Peterson is open sourced and I would further bet it’s thin as hell. Specifically I would bet that it boils down to him having gone to Russia for his drug treatment and that supposedly making him vulnerable to foreign influence, combined with patterns of who is amplifying whom and which messages on various platforms. The PM jumping from that to assertions of financial flows (which I suspect aren’t actually happening) would be pretty on brand for him. I would not be at all surprised to find he was relying on a briefing note prepared with no access to classified intelligence at all.
bruce wilder
Trudeau goes full-McCarthy on the Conservatives, using the “foreign interference” charge against politicians (but also in a gratuitous bonus round Jordan Peterson and Tucker Carlson, just in case you don’t get the drift).
The Conservative leader has refused a security clearance necessary to receive a briefing on the details of the foreign interference charges.
This looks to me like an intelligence agency consolidation of control over government. Being elected is no longer enough authority. Facts in the public domain are no longer enough information for public inquiry or debate. This has been true for a long time, but it is interesting that it is being made explicit now.
Curt Kastens
i would love to hear what Peter Attia has to say about this not yet peer reviewed study.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpwXswyt-zg
Curt Kastens
A Tiny Local Mystery
Tonight while I was walking my dog I saw exactly something that I saw two months ago. It was in exactly the same place but last time it was somewhere between 6 and 8 pm. This time it was 10:15 pm.
This is what happened the first time around. I was walking past a house when I noticed that a car was inside the garage with the headlghts on and the brake lights on. But the car did not move and there was no movement inside the car. I figured that the most likely explination was that someone was on their car telephone. But I decided just in case that was not the case I would walk in a circle and come back past this house.
When I came back about 15 minutes later nothing had changed with the car. So I decided that I had to go inside the garage and see what was going on. Once I was able to look inside the drivers side window I saw an old man unconscious in the drivers seat. I tapped on the window to make sure that he was not asleep. That caused him to wake up. He assured me that he was ok that he had just fallen asleep in the car. i was naturally relieved.
Then tonight shortly after 10 pm I happened to be goinig past this house again. I saw exactly the same situation. The headlights of the car were on and the brake lights too. I paused for a few minutes trying to decide what to do. This time I just walked on.
But I have to ask, what type of person falls asleep in his car while that car is in the garage, next to his house where he has a perfectly good bed or at least a sofa to sleep on, twice (at least) in a two month time frame? And if a person wants to sleep in their car why leave the car lights on. If a person wants to listen to the radio in the car why leave the car lights on. I wonder if anyone is aware of this besides me? Should anyone be informed about this? Or, is it to trivial to inform someone about?
What would you do?
Nate Wilcox
Is anyone following the story about alleged leaked documents detailing Israeli attack plans on Iran?
https://www.axios.com/2024/10/19/israel-iran-attack-telegram-leaked-intelligence
U.S. officials are extremely concerned about a potentially major security breach after two alleged U.S. intelligence documents about Israel’s preparations for an attack on Iran were published by a Telegram account affiliated with Iran.
Why it matters: The alleged leak comes as Israel completes weeks of preparations for a retaliation against Iran, which attacked Israel with a barrage of ballistic missiles on Oct. 1.
The leak could be an attempt to disrupt the Israeli operation.
The Pentagon and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence declined to comment on the leaked documents, but did not dispute their authenticity.
Driving the news: A Telegram channel by the name “Middle East Spectator” claimed on Friday that it had received documents from a source in the U.S. intelligence community about Israel’s preparations for an attack on Iran.
The Telegram channel routinely publishes pro-Iranian content, and the profile of the X account affiliated with the channel says it is located in Iran.
The documents include an alleged Visual Intelligence report by the Department of Defense National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) distributed inside the U.S. intelligence community earlier this week.
The authenticity of the documents has not been independently verified by Axios.
The alleged report details measures that have been carried out in recent days at several Israeli Air Force bases, including the transfer of advanced munitions which, according to the report, were intended for an attack on Iran.
It also states that according to U.S. signals intelligence, the Israeli Air Force conducted a large exercise this week involving intelligence planes and likely fighter jets trained for a possible attack against Iran.
The alleged intelligence report also detailed preparations in Israeli drone units for an attack against Iran.
