The Philosophy of Decline and Collapse

Spot on.

The happiest, the most alive, the richest people are most often those with the least. They are the ones who will inherit the earth (or so it’s said).

I was trying to say something like this to the spousal unit just yesterday. Per usual, you said it much better.

Thank you Ian, I really needed that today. Probably will be a good post to come back to in days to come also.

I like. Not only that, but it’s disempowering and futile to try to force the ‘elites’, or those in charge, to do what you want. Either make definite plans, or just enjoy your time. The earth has suffered much worse catastrophes then what is happening now – such as the comet impacts.

Winnah!

a comment from someone at nakedcaptialism to a young person grieving about their future:

Comfort is overrated – it leads to dulling of the mind and body, which in itself leads to decline in family and society, which then leads us to where we are now in the west. I remember thinking back in the 90′s that the “success” of America at that point was nearly the worst that could happen to us, and look where we are now…. This could not happen to a people who were not collectively dull in mind and weak in spirit, not to mention short on critical thinking skills (also caused by not needing to think about much in a life of ease)

struggle brings good people closer together and crises focus the mind, so you can look forward to that. You are still quite young and life rewards strength of mind and body in ways that are not immediately obvious – so all I can say is enjoy good moments when they come, which they will no matter what else is going on. There will be pain that comes with transitioning from a weaker to a stronger condition, but this is a worthy pain that will result in a good feeling once you have passed through and stand on a higher plateau.

Good luck, you have the chance to be a hero. Somebody invariably will be – not everyone has to be cannon fodder.

(i’ve pasted it onto small pieces of paper and leave it around or hand it off…amazing the deep breaths it brings)

Very uplifting post. Thank you. Hatred is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Reminds me of Robert Lion’s letter called ‘doing better with less’ which ends with.

“Let’s stop claiming to dominate nature and the world; let’s stop making possession a superior end. Let’s put our cherished deviancies, such as the manufacture of desire and its bulimic satisfaction, back in their place.

Today’s progress must be situated on the side of being rather than of having.

Moreover, tending toward equitably-distributed wellbeing compatible with our planet’s capacities at home and toward helping the most destitute to live better supports rational growth. The measure of this new growth must be taken according to scales integrating the human and ecological impacts.

Let us dream: A politician takes the side of talking to us about the world as it is, as it risks becoming; he or she forecasts not sweat and tears, but difficult tomorrows; she or he proposes that we talk about it, as responsible citizens, and allows us to perceive robust paths along which to advance, with a smile, towards the era of less … A less that will consequently take on the character of better.”

Mr Putin seems to be only world leader talking this way, see:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/putins-speech-at-valdai-club-full.html

…exhales long and deeply, yes…

Ian thank you for this.

There are things you can fix and things you can’t, an individual is unlikely to be able to change “the system” alone. BUT if you want to make a huge difference to someone and leave a lot of happiness behind you then please take a child or children who need it under your wing.

You can adopt.

Or you can foster.

Or you can be a mentor.

Or you can sponsor a child.

There are huge numbers of children who desperately need an adult who will care about them The level of what you can do is up to you but believe me you’ll get back so much for what you put in.

To encourage you further:

Most of my children are adopted and in fact my grown children to my wonder and delight have followed me in this and now have more adopted children than kids they made themselves. This is a family tradition one can take great satisfaction in.

I was recently approached about adopting two further children and did so. (Which means that I now have grandchildren who are older than some of my children. This is a wonderful way of confusing the hell out of people and provides a lot of amusement to the children involved).

I don’t have any words to describe the love and joy that is a huge part of my life now that those children are in it. You get to think of and love them as your own very very quickly. And there’s no feeling on earth like hearing your son correcting his teacher’s description of you as “your dad” to “no, he’s my forever dad”.

As I say it doesn’t have to be adopting it can be as little as committing to meet a teenager for a cup of coffee and a walk in the park once a week. The level of care and commitment is up to you, you won’t change the world for the better for everyone but I guarantee you you’ll change it drastically for the better for the kid you care for.

mfi

A kind, thoughtful, and heartfelt reminder to us all, Ian. Thank you.

There are in this world things that are true and things that are false; there are ways that are right and ways that are wrong; there are good men and bad men. And on one side or anther we must make our stand; one or the other we must serve…We can only secure a better world, and abolish war, by having better men and women; there is no other way and no short cut..

