Bannon Out

A quibble, Ian—

” . . . Trump’s speech on Charlottesville, with its equivalence between Nazis and and people protesting Nazis.”

That does not seem to me to be a fair characterization of what Trump was saying, or of what I would think based on what we know of the behavior of these antifa thugs since the election, and what is visible in the available videos.

There was no “equivalence,” because he was assessing the behaviors, not the spiritual qualities of the opponents.

It seems to me that there was, indeed, blame to be spread around, including that of the police and McAuliffe, all of whom really seemed to want to see this situation get violent. Disturbingly, you are echoing the mainstream media on this, which I think is usually a big mistake.

I note that Yves Smith closed all comment threads because she could not stand having some people challenge this “equivalence” meme. I would not want to see you leaning toward folks who think like her.

I think it is foolishly naive if anyone believes the antifa folks were not looking and hoping for trouble. They have benefited greatly every time they created violent spectacles against righties.

Every participant in a situation contributes to the situation. This binary way of making one side pure evil and the other pure saintly is bullshit when dealing with actual human beings as opposed to popular stereotypes.

Your honesty is what makes you special to folks like me. Stay strong, please.

I don’t want Presidents making statements about every incident. I want Presidents busy addressing the most urgent issues facing Humanity & The Planet. It’s Paternalism that requires we beseech Daddy President to console us when we stub our toe or bang our elbow. F*ck that!! Grow the hell up, PEOPLE, and let Presidents do the REAL WORK if you can find one willing to rather than Pandering & Preening.

@ Ten Bears

Word.

Best case is if we get to watch both those enemies destroy each other.

Maybe then our side gets a chance to win something.

Serious query: If whites will indeed be a minority here by 2040-2050, is it completely illegitimate for whites to speak about their concerns as an ethnic demographic, just like all other ethnic demographics get to do? (Let’s say they are not Nazis, but just concerned whites. Can they do the kinds of things other groups get to do, or can’t they?)

Why or why not?

Ian, I submit that you don’t know what Bannon is for or not for as he, like Trump, changes his beliefs to suit the audience/situation.

He, like Trump and many of their fans, is adept at psychological and emotional manipulation. It works on some, not on many.

What they are for and/or against is a “known unknown.”

There is not a lot of equivalence or blame to spread around when it is a question of your fist and my nose. Not every argument has two sides. Trump was going for a Big Lie when he said that fine people march with N*zis and white supremacists.

Bannon was a particular type of American fascist. Fascism can have populist elements, but in its essence it is about sacrificing the needs of the people to some greater goal. It says a lot about Trump that he had and kept Bannon so close to him for so long.

While Bannon certainly did his part to promote and contribute to the godawful train wreck that is the Trump Presidency, the black hole at the center of all the chaos, incompetence, and malevolence we are seeing remains Trump himself. And like so many in this Administration, his downfall did not come about because of any of that but rather, like his boss, he did not know when simply to shut the fuck up.

I think Bannon had very little effect on policy. Trump has filled what positions he has filled with hard core conservatives, not populists. Bannon’s presence in the White House seemed mainly about atmospherics, a way to placate a certain segment of what Trump saw as his base, white working class voters, without actually giving them anything. That Trump sees this group as a bunch of racist yokels and rubes who could and can be bought off with various dogwhistles says a lot about Trump. This group has legitimate concerns and grievances and is looking for substantial positive change from Trump. They are not going to get it, and they will peel off from him. Their problem is that they have no real place to go with the Democratic party being a party that stands for nothing, and certainly not them.

I am ambivalent about the choice between the chaotic, ineffectual malevolence of Trump versus the more effective, considered malevolence of Pence. Trump can limp by with approval ratings in the mid-thirties, but he has the potential, really the certainty, of many more embarrassing idiocies in the future as well as the specter of the Mueller investigation. He will not win re-election with such numbers. And if his approval ratings start dipping into the upper to mid- twenties, a drop really of only ten percent from where he is now, the likelihood of the Republican Establishment abandoning and/or moving against him increases exponentially. This is because about 25% of the electorate are reflex Republicans. They will vote for anyone with an “R” after their name, and that name, of course, does not have to be Trump.

@realitychecker “I think it is foolishly naive if anyone believes the antifa folks were not looking and hoping for trouble.”

That is their MO. I recommend this excellent summary and analysis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpvOy3xblgg , by “left anarchist Keith Preston”, who, I must admit, I’ve never heard of, before today. According to Preston, at an organizational level, only antifa (and unnamed similar groups) went to Charlottesville INTENDING to riot.

Republicans in Congress seem to have largely gone wobbly in the face of the media assault. If so, then I would have to consider this a victory for antifa, at least so far. Trump was also implicitly smeared by #nevertrump ‘er Mitt Romney, today, who said, Trump should “State forcefully and unequivocally that racists are 100% to blame for the murder and violence in Charlottesville.” https://www.facebook.com/mittromney/posts/10154652303536121

If you listen to the analysis I posted a link to, you’ll see this is a lie. Besides antifa, the police went AWOL for 2 hours, immediately after “dispersing the 2 sides into each other”. Thus ensued the height of the violence. Apparently, Sessions and DOJ WILL investigate the failings of the police department to do their job, not just rioters from both sides. IMNSHO, the police decision makers (and probably a political superior or two) are the most culpable for the violence, and violations of civil liberties of both sides, who sought no physical conflict. If I’m correct, and this was a Deep State false flag type of destabilization, the chain of culpability should go even higher. Good luck with that, Jeff Sessions….

Re Naked Capitalism, a great way for a site to kill itself off is for the site owner to go to war against those who use it and comment on it. Sites like Naked Capitalism become communities and that community is expressed in the comment threads. Site owners do not own that community. They are rather stewards of it and have responsibilities to it. So if anybody wants to do Yves a favor, they should tell her to turn comments back on, not write any great defense of her actions or continue to threaten them, just a simple “I apologize to my commenters. Comments are back on.”

This is hardly the first time. For those of us who remember the decline and demise of firedoglake, that was a site where its posters, mostly mainstream Democrats, became increasingly out of touch with and hostile toward its commenting community which was much more progressive.

“left anarchist Keith Preston”, who, I must admit, I’ve never heard of, before today.

I hadn’t, either. This was pretty much all I needed to know, though: https://antifascistnews.net/2015/10/23/letter-to-keith-preston-no-youre-not-an-anarchist/

@realitychecker

“I would add that I have no doubt there were thugs and assholes on both sides that day, as well as some decent people on both sides.”

Decent people don’t march side-by-side with Nazis. If you do that, you are by definition, not a decent person.

@realitychecker:

Oh, and by the way, we’re still looking for those “very fine people” who were just “quietly protesting” the removal of a statue. Stephen Hayes couldn’t find them.