Between the lines: The report, if accurate, would suggest very close and detailed surveillance by U.S. intelligence of Israel’s preparations for an attack on Iran, including the use of satellites to spy on operations carried out at Israeli Air Force bases.
The potential leak could be the sign of very serious security breach within the U.S. intelligence community that resulted in top secret classified information reaching a Telegram channel affiliated with Iran.
What they’re saying: A U.S. official told Axios that the alleged leak is extremely concerning, but that he doesn’t believe it would influence Israel’s operational plans against Iran.
A senior Israeli official said that the Israeli defense establishment is aware of the alleged leak and takes it very seriously.
bruce wilder
very serious breach — it is almost as if someone wanted to inject authentic information into the public discourse over the decision of a rabid regime to drag the U.S. into WWIII.
different clue
@Curt Kastens,
It could be that this man is so close to the edge of karoshi ( sudden overwork death . . .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi ) that he has twice fallen instantly asleep in his car. Just a thought, however unlikely.
@bruce wilder,
Disappointing that this demand to submit to getting a clearance before being allowed to know something totally within the purview of any national-level elected officeholder is indeed disappointing, and an open declaration of whom the Intelligence Services believe deserves to govern. More disappointing is that this happened in Canada, which any number of American liberals have looked to as the Better Example to the North.
mago
Kurt Kastens, first I’m glad you have a dog to walk.
Second, there’s nothing to do nor any mystery to unravel about an elderly man in a car in a garage with headlights on and a foot on the brake.
It’s his habitual pattern.
Substance involved? Old age? Who knows? Not much an outsider can do.
That you care is enough.
Now then, it has come to my attention that the creek is shit clogged and there are warring factions shitting voluminous quantities threatening everyone everywhere, upstream and downstream, humans and nonhumans alike.
Vote left or right, vote your conscience, doesn’t matter. Kiss your ass goodbye, if you can bend that far over.
No, man. I can’t leave it like that, all Debbie Downer.
I believe in faith, charity and trust and the goodness in the canine heart.
God bless Rover and Little Tim.
KT Chong
A few days ago, I commented on how the destruction of Libya and killing of Gaddafi opened the floodgate of African migrants to Europe. Here is a clip of Jimmy Dore interviewing Moussa Ibrahim on why NATO targeted and killed Gaddafi:
This Is Why Gaddafi Thought He Was Safe From An Overthrow! w/ Moussa Ibrahim:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHvMBstVlNI
KT Chong
On Jimmy Dore: I’ve listened to him on and off for about a decade. He used to be a progressive who supported Bernie Sanders in 2016, but since then he has gradually become disillusioned with the Democratic Party and just America in general. Nowadays he is very radicalized.
IMO, based on what I’ve heard from him: he now believes that America is the greatest evil in the world, and that the American Empire is responsible for much of the wars, chaos, deaths and sufferings in the world, (i.e., he believes and talks about how the US provoked Russia into attacking Ukraine, and the US is directly responsible for the Gaza Genocide.) He is very openly anti-America. He seem to think America is irredeemable.
He has become an “accelerationist”, which is why he supports Trump: he believes another Trump presidency would “accelerate” the fall and destruction of the American Empire; the fastest America can collapse and self-destruct, the better it is for humanity and the rest of the world. i.e., so he puts the interests and survival of humanity above America.
I actually do not entirely disagree with him on that point. What I disagree with him is his COVID 19 pandemic conspiracies. He blame America for COVID 19 and believes America is somehow behind the virus, (i.e., he thinks the US government created the virus.) Nevertheless, his shows are quite fun and humorous, but be aware of his somewhat extremist and radical views.
Carborundum
Bruce, you should not map American perceptions of intelligence services and their influence onto the Canadian political / bureaucratic milieu. Canada’s “IC” is overwhelmingly security- and not intelligence-oriented and the mainstream part of it would have difficulty controlling lunch, let alone any element of government. There are pockets of competence out of that mainstream but they do not, in the day to day course of events, hold sway in PMO/PCO.
The open secret is that various types of influence operations related to electoral politics have been going on for approaching 30 years (probably longer, but that’s outside my direct knowledge) and every government of the day has looked away because it benefited their interests. The key difference now is that it benefits the immensely unpopular government of the day to posture about a small dimension of these. The parts of the phenomena they’re harping on are very much not the most important bits.