Field Marshall Montgomery (Monty)

People can (and do) pontificate to others about ‘good’ and ethical behaviour all they want, it is your personal actions on a day to day level that counts. The extreme example of that is the preacher who goes on and on about ‘being good’ …who then rapes little boys….regularly. Another is the ‘liberal’ (in the US sense) that goes on about poor people…then votes to cut benefits for them….

My transitioning has really opened my eyes to a heck of a lot of people, some in a good way, some in a bad way, some in a horrible way. Some, who would claim to be ‘good’ are by their actions really quite horrible.

I’ll give a personal example (since they are always the best). One thing I have been amazed at (and been very hurt by) is the anger at me by some people that used to be very close friends by my transitioning. As though I stole something from them. One accused me of being very selfish in doing it, which is true to an extent, but so is the reverse in that they were also being very selfish in wanting me to remain as miserable (even suicidal at times) as I was to make them feel comfortable, but that is impossible for them to accept. I suspect some of them would have preferred for me to die, rather than make them uncomfortable, or maybe that is too black a thought, or maybe it is true.

I now realise I was a ‘shade’ to them, someone that did a role that they liked, rather than being a real person, with real feelings. As soon as I broke that ‘model’ then their reaction was anger and rejection, even strong feelings that I have betrayed them or taken something from them.

I think that one measure of a person is that if you cannot suppress your negative feelings about an aspect (harmless of course, not them being an axe murderer) of another person, so that they can have some happiness by a small, cost free action of yours…then you are yourself are a bad person. Because your selfishness is paramount to you..

I’ll give you another simple personal example of that.

My closest friend of 35 years has totally rejected me. When I was at my lowest ebb (pre transitioning and his rejection) his lovely little dog changed my life, he gave me a reason to live and at that time I had none whatsoever. Now that little dog is dying and I’d love to see him again and say goodbye. I have told his partner that (he wont communicate directly with me). But he and his partner won’t let it happen (she might, but is too scared to cross him).

It is such a trivial thing to him but so important to me and he knows it too and it could easily be organised without him actually having to see me. And I know if the positions were reversed I would do it, how could you deny that, a simple human action.

But his selfishness, or anger, means he cannot do it. Maybe he is just paying me out, I stole something from him so he taking something from me? Whatever the reason 35 years of friendship, through thick and thin, means nothing compared to his own internal feelings.

And that is a bad person and in many ways is the very definition of a bad person.

If you can’t do good things at the simple personal level to people that are, or once were, close to you, what hope can you have when trying to do them at the larger ones to total strangers?

None whatsoever because, in the end, your selfishness will drive you to do what makes you personally feel good, not what makes others feel good.

Apropos of nothing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOEIRI5HSuQ

(Talking Heads – “Nothing but Flowers”)

I thought that pain and truth were things that really mattered
But you can’t stay here with every single hope you had shattered

I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime

In a big country, dreams stay with you
Like a lover’s voice fires the mountainside
Stay alive

~ Big Country

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOgCjTXVnWk

Hmmmm….. http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/rothschilds-and-the-geoengineering-empire/

Right on partner…, write on.

Thanks Ian – needed this today. Long time reader, first time commenter.

mike
September 19, 2016

Whatever you’re smoking, drinking or eating; I want some…

@mike
I think what Ian Welsh is writing for here is the exact opposite of nihilism. This is an essay for life, against the nihilism and death driven logic of modern politics.

A wonderful article… and I agree wholeheartedly with what you’ve said and in the spirit in which you’ve said it… but one thing you said… just a small quip really, but one that stood out to me nonetheless… really bothers me… “Rage at those like Bush and Blair who were mass murderers.”… Please! Do not single out two murderous lying thieves while leaving all of the rest of the murderous lying thieves unaccountable… Name them all! Obama included… or better yet, for brevity, indict an entire system of murderous lying thieving bastards… because they all are part and parcel to a murderous lying thieving system that holds the world’s population in slavery and ignorance… that’s all… Happy International Peace day…

The benefits of hate. It depends on who you ask.

Hate keeps a man alive — it gives him strength.

Row well and live!!

And here I thought, and you thought, March Madness only referred to college basketball. Hardly, you sillies. It also, and especially, refers to record “non-combatant” (but certainly no longer innocent) deaths.

Strong leaders murder Innocents with impunity without batting an eye or flinching whatsoever. It’s trial not by fire, but by blood.