“It’s hard to find video—from the truly bad people in the news media or from participants—that shows these very fine people protesting only the removal of the statue. So I asked Christopher Suarez, a reporter with the Charlottesville Daily Progress, if he saw the people Trump described when he covered the rallies over the weekend. Suarez was there from the beginning to the end of these events and, in addition to his work for the paper, captured them on a near minute-to-minute basis on Twitter, walking Friday night with the torchbearers from a stadium where they gathered beforehand to the torchlit rally before the statue. Suarez couldn’t say for sure how many of the people he encountered last weekend were very fine or innocent or unaffiliated with white supremacist or neo-Nazis. “Most of them were in the white collared shirt and khaki pants ‘uniform’ of the white supremacist groups,” he said. “I think it’s safe to say that wearing those clothes at a rally like that means you know exactly what these event organizers and leaders believe. They aren’t heritage groups. It’s about more than just Lee.”

An email quoted by the Wall Street Journal’s James Freeman supports Suarez’s account. The email comes from a source close to the Monument Fund, a Charlottesville-based nonprofit dedicated to preserving some Confederate-themed monuments and adding more balanced historical explanations to the sites. “Nobody from our group attended the protests or counter-protests,” the source tells Freeman. “We all stayed away. As everybody should have done.”

^ I forgot to add: More venal and corrupt as well. If you thought previous administrations and regular pols were corrupt, Trumps blows past them in that department.

@ NR

“Decent people don’t march side-by-side with Nazis. If you do that, you are by definition, not a decent person.”

Is that what they told you in kindergarten? Let me show you how ridiculous that statement is:

Decent people don’t march side-by-side with anarcho-fascist thugs. The Heyer woman who died was marching with anarcho-fascist thugs. Therefore, you must believe she was not a decent person. Ditto anyone who showed up at Berkeley and other places to shut down unapproved speakers, along with the masked antifa thugs. Right? Grow up. That’s embarrassing.

And to illuminate things further for you, you know those sources you cite because apparently you think I should accept their testimony in preference to my own sound judgment after viewing many of the innumerable videos taken in real time and available on-line?

Anybody who has been paying attention knows that Stephen Hayes (former editor Weekly Standard) and the Wall Street Journal represent the Republican Establishment, which hates Trump and never misses an opportunity to down him because he is not Jeb Bush, their preferred candidate. Christopher Suarez is such a nobody that wikipedia doesn’t even know him, but S-U-A-R-E-Z might give you a clue about his sentiments vis a vis Trump; in case that is not sufficient, are you aware who owns The Daily Progress newspaper (the only daily in Charlottesville)? Berkshire Hathaway, since 2012. I presume you have heard of Warren Buffett?

If you are going to play this game, you need to at least learn who the players are.

Way back in the day, I was for a time a Civil War buff of sorts, and those who identified with the Confederates always annoyed me. Robert E Lee was a saint to some of these people. I protested (letter-writing) various efforts to get national honors for traitors. Jefferson Davis Highway, my ass! I spent many hours arguing states rights in great detail with other enthusiasts confused in their loyalties.

I got to a point where I could make the arguments of the latter-day Confederates better than most who sincerely espoused them. I understood their point of view, became accustomed to their blind spots and favorite made-up “facts”.

I could not do anything like that with the likes of Bannon or, say, a ratfucker like Roger Stone mentioned up thread. I do not understand their views of politics. I could not confirm or deny that Bannon is some flavor of “white nationalist”. I simply do understand the mentalities.

I think I recognize Trump’s reaction to Charlottesville, though. A military school brat: Robert E Lee was a hero. Superficial and sincere and conventional and ignorant.

Trump’s great strength politically is that he talks like “a normal person”, or at least some recognizable species of “normal” as opposed to a politician who speaks in a code dictated by the fake-outrage Wurlitzers of the political mass media. I am not saying I personally like it (he sounds like a slightly demented third-grader to my ear), or that I overlook his playing loose with facts or his superficial understanding of issues. But, I do not see any merit in the way Clinton talked; I can even see why people not familiar with the conventions would dismiss Clinton-speak as difficult to parse or nonsense or even a string of lies.

My point is that the Trump Administration has been subject to a soft coup. The Administration is effectively in the hands of a military junta supported by reactionary business interests. At least, that seems a reasonable hypothesis for interpreting recent developments and the course ahead. Charlottesville is being used by the Republican establishment to impose message discipline of a kind on Trump, even as a very tight faction in uniform tames the military school brat. Trump is being schooled.

I do not think what Trump has actually said merits the outrage from the left, from the Democratic establishment or the Republican establishment. Especially with regard to the two Party establishments, I do not forget that they are OK with torture and aggressive war, lies about wmd, and stealing by banksters. From Republicans especially this new taboo on racists seems a bit unbelievable. Ten minutes ago, most Republicans would be drawing false equivalence between the militia types and antifa, imitating Trump’s circumlocutions and much worse in a wink and a nod at a Republican base.

But, getting Trump’s mouth corralled is job 1. They cannot have him mentioning to a public sick of paying the bills in blood and treasure that the military have lost the war(s) in the middle east. Out of the mouths of babes, drunks and idiots, veritas. Truth. Common-sense. Cannot have any of that at the top.

Bannon, whatever else he may be, clearly supported Trump’s loose and impulsive rhetorical style. It might have been support for a vision of truth-telling and “truth” I could never agree with, but I also understand that none of “the serious people” in power are interested in truth-telling, either.

There was an opening there — in Bannon and his soi disant nationalism — that most certainly is not available from the Clinton establishment on the Democratic side. And, that opening is being closed by methodical purposeful hands, hands that do not care much about racism per se.

Much of the left apparently feels repulsed by nationalism and patriotism. That is certainly convenient for a cosmopolitan, who benefits from a globalization that delivers despair for the uncomprehending deplorables.

What I thought when I saw the news about Charlottesville and the political ranting and attempt at a moral panic was how silly it all is. The neo-Nazi’s are angry people. Maybe because anger feels better than shame. I do not know. Maybe it is cosplay for some of them. I am sure that a mix of motives are in play on the other side too. Antifa is a very, very silly business too though I will allow that they show somewhat better taste in choosing sides. ( I have met some black bloc anarchists and they tend to be really unpleasant people while many espoused racists I have known can be goofily affable and very warm and helpful one on one. So go figure.)

But, with all the political and economic problems facing this country, this is where you take your stand??!

And, given the serious deficiencies in public morality demonstrated in the country’s policy, domestic and foreign, what is it that you seek to change institutionally and what is your strategy for persuading others to support that change?

I cannot reject on the evidence available two troubling hypotheses.

One is that BLM, Antifa, and other “movements” are not moving at all. They look backward and want to re-enact an imagined but poorly understood struggle of the past, to experience from participating the imagined virtue of personalities past. And the other is that they aim for a moral transformation of individual consciousness: the aim is press home the insight that slavery, or racism or Nazi’s are unambiguously wrong so that a person possessed of this insight will simply turn away or shun these behaviors as impure.