Regarding the supposed Iran leak, I was a bit weirded out that NGA was the originating agency (in my day they were DMA / NIMA), though it does make sense once one reads the source docs. Essentially, they can say that certain weapons stores were accessed and appear to be associated with activity around HASs corresponding to F15I basing and weapons generation. Additionally, there was activity related to a drone system, potentially a previously undisclosed system I would guess with long-range / low observable capability (otherwise I don’t know why they would mention it in the same report – also note that the disclosure marking is different). The weapons systems referenced are a bit weird (ALBMs, really?), but do make some sense in a specifically Israeli context.
Oakchair
Hopefully the security breech is real because that means there is at least someone in the intelligence and war agencies who doesn’t think WW3 would be a cool fun Hollywood joyride.
About 3 weeks ago there was an earthquake in northern Iran. When the seismograph of that is compared to past earthquakes and nuclear bomb tests it looks more like a nuclear bomb detonation than an earthquake.
—-
Trudeau goes full-McCarthy
—
Starmer in the UK is likewise jailing journalists who do not support the Gaza genocide. This is more direct that the approach the UK intelligence agencies used with The Guardian where they raided them to get them to goosestep.
The primary lesson from 1984 was stop the dystopian state from getting too far entrenched because then it will be to late. We’ll be there soon if we aren’t already.
bruce wilder
@ Carborundum
Poilievre has proven dramatically that Canadian politics vis a vis the IC does not map to the U.S. pattern. The top leadership in the U.S. Congress jealously guard their security briefings as privileges, rarely acknowledging how that privileged access to “secrets” handicap their participation in public debate and public oversight.
The system of “classification” is a trap, as Poilievre is highlighting. The IC, naturally, provides experts to go on television denying that it is. That much is perfectly to form. The Security of Information Act applies explicitly to anyone granted a security clearance. I understand that Trudeau has proposed extensions to the Act with regard to so-called foreign influence offenses. Also to form.
mago
There’s no way anywhere anybody can keep up with everything that’s going on—that’s a fool’s quest.
However, there are multitudes of experts on anything under the sun that might arouse your curiosity.
It’s just a scroll away scroll away/rape and murder/it’s just a scroll away . . .
Yeah. Gimme shelter.
Buena suerte as they say down south.
Here in the desert rain pounds down and the skylight above my bed leaks.
I’m listening to rain hit the roof and a metal bowl resting on plastic at the end of my bed.
Doesn’t mean anything.
To quote the Heart Sutra: form is emptiness, emptiness is no other than form, form is no other than
emptiness. . . .
That’s it for now.
Have to find a way to put something in the tip jar.
Grateful for the platform
Carborundum
It’s a nice story that Pierre is putting forth, but our information security system is a lot less restrictive than yours. This is particularly so when Parliamentarians and the media are involved – and when so much of the information being passed off as “sooper sekret intelligence” is actually open source.
bruce wilder
“our information security system is a lot less restrictive than yours”
Pretty to think so, but not accurate. Your system is our system, but with the added punch of official secrets. Seeing “classified information” entails obligations that restrict further communication around that information, even if that information can be learned in other forums. You are not allowed to reveal or confirm.
Trudeau isn’t just trying to discomfit his opposition, he is trying to enact “foreign influence” as an offence.
Curt Kastens
It really pisses me off that Iran has not yet launched a massive preemptive strike on all US bases in the middle east including Israel. The Iranians are way way way more than justified in doing such a thing based upon Israeli threats and the preperations that the Israeli military has been making to attack Iran.
This is clearly a case of someone screaming that they are going to kill you and charging you with raised baseball bat in one hand and and Uzi machine gun in the other. If this does not justify the use of lethal force in self defence nothing does.
I can not say at all how successful such an attack would be. What I can say is that it would be more successful than waiting for the Israelis and the United States to draw first blood.
A second wave of attacks should be to string up the Saudi Royal Family and the Jordanian Royal family from bridges in the same manner that the US mercenaries in Iraq suffered almost 2o years ago. Damn how time flies. So many criminals escaoed the noose in those decades.