To lead effectively and to remain in Moloch’s good graces, a great leader must bath themselves in The Blood of Innocence/Innocents. Donald is doing just that despite the distracting Tweets.

The Stephen Miller Band
March 27, 2017

You are so fucked up as to defy understanding.
Please go away and free up this quality blog, instead of clogging it up with your garbage.
You’re a troll! Trying to hog all of the dialogue to your own favor.
Yell, scream, and hollar to the heavens; your shit is still shit!
Bye asshole…

@ Ian

I know you are trying in good faith to comfort your ‘flock,’ and it makes sense short=term to do so, I guess, but I can’t help but think that the Masters would very much like for everyone to take your advice. I think they know, or at least believe, that only rage, and the undiluted commitment to act on it, can ever threaten their position.

@ Ian

I understand what you are saying, and practice the same myself, because it seems so reasonable, but still it seems to me that only ‘unreasonable’ people will ever step up and do the fighting that might be necessary to get us out of this mess, so where are they supposed to come from?

‘Tis a conundrum.

Things are more awful than they ought to be; less awful than they have often been. Lower population does not necessarily result in better lives for marginalized populations.

That doesn’t justify anything that’s gone wrong, nor does it mitigate the evil in the world.

We’re always on the cusp of something better — or something worse. We should do what we can on behalf of our fellows, but what any individual can do is limited.

I read your piece and thought about some of my family background. Not poor or particularly downtrodden, lucky them. My mother’s father was “cut in two” in a rail yard incident in St. Louis, and her grandfather was murdered by his mistress. My father lost his wife — not my mother — in childbirth, and their son was severely brain damaged as a result.

Yet they did not suffer economic hardship during the Depression, they were were kind and generous (most of the time), and for both my parents, World War II was liberating, not the horror most of us know it must have been.

These are the kinds of things that influenced the individuals, families and communities of previous generations. The coming generations face many more hazards, worse in some ways than any previous ones. But mitigations — for some at least — will make them survivable or better.

We do what we can.

Absolutely great essay! I apparently missed this the first (two?) times(s) around; thank you for posting again.

To contribute my own little bit to making life more pleasurable for whoever views this thread in the future, I give you the following link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5WXyadtoZ0

(a pair of eagles from birth to one of them pre-flight getting fishing line wrapped around an ankle in the nest and nearly dying–and being rescued and restored to the nest by humans, doing something good! we can be, when we want, sometimes–to learning to fly; it’s about 4:36 iirc)

And my new thing for the last year or so, whenever all seems lost, is to think on this:
(start at the 2:54 mark and notice someone in red waaaay back who just gets further back as we go along waiting to switch runners)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVhjAXEyjMI

When all sane hope is gone, keep trying and maybe just maybe, something good will happen.

By the same token, I’d also remind everyone of two previous sporting events:

2004 Red Sox, down 3-0 to the Yankees in the best of 7 ALCS when no team had ever come back from 3-0 deficit and the Red Sox hadn’t been to the world series in like 100 years, trailing 4-3 in the 9th inning and the Yankees had arguably the best closer in the history of baseball pitching in Mariano Rivera, and the best hitters in the Red Sox lineup had already gone down in the 8th inning. Somehow, they came back, and brought it into extra innings. And it kept going and going into the 12th when David Ortiz won it for the Red Sox. Which still seemed futile because no one had ever come back from that deficit. And then the next game went to 14 or 15 innings, and the Red Sox won again. And again and completed the comeback sweep and then won 4-0 in the world series for their first championship in forever after overcoming seemingly hopeless odds.

I think it was the 88 World Series (I actually never watched baseball except the playoffs and only halfheartedly then, but the sport does lend itself to great moments) the Dodgers were down to their last out in the 9th inning of the first game against the A’s, and sent a badly limping Kirk Gibson out to pinch hit. This was basically win the game on a homer or lose, because he could barely walk, and I’m not exaggerating. It went to two strikes and he kept fouling it off time and time again. Doesn’t sound that dramatic here, but he did indeed knock in the home run, dirving in the tying run and hobbling around the bases for the victory. The Dodgers went on to win the series after that, as well.)

Yeah, it’s sports, not real life, but the lessons are applicable (and sports are part of real life for the particpants) (and stuff like this helped me come back or get through all sorts of more “real” and unpleasant bits of real life, so hoping it will help for some others)

What I think people ought to consider more fully is that it takes tremendous focus and dedication to ever go up against ‘The Machine’ in any risky way, and The Machine knows this very well, and systematically introduces a steady stream of stimulation designed to break and dilute that focus so that it never reaches critical mass.