It seems an oddly incomplete vision of human nature as well as social justice. In its frame a statue of General Lee, undoubtedly installed on behalf of people supportive of “a way of life” (or some similar euphemism for deriving sustenance, privilege and status from injustice), looms large. But, where is the politics of structure, where is confronting power with power?

realitychecker, the language I was quoting is from the Supreme Court opinion. The Court held that inciting violence or lawless action was protected speech as long as such incitement did not result in, or was likely to result in, imminent violence or lawlessness. There may be some gray areas but overall the difference is stark.

Protected speech: “We should kill all the _______ (fill in the blank).
Not Protected: “I’ve got my gun. You’ve got yours. Let’s go kill some _______ (fill in the blank).

There is also a significant difference between someone who may want to engage in a shoving match or throw a few punches and people with guns and cars they run into crowds. It is a false equivalence to equate the two.

You have an odd idea about what constitutes “historical”. Most of the statues in question were erected not in the aftermath of the Civil War but 70 years later in the Jim Crow era mostly in the South. They were placed as official symbols of an official system of segregation. So it is disingenuous to assert that they are now apolitical commemorations.

@ Hugh

I did not misunderstand you. The concept of incitement is itself problematic, and I stand by my comment. If the incitement is deemed to be imminent, why is it imminent, i.e., as where the antifa shows up with the intent of feeling “incited.” Why is that not a failure of self-control being evidenced by the antifa crowd? That is the context of the present situation. The righties are being acuused of inciting the antifa, not the other righties. Get it now?

Noone is defending the car homicide. Nobody used a gun. Let’s stay focused here. I’ve seen lots of videos now, and the antifa guys were just as eager to engage as the righties. It’s obvious.

Re historical: It’s interesting to me to see people who hate what the locals liked (evidenced by the fact that they erected these statues), and decide they will insist they be torn down. Especially when there seems to be no logical way to set an end point. What if others want to remove statues and monuments to heroes of the left? Is that OK, too? That is the ISIS position, anyone with power can destroy and cast into the memory hole whatever they disapprove of. Orwell tried to warn us against that. Do you think he was wrong to worry about it?

Realitychecker: Ad hominem attacks are weak and usually show that the attacker doesn’t have good arguments.

Are you going to argue that Trump isn’t vindictive and narcissistic and has no moral center?

Or do you plan to argue that the Trump administration actually isn’t standard Republican except more racist, more corrupt, meaner, and massively more incompetent?

Did you hear the one about the NAZI that took nine of his buddies to the bar? Bartender said “what are those ten NAZIs doing in my bar?

The Bannon situation probably proves that it is very hard to try to mix traditional Republican business conservatism with authentic right-wing populism that is willing to give ordinary people some benefits in exchange for other parts of the populist-nationalist program. The business class in this country has no interest in conceding anything to Bannon types especially when the Republicans have been quite successful gaining state houses and Congress without Trump.

The only thing stopping the Republicans from impeaching Trump and replacing him with Pence (who would almost certainly get along with the Congressional GOP better than Trump) is the fear of Trump’s hardcore supporters showing up at their offices, possibly armed.

The Democrats and left-wingers should be worried about a more competent and streamlined Trump administration or a possible Pence administration. Pence would be far more competent than Trump, thus more damaging.

Herman: A more competent Trump administration is pretty much outside of our reality as it exists and in the realm of sci-fi/fantasy.

Pence is more competent. Whether that is more damaging depends on events. For instance, he may be able to overturn Obamacare, but that would mean an even bigger GOP wipeout in ’18 and ’20. And would you rather have a major crisis with Trump or Pence in charge? In any case, short of Trump being assassinated, it’s hard for me to think of a scenario where Trump is gone but Pence isn’t a seriously wounded President a la Gerald Ford.

@ Richard

Your appeal to Krugman as authority showed me you are a happy neoliberal who is at least ten years behind the times, so there is no way I can take anything you say seriously. Sorry. You should be happy-Trump has all the same Goldman Sachs people running things as Hillary would have had.

Some people never learn, and you appear to be one of them.

All high level politicians are nasty vindictive lying narcissists. Especially Hillary, who I am sure you voted for.

Just spare me.

@rc, it seems to me that, for all your talk about “revolution”, what you’re doing on this thread, perceiving the truth and speaking it plainly, is more valuable. There’s not going to be a revolution, because the West has exhausted its store of ideas.

Where’s the revolutionary fervor today? Did you think the left cared about health care and Wall Street? You were fooled. Look at what really gets them exercised: tearing down white-supremacy statues, keeping open the floodgates of migration from the 3rd world. The fervor of new life is to be found in Asiatic and African man, in his desire finally to overthrow the white man’s world. They’re joined by a mob of atomized and deracinated whites, in some kind of demonic trance clamoring to dash to the ground everything their grandfathers built.

The revolution finally disperses the last holdouts, and calls a new Constitutional Convention. What do they come up with? Can you imagine? I don’t know what that conjures up for you, but it has me wanting to flee to the furthest monastery I can find. What we need is not a revolution, but a restoration, if we still have it in us.

@ BoO

I want a revolution so we can have safer safe spaces, of course lol.

Freedom? What’s that?

@Some Guy:

I hope you’re not laboring under the illusion that realitychecker and his ilk will oppose the oligarchs in any meaningful way, either. We’ve seen in this comment thread who it is that he really hates, and it isn’t the people sitting at the tops of the corporate skyscrapers. In fact, the only time people like him care about economic issues at all is when they can use them to attack “globalists,” which is their code word for Jews.

@rc, don’t you see, you’ve already been put on the List of 6 Million Hitlers. The revolution will be led by Dwayne Herbert Mountain Dew Camacho spouting bullshit to flatter the resentments of these people. The Revolutionary Convention’s Delegate for Black Bodies, Ta Nehisi Coates, will absolutely insist on a Safe Spaces amendment for the new constitution.

Freedom, what’s that? Our founders limited the franchise because they understood that freedom is impossible without responsibility. That’s Racist Hate Speech now. How many people today have any concept at all of the old idea of liberty? Of those that do, how many will be leading the revolution (hint: zero).

LOL, realitychecker, name-calling (that isn’t based on reality) pretty much shows you for what you are: a sad bitter old man who got conned.

I was merely giving credit where it was due (as Krugman was the first who used the phrase that the Trump administration is merely a standard GOP administration but more racist).

Again, are you going to argue that Trump isn’t vindictive and narcissistic and has no moral center?
Or do you plan to argue that the Trump administration actually isn’t standard Republican except more racist, more corrupt, meaner, and massively more incompetent?

You won’t respond to that because you’re not honest enough to admit that you’re a sucker. But that doesn’t make it less true.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Trump is Carter (hopefully). Hopefully not Pierce. (As an aside, it’s amazing how well recent events have fit Stephen Skowronek’s framework).