On a more human note I was at this flea market yesterday. And there was this little tiny Oriental girl about 3 years old walking through the crowd by herself actually. And she was shouting or singing Chiiiiina Chiiiina Chiiiina. I later saw her with her parents. (I assume because they were Oriental as well.)
Ok this story does not have anything to do with anything. It is just a cute story in my opinion that I want ot share.
Yes when Iran and Israel get bombed lots of cute kids are going to suffer. But the blame does not lay with me. It belongs to the parents of those Israeli children that support the Israili government and the parents of all the children in Europe and the United States that support the politicians that support Israel.
Curt Kastens
This is old news. But I would like to repeat it just in case someone has not heard it before.
Samsara is an acronym from the “simulation director” meaning Same Atitude Means Same Action Repeated Again.
It explains why humans are for the most part such slow learners,
different clue
header: information on gardening/farming in dry hot-country climate.
Here is an article about still-known Southwest Desert Indian Nation knowledge of gardening/farming in desert climate situations, including what some of the Nations are doing right now today. The article itself offers links to further articles or sites which offer more such information.
Titled ” Native Americans’ farming practices may help feed a warming world”,
here is the link.
https://archive.is/DBQxe
Carborundum
I think you may be mapping popular conceptions of the UK information security regime onto Canadian circumstances. This type of prosecution would be out in untested terrain where the government’s forays have, to date, been pretty unsuccessful. We’ve seen successful defences of journalists based on the information already being in the public domain – the notion that the courts wouldn’t afford a Parliamentarian the same benefit doesn’t seem to me to be very credible.
Based on what I have seen, our statutes (and prosecutions) are more focused on foreign disclosure than information security qua information security, as in the US. As an example, I would not worry about what I say to a Canadian government analyst related to imagery of IAF activities at Hatzorim, but I really would worry what I said to a US analyst given that NGA has leaked product in the wild.
brian wilder
“We’ve seen successful defences of journalists based on the information already being in the public domain – the notion that the courts wouldn’t afford a Parliamentarian the same benefit doesn’t seem to me to be very credible.”
Obviously, the so-called information, is NOT in the public domain.
bruce wilder
The whole “foreign interference” accusation or slander, which the Premier both wields against the loyal opposition and not incidentally seeks to criminalize is a complete crock.
That the pattern of petty innuendo, fake “outrage” and lawfare has been imported from the United States and re-processed into peculiarly Canadian political culture, I have no doubt, but that’s not the issue to which I wished to draw attention.
Like it or not — I hope NOT — the intelligence services of Churchill’s English-speaking Peoples have amalgamated. When I say the system of classification and secret intelligence dissemination is the same across borders, I mean, identical. It is the Highlander Principle in action: “there can be only one”. In this scheme, Canada is “a net importer of ‘intelligence’” but that just makes the whole business more pernicious.
And when the British arrest people for speaking favorably of officially proscribed organizations — when there ARE officially proscribed organizations! — and the Canadian Prime Minister intimates that some number of Members of Parliament — and Jordan Peterson! for comedy value? — are dupes of unspecified “foreign interference”, I think it reasonable to be alarmed about the evolution of affairs in my own country, the center of empire as it were.
Canadian politics are going to be . . . well. . . Canadian. Lots of Nazi Ukrainians and Chinese non-refugees. Not my concern. I am more worried about the “cultural” straight-line from Clinton to Trudeau to Starmer to Harris or Trump/Vance. That’s a reach. I admit it. But, sometimes it is easier to see clearly in a distant mirror.
But, in my first comment, I wanted to draw attention to the way in which systems of classification undermine democratic deliberation. The U.S. maintains the equivalent of an intranet to distribute classified information to upwards of 2 million people. Very little is realistically secret, in other words. But, the legal regime of classification privileges a few at the expense of democratic deliberation and weaponizes baseless accusation.
Carborundum
Actually, I would bet a significant fraction of my net worth that a large majority of the information is in the public domain.* The notion that Mr. Poilievre can’t speak about this issue, which is predominantly *retrospective*, in sufficiently general terms not to run afoul of special operational information provisions is – to use your word – a crock.
Petty innuendo and faux outrage are not the imports here – we’ve run those as stock in trade for decades. What’s new here is the impulse towards supporting facile faux-populists (I would tar all the parties with this one) who run predominantly on culture-war issues imported from the US. Given that, the notion that we aren’t swimming in a soup of related IO flies in the face of reality. Look around this place – somewhere north of 80 – 90% of the stuff in the comments section is recycled social media bullshit. As it is on CBC and every other media outlet.