This strategy has been tremendously effective, and probably will continue to be so. And they are constantly finding new ways to improve on the strategy. Because they know how necessary it is for their continued dominance over regular folks.

All the nice people I know insist on remaining in denial about this obvious truth.

I don’t know what the good answer is to this, but I do know that being in denial about it is the wrong answer.

@ anon y’mouse

I find it touching that you are so ready to accept a 38 year later investigation by an interested party as being authoritative.

That was a major shaping event of my young adulthood. I paid close attention to all the reporting and investigations around that event. Tons of detail.

I don’t share your view about it.

You don’t have to be a Trump hater to understand that public apathy toward crime victims was indeed a big problem in New York City at that time. I lived right nearby the Genovese crime scene, and can attest that apathy was a major issue of the day. Openly acknowledged by all New Yorkers as a matter of fact.

The Genovese case was the crescendo of that wave, IMO. For many, like me, the shame of that incident made it impossible to witness violent crime afterwards without helping the victim.

@ STMB

I’m not disagreeing with your thesis generally, just saying not everyone in NYC in the 1960’s was a Holocaust survivor, but all seemed to be subject to the deplorable blanket apathy I referred to.

As to your thesis, one has only so much energy to put out–when all of it is required just to make it through your day, you have none left to direct toward outside horrors, no matter how horrible they are.

That rule applied in the Holocaust camps, but we are not quite there yet in America, although I agree we may well be on our way in that direction.

I was amused by your zombie references–I’ve often thought the whole zombie craze is preparing us for what is coming, i.e., not zombies, but mindless savagery as we at the bottom struggle for survival after a systemic crash.

RC, I’m not taking umbrage with your observation & experience concerning 1960’s New York City. I was just trying to clarify why I made the point I did and how it relates to this blog post about rage & despair.

Apathy is the fertile ground for Malevolence to take root & grow bountifully. Once Malevolence grows to the point it’s superfluous, as was the case in Nazi Germany, then there is no place to run to and no where to hide. Malevolence will force a choice upon you, almost as though it’s a decision tree. You can quickly adopt an attitude of apathy, the same apathy that allowed Malevolence to flourish to begin with, and act as though nothing’s happening until it happens to you, or you can rage & despair and use that intensity to resist & fight the Malevolence and die trying or, if you don’t die trying, move on to the next stage — to The Netherworld beyond rage & despair where you are irrevocably damaged.

I grew up in upstate Eastern Pennsylvania in proximity to a small town called Dallas which is on the backside of one of the mountains flanking Wilkes-Barre and the Susquehanna River in the valley below. The neighborhood was replete with apathetic mothers (with a ton of kids) who didn’t give a shit about anything, or so it seemed. Mother’s Little Helpers comes to mind. They escaped to somewhere, or maybe they were never here, but either way, their indifference and apathy allowed Malevolence to flourish and that Malevolence manifested through the actions of their demonic children who were effectively wild animals gone wrong.

My parents were strict disciplinarians and when we did something wrong, we paid a yuuuge price. But the other kids in the neighborhood? They were cowardly thugs. It reminds of The White Ribbon and how the children, collectively, went wrong in that small German village.

Ironically, the families involved were both of German and Jewish origin and they were Monsters and Monstrous. One of them solicited my then ten year old sister to take her panties off for a cookie. She reported it to my parents and they summoned what was called The Law in those parts and there was nothing The Law could do — it was he said she said. There was no apology and no indication this pedophile rapist’s parents took the scum to task for his degeneracy. Why my father didn’t knock this teenager’s teeth slap out the backside of his head is a mystery.

Anyway, these families, or I should say the children of these families, decided to engage in a vendetta against my family and essentially terrorized us until we moved several years later. They broke multiple windows in our house on numerous occasions and they would chastise my father and get him to come out of the house where they would sit like cowards on our fence at the far end of the yard taunting him and calling him all kinds of names. I so wanted him to kill them. At that age, I wanted him to kill them. If I was older, I may have, but I was very young and they terrorized me too. If we had stayed there, I probably would have gone to jail because I would have delivered my own brand of Justice to the freaks. I came very close one day to throwing a large rock through one of the culprits picture windows (he had broken our window the week before). I’ll never forget Eleanor’s face, this prick’s mother, when I started the motion to throw the rock through her yuuuge picture window in her dining room. She was screaming and flailing and imploring me not to do it. I didn’t do it not because she protested so emphatically, but because I knew my father would beat the shit out of me if I did. He wouldn’t beat the shit out of them, but he’d beat the shit out of me. That’s still a bitter pill to swallow after all these years.