If the Reagan/Neo-liberal era ends in 2020, we may
be able to avert a major civil war (though smaller rebellions may still break out in rural areas). If, somehow, the GOP wins in 2020, we will have another major civil war by 2024.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered…History has stopped. Nothing exists except the endless present in which the party is always right” — George Orwell 1984

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/oliver-stone-1984-here/ri20694

^ Bruce Wilder
+1

Here is more Bannon talking about what his departure means.

https://www.axios.com/bannon-the-trump-presidency-that-we-fought-for-and-won-is-over-2474582991.html

This is a nerve-wracking report on the State Department under Trump. Incompetence may not be as harmless as we thought.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/03/state-department-trump/517965/?utm_source=twb

The last link is a post about the game the neoliberal Democrats are playing and the plans they have for the rest of us down the road. Feel free to be grateful.

https://theoutline.com/post/2020/left-with-rage-what-happens-when-trump-is-gone

“Keep your eye on the big picture. Picture keeps getting bigger.” – Ani DiFranco

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/19/the-bad-losers-and-what-they-fear-losing/

A really fresh perspective from Edroso –

http://alicublog.blogspot.com/

VietnamVet
August 19, 2017

Look for a quickening; Charlottesville was an accelerant added to an already smoldering fire.
Trump is surely not the problem; but a festering boil and symptom, of a worse fate coming soon.
Bannon, of and by himself, is unimportant; the real power lays low behind the curtain; Oz lives…

Lex
August 19, 2017

+1
RC is an asshole!

So with Bannon gone-ish back to Breitbart and Breitbart supposedly engaged in a “War!” against Trump now, who’s left in the White House to defend him? Sarah Huckabee? Kellyann Conway? Stephen Miller? Who? The Kids?

That’ll go over well.

Upthread, bruce wilder correctly pointed out that there is in progress a ‘soft coup’ that is essentially installing a military junta to rule, or at least to serve as the executive for standard crony capitalist rule. Trump cannot resist. He really has no interest in resisting military commanders. Brings him back to his glory days at New York Military Academy it does.

Delegitimizing the presidency as the national executive serves a number of overriding interests of the ruling clique. For one thing, they will never have to contend with a president who has his or her own ideas again. They can simply ignore them. Bonus is the delegitimization of Congress as well. While the courts are being heavily packed with corporatists and rightist reactionaries, I’m sure the Plan includes deligitimization of the courts and ignoring them too.

We’re entering uncharted territory, and we’re not going to get back what’s lost. A number of people mentioned freedom and liberty up above, but what is it? The always unanswered question is: “Freedom/liberty for whom to do what?”

The street brawls are theater, don’t forget that. Unfortunately, it’s theater with real dead bodies at the end of the play. Of course, that serves a purpose, too. So far though, none of it touches the ruling class; every bit of it is a struggle among the lower orders.

Tearing down statues — quite the sport in the former Soviet Empire, and latterly in conquered Iraq — in no way afflicts the fortunate, and the new rulers are not necessarily any better and are often much worse than what went before.

And so it goes.

There will always be many more thoughtless morons than thoughtful intelligent people. As this thread demonstrates.

I see a lot of new people declaring what I am, which is fine, except that what they say contradicts everything I have ever written about here. Doesn’t matter; they just have to say they know what I am, and if their views are contradictory, they are not bothered. I am all things to them, as long as those things are derogatory. A Jew and a Nazi sympathizer, no problem. The funny part is, each of these morons thinks I should take the time to unravel all their rantings.

V. Arnold, thanks for taking time out from ogling the junta-approved child prostitutes where you choose to live to call me an asshole.

If only stupid people could have an opportunity to feel the contempt they inspire in thoughtful people.

@Peter:
“Trump has already driven the ruling class to distraction attacking the free traders, the warmers and the guardians of the administrative state.”

LOLOLOLOL
For a con man to be successful, he needs suckers.

If you can’t see that he’s done nothing to actually slow down free trade and China’s rise and the disintegration of industrial/post-industrial areas and that as power abhors a vacuum, his massive incompetence actually enables the other power centers of the administrative state/deep state more (the military now feels free to ignore the President and the security agencies now feel free to move against a President), then you are blind.

I’ve come to the conclusion that suckers like you are willing to trade away your freedom for not only no bread (which Trump actually wants to take away from people like you) but the mere circuses of white grievance performance art.

whooosh, this is quite a thread. if i’m getting the kind of revolution a few of you are trying to foment, no…i’d hate to see any of you anywhere near any levers of power.

but i will offer two things: one is that i’d been musing about charlottesville, and wondering about the old 60s anti-war question: ‘what if they gave a war, and nobody went?’ i wouldn’t have gone to join the antifa, had it even been possible. were i black, who can say?

the second thing concerns to abject hypocrisy of the amerikan ruling class condemning the nazis and white supremacists. the empire has indeed loved supporting, now arming w/ ‘lethal weapons’, the nazis in ukraine, israeli and its apartheid government, global wars on black and brown people in the name of ‘democracy™ (for the puppet ruling classes), the industrial prison complex, etc., which we’d been discussing at my home website.

this essay by ajamu baracka likely says it far better: ‘The Story of Charlottesville was Written in Blood in the Ukraine’ by BAR editor and columnist Ajamu Baraka

https://blackagendareport.com/story-charlottesville-was-written-blood-ukraine

Oh, the racist fundamentalist base is going to war with the financial moneyed elite with moderate Republicans in the middle via a corrupt WH just waiting to all file to jail?

*Sound of popcorn popping*

You don’t say…

Kudos to Ian for always leaving the comments open. As other people have said I’m also unhappy with Yves decision to close down comments. Digby went down that path and never recovered. Hopefuly Yves will relent…

The events in charlotsville need more interaction and dialogue, not less.

@realitychecker:

If you don’t want to be called a Nazi sympathizer, don’t sympathize with Nazis.

Pretty simple, really. You’d think someone as “thoughtful” as yourself could have figured that out.

The most interesting aspect of these discussions, IMO, is that despite both major parties having horrible, unforgivable sins on their recent record, they still have mindless adherents who act like they still have some claim on moral purity.

That incredible, limitless self-aggrandizing hypocrisy is what I hate most.

A little honest self-examination would go a long way, but it’s out of fashion these days because it just doesn’t FEEL good. And the feelings of every useless, self-centered idiot count for more these days than the best thoughts of the wisest philosopher.

It takes some mental discipline to elevate logic above your feelings, but if you can’t do it, you should at least have the humility to STFU.

Anybody who supports either duopoly party has countless contradictions on their side to account for and justify to themselves. I recommend that you get to it, for it is a huge task, and frankly you are not fit to engage in adult conversation until you have tackled it.

@realitychecker:

One doesn’t have to support either major party to realize that Nazis are bad, and people being killed for speaking out against Nazis is also bad.

Defending that is evidence of a certain kind of thinking, and while it may or may not be sloppy, it is certainly vile.