The causal vector here isn’t Trudeau -> Trump/Vance. It’s Internet-amplified bullshit / bullshit artists -> support for whatever populist-identifying dickhead can best identify and surf the waves of the day. The current reality is that much of the population for whom the war in Ukraine is a salient political issue wouldn’t, as an example, know which end of C8 goes against their shoulder, but they are utterly certain they fully (and frequently uniquely) understand whatever minute aspect of it is relevant to the debate of the moment. (Tactical, operational, strategic – they’re masters of all domains, just ask them.) They’ll support anyone who reinforces their concept of self, particularly as an intelligent, certain actor.
Classification systems are not the big thing undermining democratic deliberation. My view, the big thing is people’s preference for rhetoric that buttresses their preferred politically-constructed positions over admitting they might have incomplete knowledge, the issue might not have a clear resolution, or (I know this is a reach) they might be wrong. As an example, you’re telling me that the information handling procedures are “identical” across all of the Western agencies and using that to support a political view that is both explicitly partisan and sees government as being controlled by intelligence (apparently across the entire Western sphere). Is that view based on direct experience, or is it a politically-constructed belief?
* One of the things that people consistently fail to realize is that the big thing one gets with intelligence agencies isn’t secret information – it’s analyst time. Having a desk officer who is responsible for following an issue / region, collating raw data, organizing it into an intellectual framework and packaging it into intelligence product that a bunch of generalists can use is *the* key thing that one is buying here.
bruce wilder
The notion that Mr. Poilievre can’t speak about this issue, which is predominantly *retrospective*, in sufficiently general terms not to run afoul of special operational information provisions is – to use your word – a crock.
He cannot once he has been briefed. Them’s the rules, bub. Design by Kafka. (and yes, I learned the rules by personal experience of handling classified information)
* One of the things that people consistently fail to realize is that the big thing one gets with intelligence agencies isn’t secret information – it’s analyst time. Having a desk officer who is responsible for following an issue / region, collating raw data, organizing it into an intellectual framework and packaging it into intelligence product that a bunch of generalists can use is *the* key thing that one is buying here.
Utterly ridiculous! What “one gets” is an excessive misuse of the verb, “assess” in public pronouncements of dubious merit and veracity. You want an intellectual framework to educate generalists? Endow a University Chair.
You think it is all out there in the public domain. Tell me then how Jordan Peterson has been subverted in a foreign influence operation. Details. Back up the Premier’s assertion.
Carborundum
Was that handling classified information under a Canadian legislative regime? As I keep saying, our system is a little different (not a lot, but a little) and American norms can’t necessarily be assumed to be the same. I can understand why you are saying what you’re saying about how constrained he would be, *if* he were working under American rules. If that *were* the case, I think your interpretation would quite correct. My issue is that he’s not – he’s working under Canadian rules and Canadian legal precedent – and in this particular context, I think that matters a lot.
With regards to the value one gets from intelligence, I think we’re closer to agreeing than you may realize. That said, I’m still going to hew to the notion that the bulk of what gets passed off as intelligence product is not secret, that the truly secret bits of it very frequently don’t have the explanatory power they are said to by those controlling access to them, and that most of the value add is organizing data and making it easy to digest.
I would bet that most of the stuff regarding Dr. Peterson is open sourced and I would further bet it’s thin as hell. Specifically I would bet that it boils down to him having gone to Russia for his drug treatment and that supposedly making him vulnerable to foreign influence, combined with patterns of who is amplifying whom and which messages on various platforms. The PM jumping from that to assertions of financial flows (which I suspect aren’t actually happening) would be pretty on brand for him. I would not be at all surprised to find he was relying on a briefing note prepared with no access to classified intelligence at all.
Curt Kastens
Wow, this needs a new open thread. Though there is probably not enough time left for humans for the full implact of this type of pollution to be felt by humans,
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/health/nutrition/a-new-plague-hits-europe-the-results-are-overwhelming/ar-AA1tr1tq?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3390d13315ed4d2caae896e00f4b177f&ei=13