I guess my point with all of that about my childhood from the late sixties and early seventies is to say, it wasn’t just New York City that was screwed up. It was all over to include the Norman Rockwell hinterlands. I still have rage when I think about those freaks. I looked one up just last week, the pedophile’s sister who tried to run my sister over with her car several times after her pedophile brother tried to molest my sister, and I saw she had passed away several years prior. I was feeling rotten prior to seeing that and then, suddenly, I felt relieved. The Wicked Witch was dead. Anyone who could do what that bitch did, blame a ten-year-old girl for escaping the clutches of a pedophile and reporting it, is a diseased and toxic person who tarnishes all humanity. It’s good she’s dead. I feel better that she is and I’m not ashamed to say that.

Illegitimis non carborundum. Be kind and fight what needs to be fought.

Does anyone have a list of all, or even some, of these species that have died off because of human activities in recent history. Some names and pictures of these victims might help their cause.

Some folks were lucky, they always knew what matters most.

From Danish group Lukas Graham: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHCob76kigA

Once I was seven years old my momma told me
Go make yourself some friends or you’ll be lonely
Once I was seven years old
.
.
.
Once I was eleven years old my daddy told me
Go get yourself a wife or you’ll be lonely
Once I was eleven years old
.
.
.
I’m still learning about life
My woman brought children for me
So I can sing them all my songs
And I can tell them stories
Most of my boys are with me
Some are still out seeking glory
And some I had to leave behind
My brother I’m still sorry
.
.
.
Soon I’ll be sixty years old, will I think the world is cold
Or will I have a lot of children who can warm me
Soon I’ll be sixty years old
Soon I’ll be sixty years old, will I think the world is cold
Or will I have a lot of children who can warm me
Soon I’ll be sixty years old

Some parents know. If more were like them, what would the world be?

@Peter,

I don’t have a list, but a few species names just right here in North America come to mind . . .
Steller’s sea cow, sea mink, Labrador duck, passenger pigeon, carolina parakeet, Bachman’s warber, great auk, Rocky Mountain locust ( unless I am mis-informed), and no doubt others.

I guess thinking about collapse first require thinking about what kind of collapse might be coming and that we might be willing to face.

Is it where things are still on the same rails as they always have, except more decrepit. Life is harder, more people fall out of the class they thought they belong to, making ends meet become harder. We fall into our personal abyss one by one, the elite is so ossified that they actually believe the BS that they’re selling the rest of us because it’s easy and comforting and profitable for them, and gaps can be filled with metaphorical beatings to raise the morale. Anything coming after becomes a IBGYBG somebody else’s problem.

Is it where partial social collapse has happened? I’m thinking of places like Honduras and west Baltimore, where police are another gang and violence is indemic. Where services become unreliable and what we currently think of as a normal life is unobtainable by most. Are those gangs racist? Will you be targeted for being brown or black or Muslim or Chinese?

Is it our current path plus surveillance state and where we’re dominated by a small number of multinational corporations? Neofeudalism. We’re already a good ways there with Uber, Instacart, and gig economy. Will it accelerate so that the vast majority of the populate become out and out precarity?

Is it one level further, like what living in a country going through civil war (Iraq, Yemen). Disruption and violence mixed with oppressive military state, depending on time and place?

One level further – power vacuum without any central government at all. What would that even look like?

One level further – no central government plus plagues, nuclear war, radical climate change.

I don’t think that a collapse on the last 2 levels, in the US, is survivable for most people, even with *prepping*. Unlike most other countries that went through a collapse of centralized government, the US has very weak social fabric and safety net, and most people are a few paychecks and grocery runs of being completely destitute and desperate. It’s also full of guns and full of people on the left and right who live in fantasy realities.

Nice time capsule, Ian.

The short version of the advice I would give (and what I’m trying to do):

make yourself able to adapt to change, whatever that means where you are and with what you have.

As tired as we all are with (mostly bad) change, it’s important to remember that nothing in the universe lasts forever, and everything that is born/created also contains the seeds of its own destruction/ending. Or put another way, everything that is done always creates its own opposition, to maintain balance. This is the nature of the universe and of nature itself.