Debbie Lusignan, the “Sane Progressive” on youtube, has weighed in with “Bannon Driven Out by Media in Service of War Agenda, the Ultimate Hate” @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O0vCQcZybQ Like many youtubers, Debbie can be a little long winded, but I like her passion and integrity.

@ NR. i know that this comment thread is fraught w/ suspicions as to hidden identity personifications or close to that. no, it’s not an either/or, and yes, what i’d said above as to ‘not showing up for the war’ certainly included thoughts of heather heyer’s assassination by a deranged nazi/klansperson, and a score of critical injuries as well, but also by earlier wars’ with the ‘united right’ or whatever they umbrella under. (some they they’re not all deranged on this thread’, but that their fear about becoming the minority color in 2045 is ‘well-grounded’. fuck that racialist (at the very minimum) rubbish!

a southern commenter at my home website aid that antifa = the alt left; ach, so many labels tend to vex me. that said, i do hope, wish, that many of them understand, or learn to understand that the empire’s ruling class has long been, and supported, white supremacy. i’ve followed police state murders since albuquerque, then onto black lives, indian lives matter, black august radicalism, and am clear that this is a white supremacist nation, built on the blacks of first american genocide and slavery.

so for me, the hysteria from michael moore and his brethren on trump having equated robert e. lee w. george washington, i say fine, tear down his statues, jefferson’s…and others. the ‘american revolution’ was of course, not about taxation’ so much as king george wanting to end slavery in the UK, and in the colonies.

as an aside, i’ll not bring what one racialist ‘revolutionary’ on this thread has characterized ‘wendy’s world’.

There are no principles, only feelings for you guys.

So, you love women and you love the Islamists who subjugate them and mutilate their genitalia.

You love gays, and you love the Islamists who throw them off of roofs.

And never a word of criticism or a shred of insight. No self-examination ever. Not ever. And these are just the two easiest contradictions in your addled minds that I could point out.

But it all ‘feels’ right to you.

So, I really don’t give a shit what you feel. I can’t respect anything about you. I only respect people who can think as well as feel.

@Hugh,

I’ve been away on vacation and come back to find that Naked Capitalism has turned its comments all the way off. Really? Later tonight, I will go there and see for myself. I was going to run some experiments in sneaking back on there under another name because why should I honor the “keep off my blog” desires of someone who lacks the honor to say “keep off my blog” to my face right there on their own blog in front of everybody? Now it looks like the concept of experiments is moot. . . . if commenting has indeed been turned off.

If they are still off, I will have to say . . . man that was fast. Digby moved way slower than that.

That kind of swift and easy recourse to censorship in the face of insufficient worshipfulness towards the pet biases and fashions of the left wing sitekeepers will help to explain why The Left will never expand beyond its own smelly little ghetto.

Ah well . . . at least the Ian Welsh blog still allows itself and its commenters free to run amok outside the ghetto walls.

Trump is Carter (hopefully).

In terms of terms served, possibly. However, Corey Robin has done a good job over the past few months of showing that Carter actually exercised power, which is what alienated him from his party. Trump is weaker by far, save in the (still potentially disastrous, long-term) area of court appointments.

How many people today have any concept at all of the old idea of liberty?

As David Hackett Fischer showed in Albion’s Seed, there were (at least) four not really compatible “old ideas of liberty”. It doesn’t take a rocket scienctist to intuit that you’re probably a fan of the one championed by the old planters: liberty for me and none for thee.

V. Arnold, thanks for taking time out from ogling the junta-approved child prostitutes where you choose to live to call me an asshole.

Everything else aside, this tired/tiresome shtick is why I think RC ought to be banned.

So, you love women and you love the Islamists who subjugate them and mutilate their genitalia.
You love gays, and you love the Islamists who throw them off of roofs.

lol

@ DC

Earlier, all comment threads at NC were closed. She had a notice up to that effect.

@ Cag

Since you sympathize with this barbaric behavior, you must be a misogynist and a homophobe.

That’s how it works in your world, isn’t it?

@ NR: i did respond to you a few hours ago, but my comment is still in moderation. it was too long, i reckon.

Have to side with Realitychecker, Metamars, and Peter on this one. Antifa are not heroic minded “counter-protestors.” Their record of violence and incitement is well known. In some of the pictures I saw, there were communist symbols among them, the hammer-and-sickle, the red fist, and so forth. For myself, really not interested in going the Bolshevik route.

Obviously, Antifa is being funded and directed with and for a purpose of some kind.

Meanwhile, every time there’s an Islamic terror attack, we’re told not to become “Islamaphobic,” it’s only those few disgruntled radicals over there, not Islam itself. On the other hand, one guy is driven to violence by Antifa thugs, and suddenly an entire nationalist movement is pilloried.

Now the last nationalist in the White House is done for.

Hmm….

@realitychecker:

So you just have an unconditional love for the First Amendment, and yet you also believe that only white journalists are capable of exercising its freedoms properly (or at least, the “freedom of the press” part).

Somehow that makes me doubt that the pure and unconditional love for the First Amendment that you espouse is sincere.

@realitychecker:

As I said, your opinion of me could not possibly matter less.

But your statements in these comments have given a great deal of insight into the kind of person you are. And it’s ugly, to say the least.

@ marym

And after the righties left, some antiifas threw urine bombs onto the police that were there to keep it peaceful. Who is to blame for that?

One idiot in a car is being used repeatedly to define the entire Charlottesville crowd.

One idiot.

Why does not the same rule apply when one idiot, or a few, on the lefty-favored side behave badly?

The inability to apply the rules and judgments even-handedly is why nobody gives the left any credibility anymore, and its a damn shame, because regular folks suffer for it, and they are the ones I care about. All regular, decent folks.

Tribalism is what requires these differential judgments. Tribalism sucks.

Reciprocity is the key to civilized human interaction. Nobody should be trusted who applies different rules to their in-group than they apply to an outsider to their in-group.

But that is what we have devolved to. And it’s going to kill us.

@realitychecker:

I’ve said repeatedly that I don’t care one bit what a racist Nazi sympathizer like you thinks of me. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

@Marym

I’m sure most of these anti-free speech/Trump demonstrators are relatively peaceful for Bostonians. But if they rub shoulders with the Soros militias they will get some stink on themselves no matter what the local politicians spin about their voter’s virtues.

As RC wrote you can’t have it one way, these people behaved like a mob to shut down a peaceful non-extremist demonstration even if they didn’t all knock down old women carrying Amerikan flags.

If people continue to follow antifa’s lead and direction in these demonstrations they are joining a political ploy that has little to do with racism or Confederate statues.

rc:
White supremacy can only be achieved through violence. People who embrace that cause, who march under that banner accept those terms, even if they didn’t personally run over anyone last week.

Peter
((30-40,000)-32) people committed to peaceful protest, who prepare for it, in some cases train for it, try to escalate problems when they occur, aren’t tarred with anything the antifa may or may not have done, except by the hostile efforts of people who want them so tarred.