Part of this post seems to be about mental-spiritual hygeine through avoiding excess hate and rage over time and also enjoying one’s perfect right to afford whatever pleasures one can afford. And it is probably necessary to add ” without hurting someone else or denying someone else equal access to the same level of pleasures”.

So here’s an affordable pleasure. I first discovered it by accident during an eye exam. In the darkness, the eye doctor shines the tiny light into your eye to look around inside your eye. Somewhere during that, I started seeing sharply defined dark-shadow-colored branching tree-branch-like patterns.

I asked what those were and the doctor said they were shadows cast on my own retina by my own retinal blood vessels. We always see them at every waking instant, but the brain edits them out to avoid getting distracted by them. But playing a tiny bright light across them in otherwise-darkness makes them cast shadows on the immediately adjacent retina which makes them outline-visible.

So one can take one’s own tiny light and shine it around in one’s eyes in a dark room to see those same patterns. It doesn’t cost much.

We bought a place in the country fifteen years ago during the tail-end of the Bush-Cheney Regime because it seemed to us that civic life was deteriorating so fast that soon cities in California where we were would become unlivable. Sure enough. At least that’s the way it seemed the last time I was back there three years ago now.

We were lucky in that we had the money to buy a place in the country. Most people do not. We are in as remote a location as we thought we could take on given our age and multiple health issues. We have enough space to grow some veg and keep a few animals, but not enough to “farm.” There are farms and ranches nearby, however, and their proprietors have — so far — shown themselves to be generous and community minded. They are also Xtian Dominionists and Trumpists. Even the Catholics around here are mostly pro-Trump. Of course the Mormons are. Local politics, though, is not Trumpist. Local issues take priority.

We have friends who are not Trumpists, and we help and support one another however we can. There are plenty of people whose politics I don’t know or care to know who I think we could rely on as they could rely on us in a pinch.

Getting out of California, getting out of the city, has really affected the way we see and think about things, about what’s really important. But most people can’t do that; many don’t want to. Maybe they’re addicted to the constant shocks and upheavals. Maybe they’re just resigned to Whatever.

It’s been interesting to see who is moving out here since the advent of the pandemic. Some really seem to be shell shocked. Others are just grateful to be out of there — wherever “there” was. And a few see opportunities to make money as property values are rising fast.

@Che,

I went to San Francisco about 15 or so years ago for a cousin’s wedding. I stayed a few more days in Youth Hostel so I could see a tiny bit of things.

My impression was . . . California is so beautiful, no wonder so many people want to live there.
And will put up with so much to stay there. And so . . . no wonder the authorities will give them so much to put up with. As well as the inevitable degradation of beauty and niceness that goes along with population growth and economic growth.

So . . . property values are going up where you are? It sounds like you did not move far enough away from California. Perhaps you should have moved to Rabbit Bay, Michigan.

Good grief! Just checking my local weather forecast and saw a notice of critical fire weather for California, in January!

Here is a story about an isolated piece of good news.

https://www.lmtonline.com/business/article/Wind-overtook-coal-as-a-power-source-in-Texas-15875284.php

“Good grief! Just checking my local weather forecast and saw a notice of critical fire weather for California, in January!”

hard to enjoy the here and now if you are half the time choking on smoke, or dealing with 20 hurricanes a year or … Yea maybe just accept the suck?

Yes, the drought and fire risks certainly make California less appealing, especially at current prices. Also, it may just be my demographics, but everything has become more about money. We used to go hiking with coworkers and friends and share equipment and National Park passes. Now on one of our rare visits back, there’s lots of talking about money and money proximate things over fancy restaurant meals (our choice, we do like being able to afford nice things as long as we live outside of CA).

Luckily we our friends and family are still happy to host us in their homes and vice versa. Even the ones we don’t agree with politically.
We might just be lucky to have families that stick together despite disagreements, plus my in-laws are aggressively neutral people. I’m sure it helps that we’ve managed to avoid Facebook and most other social media, and keep our thoughts on politics to mostly to ourselves. It’s hard enough to get people to listen to garden advice (like, don’t plant bamboo in your backyard, ever!) so we know everything else is hopeless.

It’s easier and much more pleasant to find common areas of agreement and talk about that instead. If that fails, find some polite excuse to leave the room. These conversations are still helpful to understand the other person and build rapport, much like a good old fashion simian grooming session.

Speaking of gardening, the seed buying rush certainly hasn’t abated. Every place I buy seeds from has either stopped accepting new orders or is warning of severe delays. I’m happy about this as most seed houses (except several notoriously awful companies) are family run or cooperatively run, so score one for the good guys. I hope some of these new gardeners will keep at it and keep buying from the little guys, especially as many of these little guys are preserving traditional varieties and breeding more insect/disease tolerant open pollinated varieties.

Thanks Che. It now seems foolish to pay all that money and burn my ass on some crazy long flight with a crying baby behind me the whole time, just to brag about actually walking around the Roman Forum. I’ve even “been on” a few of the newer rides at Disneyland. A day pass to meatspace Disneyland (just the one park) is now $235. That’s a fivefold increase over the inflation rate.

I went through a year where there were freezing (“loading….”) problems between my Google Chromecaster, their Youtube, and my TV. I blamed my streaming neighbors, and/or Comcast and Google. The internet provided no reliable answers. But all of a sudden the problems stopped, and like magic, I had the normal functional service as promised. Still, I’m afraid to touch anything lest something blows up.

Different Clue,

That’s good information to note. I have a pretty good sense of the seed scene as I am very much a seed hoarder of many years. Gardening is an expensive hobby the way I do it, from sheer volume. Honestly I think very few people actually save money gardening, compared to just subscribing to a CSA for access to healthy in season veggies. But it’s rewarding and feels like safety, whether or not it is.

Plants have always fascinates me and I know my money is typically going directly to seed farmers or people who are very involved in the seed preservation scene. I keep waiting for the chance to buy a couple acres of flattish arable land (current house is on 2/3 acre but very hilly with many large trees) but I’m not sure it will happen. Our next move was supposed to get us there, then 2020 happened and now I’m thinking of moving abroad or buying a place in Atlantic Canada as a backup plan.

One thing I really miss about the West is relative lack of pests and diseases. On the east coast vegetable gardening is a constant fight against both. But at least we have water, and most of it hasn’t been tainted by fracking yet.

I’ll keep that in mind. I usually find my way by reading a lot of comments and bulletin boards. You can’t fake knowledge over the long haul, so over time I get a sense of who knows what they’re talking about and take their recommendations and pointers. In a pinch, Reddit works okay as a starting point though their discussions tend to get stuck at a shallow level.

In the absence of a largely functional society, garden skills will definitely not save gardeners. Most intensive gardening require regular watering and constant fertility inputs. Densely populated Asian agricultural societies got that way because they manage water and manure very intensely. Whenever war or natural disasters disrupt the local system, their carefully tended farmland quickly becomes wastelands.

So gardening is at best a supplement for hard but not too hard times. Assuming one can get access to water and decent soil, not crazy disease or critter pressure, one can grow veggies and maybe some fruit to eat during season, some beans/potato/squash/corn/roots/cabbage to store, maybe some pressured canned goods (yuck), and maybe some green through the winter with cold frames (or even without, mache and spinach will survive and grow in zone 6 winters without protection).

This is assuming that mortgages, taxes, etc. have largely inflated away so that we’re not at constant risk of eviction and homelessness.

@Astrid,

Thank you for the reply and those links. No . . . gardening won’t save us if the whole civilization goes Chernobyl. But it could help in the event of lesser partial collapses or shrinkdowns. And it can help us be happy in the meantime.

We live on the grids. The grids keep us alive and we keep the grids alive to keep us alive. If all the grids die most of us will die with them. If we reduce our demands and pressures on the grids we can help them survive longer enough to find our way through all this on the way to wherever.

And if so many of us live so much lighter on the grids than we are now living, the grid pressure on the earth and its biophysical cycles may lighten up enough to heighten the chances of long term surfacesphere eco-survival.

‘We’ have ten years?