@Marym

These thirty thousand protesters overwhelmed and frightened off a much smaller peaceful and non-extremist demonstration. That is mob action that at least threatened violence.

The mounted Dallas police are trying to break up another mob action at a Confederate cemetery there. The battle cry is ‘tear them down’ referring to the statuary there, perhaps they will desecrate some graves also.

These mobs are beginning to remind me of frenzied book-burners assured that their antifa identity will excuse any excess zeal or injury.

@ V. Arnold

You’re the victim, even though you called me an asshole before I said anything to you. Do you think you should get to attack me, unprovoked, without consequence? Never gonna happen.

GFY, you obnoxious POS.

And then, there are always the child prostitutes that you so carefully located yourself within easy reach of . . .one might wonder why, one might wonder how you can be so comfortable surrounded by that human misery, and one might make a good guess why.

Choosing to live in the sex tourism capital of the world, ruled by a military junta, and you have the nerve to constantly reach back here with pompous, sweeping criticisms.

But you don’t have the balls to try and protest any of the human misery right there where you live. I think we can make some likely assumptions about you.

What a cowardly, hypocritical waste of skin you are. And anytime you choose to poke at me, I will always be happy to remind you of what a lowlife you are.

Feel free to play the victim every time that happens. Maybe you’ll learn someday.

You keep saying good-bye, but then you keep being present lol.

I just enjoy jerking your chain, because it is so easy, and you so deserve it, for being so repetitively obnoxious about your contempt for America, and for pretending to be able to do psychological diagnosis from the other side of the world.

You’ve repeatedly opened attacks on me here and at Wendy’s blog (which is cowardly and very bad form), then you play the victim when I come back at you, and then you call me “passive-aggressive.” Projection, much? You define passive-aggressive.

Your junta approves of and benefits from the child sex industry where you are comfortable. Check your own morality, ass hole, before you point fingers at America. America has many faults, and we agree about them, but your comfort level with the lowest forms of child exploitation where you live undermine your standing to be so contemptuously critical of what we have here.

Now you can demonstrate your own “OCD” if you wish.

Trust me, if you never mention me, I will never mention you, because as a point of honor I never strike the first blow, but I do counterattack. That’s how I deal with sneaks and bullies. And especially sneaky bullies like you.

>>>>>Yes, the guy who drove his car into a crowd of people and killed a woman was just a poor innocent victim. Anita *made* him do it, really; it’s not like he had any choice in the matter whatsoever.

He didn’t drive his car into a crowd, he drove it into the rear end of another car. The woman that got killed was, reportedly, in front of that other car.

Then he was attacked by armed Antifa “counter-protestors,” and presumably thought it better to back out of there before they pulled him from his car and killed him:

https://twitter.com/LucidHurricaneX/status/896857214136311808/video/1

Clearly, if the goal had been to commit mass murder, he could have swerved to either side and truly hit the crowd. (If he had been a jihadist virgin-seeker, that’s what would have happened.)

Questions:

1- Why did the driver accelerate his vehicle down the street in the first place, so as to hit the car in front of him? Could he have been in a panic, and fleeing from a mob further up the road?

2- Why was the car in front of him blocked by so many Antifa “counter-protestors” in the first place?

3- Why did the Antifa “counter-protestors” attack his car after the collision? My reaction would have been to see if everyone was okay, and to call paramedics.

But never mind the film clip. Never mind the questions. Never mind an investigation.

Lefties are always in the right, nationalists are always in the wrong.

Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty!

LOL!

Used to be a lefty myself … sort of.

More and more of us are getting red-pilled. Keep it up, you clowns.

In 1847, in the hill country of Texas, a remarkable event took place. German settlers made a peace treaty with the Comanches. A small monument to peace is located at the spot. Meusebach-Comanche Treaty

Peter:

The 30-40,000 were committed to peaceful protest. The tactics of the handful of antifa are generally perceived by people with that mindset as being dangerous to them as well.

The city gave the original protesters a permit and a lovely downtown location. They had police escorts to and from their rally point. The counter-protesters were kept behind a fence, at a distance. Cops wouldn’t let counter-protesters carry signs on cardboard(!) sticks lest the original protesters think they were real sticks.

That the original protesters weren’t able to muster more than a handful to their cause, under such well-protected conditions, isn’t the fault of the 30-40,000.

I haven’t looked at reports from Dallas yet, but I looked at plenty from Boston. Just people walking, talking, playing music, and gathering to exercise their own right to speak and assemble. Some shouting or shoving, de-escalated by the counter-protesters themselves. Two reports of counter-protesters helping escort original protesters to their safe space.

No angry mobs. Not even the police made that claim.

The little nazis came to Charlotte in greater numbers, and armed. They, not the counter-protesters, created a situation for which there can be legitimate discussion as to whether violent resistance is appropriate. But in Boston they did it with numbers.

@ marym

“They had police escorts to and from their rally point. The counter-protesters were kept behind a fence, at a distance.”

Oh, Mary, the papers are reporting that the crowd of antis “swarmed” the police as they tried to evacuate the few dozen righties, and pelted them with rocks and urine.

Pelted the POLICE!!!!

Please revise. You can’t get a way with blithely misrepresenting or excusing that.

Please revise.

LOLOLOLOL

Washington Post account doesn’t mention it AT ALL.

Know your sources, everybody out there has an interest in lying to you and trying to manipulate your mind.

Truth is being eclipsed just like the sun. Except that the sun is only a one-day event, while the media’s truth eclipse is perpetual. (sigh)

@Ghostwheel:

First, I have to say it’s amusing how your account of the events is changing. First, you were saying that James Fields was “driven to violence by Antifa thugs.” Now, you’re saying that he wasn’t even being violent, he was just trying to escape Antifa and the whole thing was just a tragic accident, really. Do try to at least keep your bullshit consistent, eh?

And second, yes, I’m sure that the man who marched in support of an ideology responsible for mass murder and attempted genocide was just a humble, peace-loving individual. The whole thing must be Antifa’s fault, since James Fields isn’t the slightest bit violent and would never hurt anyone given the choice.

Oh, wait. That’s not true at all:

http://www.businessinsider.com/james-alex-fields-mother-abuse-charlottesville-driver-2017-8

But your concern about “witchhunts” is noted. Fields will get a trial and due process of law, and the truth will come out, no matter how much Nazis like you try to cover it up.

That powerless losers are joining questionable causes out of confused desperation is troubling, though it’s probably just been the way of things throughout recorded human history. I’d think the matter of degree to which this happens on a cultural level is a direct reflection of the quality of the prevailing powers that be.

And without Bannon, Trump is just more of the same old shit, plus a bunch of narcissistic stupid.

(Tiki)Torchlight parade. “Blood and Soi-ull! Blood and Soi-ull!” “You/(Jews) will not replace us!” Nazi and neo-Nazi and white supremacist flags, emblems, chants and symbols galore, surrounding and violently attacking student anti-fascists gathered around the statue of Thomas Jefferson on the campus of the University of Virginia.