“ . . . our best estimate is that the net energy
33:33 per barrel available for the global
33:36 economy was about eight percent
33:38 and that in over the next few years it
33:42 will go down to zero percent
33:44 uh best estimate at the moment is that
33:46 actually the
33:47 per average barrel of sweet crude
33:51 uh we had the zero percent around 2022
33:56 but there are ways and means of
33:58 extending that so to be on the safe side
34:00 here on our diagram
34:02 we say that zero percent is definitely
34:05 around 2030 . . .
we
34:43 need net energy from oil and [if] it goes
34:46 down to zero
34:48 uh well we have collapsed not just
34:50 collapse of the oil industry
34:52 we have collapsed globally of the global
34:54 industrial civilization this is what we
34:56 are looking at at the moment . . . “

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxinAu8ORxM&feature=emb_logo

I’ve probably read thousands of garden books and own hundreds (most from “friends of library” sales but many I paid near full price for). I’m not sure there are many that I regularly refer to. Honestly I’ve came up with a system that mostly works for me. I tweak it every so often and incorporate new ideas I see online or in books. For plant specific advice, Johnny’s Select Seed and Southern Exposure Seed Company probably has the best growing advice for the East Coast. For perennials/shrubs/and trees, specialist growers and specialist boards will likely provide the best advice. For general information, Gardenweb (interface and ads suck now but) still has archives full of opinions and advice on pretty much every garden topic you can think of.

What works for me (keep in mind that I’m only intensively gardening on about 3,000 sqft total) is an initial dig to get rid of turf and tough perennials, ideally followed by a crop of green manure to compete out the annual weeds (I’ve never actually gotten around to planting green manure because I’m that land hungry), followed by building no-dig rows with 4-6″ of compost. I don’t have a lot of problems with weeds, just don’t let them go to seed and they’re easy to control except for bindweeds. I get free compost at my community garden and very cheap wood chip and compost from my municipality, so I top dress my beds every year with compost and/or wood chips in the spring and compost or fallen leaves in the fall. Most other people may have more land and less access to woodchips/compost, so green manure should be more important to their soil building scheme.

For books – I recommend checking these books out from the public library before buying any of them, then sign up for emails on their publisher’s website. Chelsea Green is one of my favorite publishers and runs good sales regularly. Mostly, I like these books because they feel lived in. Not just lists and schematics and solutions, but people who actually experienced triumphs and failures in their gardening/farming:

Timber Press’s Regional Vegetable Garden Guides are pretty good general guide

The Flower Farmer by Lynn Byczynski is good if you’re consider going into business on some scale (I am not)

Carol Deppe’s books are all very good and helpful in practically thinking about self sufficiency

The Market Gardener by Jean-Martin Fortier has some excellent innovations on doing things efficiently and writes clearly. Elliot Coleman can also be good, but I feel he’s prosyltizing too much on his ways.

The Backyard Homestead is a good starter guide for thinking about all pieces of a homestead including orcharding, cereals, animal husbandry, etc. But you’ll need to fill in the gaps. Think of it as the updated US counterpart to John Seymour’s Self Sufficient Gardener.

Sunset’s Western Garden Book, if you’re anywhere out west or even if you’re not. Sunset zones make much more sense than USDA zones in the west.

A good book on pruning – Lee Reich’s book is decent

Ed Smith’s The Vegetable Gardener’s Bible is a good one for home gardeners

If you’re interested in orcharding, a couple orcharding books and at least one that covers grafting.

Vita Sackville-West’s The Illustrated Garden Book – comfort reading for me, the reason why I have 150 rose bushes in my yard and 400 rooting cuttings in my bathroom.

An American Cutting Garden by Suzanne McIntire – her observations ring very true to someone who also gardened in DC area community gardens.

Rodale’s Illustrated Encyclopedia of Herbs – this is the most sensible and practically minded books on the subject

I listen to the Davis Garden Show (Davis, CA), Garden Basics with Farmer Fred (Sacramento, CA), and A Way to Garden (near the Berkshires on the New York State side) on podcast. They have mostly sooth voices and sensible advice.

Sure, anatomically modern humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years, largely peaceably with nature. But then someone figured out a more efficient way to hunt and killed off almost all North American megafauna in maybe a thousand years. Then someone else figured out agriculture and replaced the egalitarian and healthier hunter-gatherer population. Then came megastates, some of which reached a working stasis, albeit ones that are puncuated by periodic declines and wars, before they were ripped apart for scraps by the more malignant European strain, itself then replaced by the more malignant USian strain. Humanity works just like cancers, the first few mutations are relatively harmless or limited in effect, but there’s selection pressure to always result in the most malignant form, until you get the version that will quickly kill the host (not the Earth or its biosphere, but the biosphere that can support human life).

Just because we can theoretically live in peace with the environment and each other doesn’t mean we will, and those who live in peacefully will be wiped out by those who do not play nice.