None of this happened according to the Nazis and Nazi-defenders littering the white rightist fringe and many of the online comment sections, or if it did happen, it didn’t matter. It was just blowing off steam. Nothing to get alarmed over. Boys will be boys, eh/

Yes, they will. Juveniles waving around swastikas because why not? Free speech!!

If that’s all it was, who would care? No one, not really. But it wasn’t just a bunch of boisterous delinquents having a good time shouting slogans and waving flags. Nope.

A number of people were injured at the statue fracas, and one had a stroke after being struck with a tiki-torch.

The Nazis and would-be Nazis were the aggressors as they would be many times the following day, after their permit was withdrawn and a state of emergency was declared.

Agressing against Commies is what Nazis do. Even to the point of killing the Commies. All the opposition to white-rightist/Nazis are by definition “Commies.” Including Antifa, which is a wide-spread anti-fascist movement, not a group, a movement which has an objective of preventing the fringe of fascists and Nazis from growing and spreading.

This is all stuff that’s known or easy to figure out, but it’s stuff that Nazi-defenders and equivocators can’t deal with. They whine and pretend and obfuscate and deny. They lie. They hide.

It’s not complicated, it’s straightforward. There are no good Nazis, nothing to discuss with them rationally or otherwise.

RC, “suddenly people feel justified in reacting violently to any speech they don’t like.”
Seems people have been given the green light.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-19/did-marco-rubio-just-say-its-ok-beat-people-their-thoughts

Agreed. Every political hack will be shouting that to kingdom come to keep their power over everyone else. Sickening.

@RC

I doubt there are enough good minds or that people will listen to them to have any effect on this crazy place were heading into. The mob is restless and empowered as we see them show their true colors parroting lies and damning anyone who resists with the White supremacist brand. Even the less hostile seem to deeply desire to follow this slippery virtue signaling slope to its liberal authoritarian roots.

Look at what brought these snowflakes out by the tens of thousands the KKK and the neo-Nazis. The largest neo-Nazi group has 400 members in the whole US. The Klan is larger with about 5000 members but all these white extremist groups have been infiltrated by the FBI and are closely monitored minimal threats. The other concerned conservatives at these demonstrations aren’t a threat to anyone unless you’re a snowflake voter who can’t handle defeat.

The other side of this conflict is being led more and more by the so called antifa or Black Bloc as they were known in their early militia actions. Back then they only broke windows now they break heads. We don’t know who these people are or what they look like without their masks and only two have identified themselves that I know of. These were two young professional women who don’t fir the male militia appearance of the original core group. They are trying to get something violent and disruptive started. The attacks on the cops is begging for an overreaction which would drive more people into the streets.

There aren’t enough white extremists to even begin a real Civil War and most conservatives don’t seem interested in street fighting with piss bombers. The best they and their NWO backers can hope for is growing unrest and disruption of law and order which could have serious domestic and foreign effects.

So how does one reconcile Trump’s support of neo-N*zis with his loony tunes strong support of Israel? How do his neo-N*zi supporters reconcile this? How does Bannon reconcile his support of neo-N*zis with the Mercer family who are the money behind Breitbart? Inquiring minds would like to know.

@ Hugh

When logic seems to fail, check your premises!!!!

Hint: Start with the first one, which is STUPID!

Oops. Link for Charlottesville mayor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S0NqEJeE08

@RC

The MOTU’s are responding to the threat of nationalism to their urban globalism NWO plan. They c0ntrol most all the levers of power but are unable to silence those who refuse to live under their Borg like rule. Brexit, European nationalism and especially the rise of the Deplorables with Trump has seen them turn every level of their structure into an attack force. Witch-hunts aimed at Trump are also aimed at people like yourself who are being flamed for enabling the heresy of opposing Big Brother and his minion the little Red Queen.

Interaction with the local a-holes you mention leads me to believe they don’t care about the repercussions of their actions. They look for instant gratification against their enemies and anyone who doesn’t believe the ends justify the means.

@ Peter

Exactly right on this one, Peter.

Fortunately, I learned a long time ago that the planet is mostly populated with people much less intelligent and infinitely less honest than I am, and I just accept that reality the same way I accept that I may step in dog feces whenever I leave my house.

What saddens me, in all seriousness, is the lunacy of being attacked by people whose interests I am trying to advance, i.e. regular people trying to lead decent lives, because they are more comfortable, for the moment, with their lunacy. And will remain that way, until it’s too late, probably.

I assume you’ve heard the one about the guy who jumped off the Empire State Building, and as he passed the middle floors was heard to say, “So far, so good.”

That’s what this state of affairs seems like to me. It’s sad, but ultimately people deserve to suffer the consequences of their bad choices. Evolution doesn’t provide any safe spaces.

dayum, ya gotta love this one: ‘Petition to Label Antifa Terror Group Has 146,000 Signatures So Far’ (it now has 169,750 signatures at the white house petitions page.)

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/08/21/petition-label-antifa-terror-group-has-146000-signatures

but yes, while the media is focused on ‘other issues’, the first round of closed-door ‘renegotiations’ of nafta just ended in deep dark badger holes. as with ‘out of nato, out of nafta’ campaign trump, well…not so much. and he’ll address the nation on afghanistan tonight. stay tuned for a new silk road campaign: so many billions/trillions of valuable minerals there to harvest…er…borrow…er…claim.

Antifa is not a group, it’s a movement; one does not belong to Antifa, one is anti-fascist and practices anti-fascism.

Lol! That’s some fine hair-splitting. You know the media narrative has broken down when lefty foot soldiers are forced to invent their own spin.

Speaking of OWS, I used to loathe the Blac Bloc delinquents, who also hid behind masks and tainted OWS, in general, by smashing private property. The “antifa” jackasses remind me of them, even if they also did some good deeds like protected peaceful protestors from Nazis.

Of course, you wouldn’t NEED the protection of thugs, if the police had done their damn jobs.

Freedom for some™—it was nice while it lasted.

when were amerikan blacks, native americans, and the underclass ever ‘free’? certainly not during the past five or more presidential administrations, you can (and will) decide whether or not…under the current president’s surrealistic rule, as in: a re-run of his teevee show.

and yeah, when the underclass begins to rebel, as always, it will be deemed terrorism, as many sorts of dissidents under obomba’s homeland security apparatus. and remember: constitutional free zones, although judges actually determine what those rights are, don’t they?

but the sun is dimming here, and the cloud just moved away. extraordinary quality of light. the shimmers should start soon; i’ll try to get out and shiver in the shimmers. (smile)

Alex Jones of Infowars weighs in with “BREAKING: STATE DEPARTMENT/CIA ORCHESTRATED CHARLOTTESVILLE TRAGEDY” @ https://www.infowars.com/breaking-state-departmentcia-orchestrated-charlottesville-tragedy/

@NR

I don’t know if we can resist such powerful accusation, NR. Where did you learn these devastating tactics, snowflake U?

@ Che

“We’re well beyond the petitioning phase, eh?”

Yes, and quite possibly pushing things into the Second Amendment phase. You know there are lots of people just itching for an excuse to shoot down a mob that is outnumbering and menacing them, and it will be totally legal when they do so in many states, maybe every state.

I really always gave you credit for being smarter than that, Che.

I hope we won’t have to watch you whine here when what you are cheering for brings the inevitable result.

Ed Shultz (RT) interviews eye witness talk show host about whether the locals supported Trump’s statement about violence coming from both sides. The answer was yes. This guy almost got got into a fight with a BLM dude, but the intervention of a BLM dude from the Bronx, who knew him from the DNC convention last year, prevented that.

Gee whiz, will #nevertrump’er Mitt Romney now apologize for his blatant lie about one side being 100% responsible for the violence?

See from 7:56 @ https://www.rt.com/shows/news-with-ed-schultz/399619-news-with-ed-august14/
https://www.rt.com/shows/news-with-ed-schultz/399619-news-with-ed-august14/

Huh. Donald Trump said one thing during the election and is doing the exact opposite now, because apparently Afghanistan, along with immigration, ISIS, taxation, and health care is more complicated than he thought.

It’s almost like he was talking out of his ass during the whole election like a cut-rate carny.

“The largest neo-Nazi group has 400 members in the whole US.”

And half of them comment on this blog, apparently.

Ouch! I think when logic doesn’t work, and facts don’t work, the only thing left that does is really well done ridicule. Thank you.

Peter and Blizzard of Oz are long time Trump trolls. And now realitychecker has outed himself by channeling his full blown Trump as well. They render themselves absurd because they defend the absurd, and show their malevolence in defending malevolence. Trump has already shown himself to be a pathological narcissist, a liar, a bully, intensely ignorant and intellectually lazy. Yet this is their guy. That he is lying to them as much as he is lying to any and everyone else has yet to, and may never, penetrate the wall of their prejudice. I think Trump in some primitive grifter way understands this. There will always be marks who no matter how many times or profoundly they are had will not only never admit they were had but will defend to the end the grifter who screwed them.

@Hugh:

Realitychecker is a hard-core racist as well. Check out his comment way upthread about how non-white journalists are incapable of doing their jobs.

His ilk are all Trump has left supporting him.

Trump just got pragmatic.

No, Trump is a LIAR, a COWARD and an INCOMPETENT SPINELESS NINCOMPOOP.

You know where I am, so how about you come call me a Snowflake to my face. I’m waiting, Tough Guy. Bring It On.

@ Hugh

The only thing you got right in that last comment is that ridicule works, and that is why I use it freely when confronted with obvious determined idiots. Also, it’s fun, and there is so little fun on comment threads these days lol.

I have had great respect for you over the years, because you always had a balanced tone to your analysis. I appreciated that you could do nuance. I guess you decided the choices perpetually offered of shit sandwiches has finally persuaded you somehow that some shit sandwiches are so preferable to others that you need to join the Nazi ravers.

Not me, brother, I still hate and oppose all the exploiters equally. Trump for me was always, and still is, useful to me only insofar as he serves to break down the existing duopoly and rein in the delusional extremes of political correctness that have brought us micro-everythings and the disgusting spectacles of masked thugs shutting down non-violent speakers–like Bill Maher!!!!!

Enjoy the shit sandwich you now prefer, if you wish, but you will still be eating shit. Not me, I have always been and will always be for advancing the interests of decent regular folks against the authoritarian elements.

But right now, you have planted yourself on the wrong side. Sad.

There is nothing so pathetic in all of the varying Internet displays than a guy who challenges another guy in cyberspace to have a physical confrontation. Absolutely nothing that can rival that level of out-of-touchness, Whenever I see it, I think, “Victory!”

I agree. The only thing more absurd & pathetic is calling someone a Snowflake via The Net and claiming Hollow Victories, so, you have me beat. Nobody wins here. We all die. Eventually.

@ STMB

A poor memory to boot.

“You know where I am, so how about you come call me a Snowflake to my face. I’m waiting, Tough Guy. Bring It On.”

Your bicycle must have flat tires. 🙂

RC, even though I don’t own a bike, my tires are fully inflated thank you very much. I’m not going to hurt you, RC, I promise. I don’t pick on disabled people and, not to mention but I will, it would take you forever to reach your proposed rendezvous with me in your motorized scooter, but hey, you’d sure be Riding In Style being the Caped & Masked Avenger that you are.

Here He (RC) Comes To Save The Day!!!

RC, you’re not fooling anyone, least of all me. Trump isn ‘t shaking things up, he’s doubling down on the worst of empire. Thanks to him, our environment will now be more polluted, the wealthy will pay even less taxes and in fact if the trend continues we’ll have to pay taxes directly to the wealthy and we are expanding war & war rhetoric by virtue of Trump’s speech last night about Afghanistan. That’s Business As Usual on steroids, not shaking things up.

Do you prefer a greater presence in Afghanistan, RC? Answer the question directly instead of hedging and deflecting as is your wont. Don’t be evasive. I’ll answer it for myself. I want America out of Afghanistan and out of The Middle East entirely. I want The American Military’s budget reduced by at least 80% and that would mean a closure of most Military Bases around the world as well as all the Forts & Bases around America. How about you, RC? Do you think that’s too complex & impractical to do? Or is it a Goal worth supporting?

Are we going to pretend we don’t know who the Key Players are in the Heroin Drug Trade where Afghanistan is the Exclusive Supplier? How about The Brave American Military, instead of protecting The Heroin Trade, tracks down ALL those, and I mean ALL, who are responsible for its flourishing. I’ll tell you why. Because if they did that, they’d be tracking down many of their own and many VIP Americans, that’s why they don’t. If I was POTUS, I promise I would track them all down and skin them alive and then crucify them on The Capital Grounds and The White House Lawn for all to see and to serve as an example to The Duplicitous that the same fate awaits them if they continue with their evil, sadistic, nefarious ways. I have some General Pershing in me, just appropriately directed at the String Pullers rather than The Little People.

Afghan Poppy Farmers Say New Seeds Will Boost Opium Output (Can You Say Monsanto?)

This is right out of The Monsanto Playbook.

No one seems to know where the seeds originate from. The farmers of Kandahar and Helmand provinces, where most of Afghanistan’s poppies are grown, say they were hand-delivered for planting early this year by the same men who collect the opium after each harvest, and who also provide them with tools, fertilizer, farming advice — and the much needed cash advance.

I just posted:

(BAD TRUMP) Progressives @ counterpropa(ganda).com Talking More About Democratic Culpability than the clueless Trump Administration

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald_GoodAndBad/comments/6vyp1n/bad_trump_progressives_counterpropagandacom/