If you’re vaccinated, you can still get Covid, but… (courtesy of my favorite Dalek.)
Now, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention has stopped investigating breakthrough infections among fully vaccinated people unless they become so sick that they are hospitalized or die.
Now, this may seem reasonable, but people with breakthrough Covid can give it to other people, and they can get Long Covid from it.
And, yeah, you can still die.
Earlier this year, the agency was monitoring all cases. Through the end of April, when some 101 million Americans had been vaccinated, the CDC had received 10,262 reports of breakthrough infections from 46 states and territories, a number that was very likely “a substantial undercount,” according to a CDC report issued on Tuesday….(my emphasis)
Some 995 people were known to have been hospitalized, and 160 had died, though not always because of Covid-19, the new study said. The median age of those who died was 82.
So, we’re not going to count cases unless they wind up in the hospital, but the people with Covid are still infectious and can still die (looks like about a 1.5 percent chance, based on the numbers above).
This, along with the decision to stop recommending masks for people who are fully vaccinated (which, yeah, people who don’t believe in vaccination will lie about) smacks of “the pandemic is all but over, nothing to see here.”
“If we don’t measure it, it doesn’t exist!”
Neither the CDC, nor the WHO have covered themselves in glory during this pandemic. In fact, they have burned credibility like it’s ten cent oil, and they want to set the world on fire. They said masks didn’t help, then they changed their minds. They resisted evidence that the virus was airborne vigorously, and as a result, didn’t emphasize proper ventilation. They were wrong about schools, where, yes, children and teachers do get infected and pass it on.
What should have be a disease we stomped into the ground is now likely to become chronic (also because of refusal to share vaccine manufacturing information), which will, it must be admitted, earn Pharma tens of billions of dollars every year, so I guess that’s a win. And who really needed old people, or people who are immune-compromised? Think of all the saved money on pensions and healthcare for people who are mostly worth more dead than alive to governments and corporations. (Especially since the kids of old people can spend their money. It doesn’t require mom or dad or grandpa or grandma to be alive.)
Back in the Bush era, a joke I liked was: “Stupid or evil?”
“Why not both?”
It sure is fun to be ruled by incompetent psychopaths.
Over in Britain, the government is now trying to deny that they started off with a herd immunity strategy: “Let almost everyone get it and who cares if grandma dies?” But anyone with a memory span of more than year remembers that they did.
Psychopaths. The rich get richer if Covid isn’t stopped. The richest people in the world have seen massive increases in their wealth and income because of Covid. Life is fucking marvelous and Covid has been a blessing.
Understand this in your bones. The people making decisions not only don’t care if you die, if you dying will make them richer or more powerful, they’ll go with the decision path that leads to you or your mum or your best friend dying or winding up homeless. You are nothing to them, you’re meat. A prey animal.
Welcome to late-stage capitalism.
(The more people subscribe or donate the more I write and the happier I am. So please consider doing so if you like my writing.)
anon
A dear work colleague died of Covid-19 last month. It was a reminder that this virus is still very much a threat, even in the USA, where half of adults have been vaccinated, and it will continue to kill for possibly generations to come. The moment we let our guard down it will return with a vengeance. I don’t believe we are out of the woods yet and I fully expect there to be a resurgence once schools open up in the fall, people start letting their guard down and going maskless indoors, and vaccine immunity begins to wane. Officials are acting like it is safe for everyone to return to work and school, and we’ll abide by an honor code for taking off our masks. It’s laughable. This is America where there is no honor among thieves. My guess is that a significant number of the ones going maskless were always anti-masks and will not get the vaccine. I’ll still be wearing masks until we learn more about this virus, its origins, and the effectiveness of these vaccines. No one should put their lives in the hands of the CDC and WHO. Use common sense and consider this virus to be just as much of a threat now as it was a year ago.
Dan Lynch
Ian said The people making decisions not only don’t care if you die, if you dying will make them richer or more powerful, they’ll go with the decision path that leads to you or mum or your best friend dying or winding up homeless. You aren’t nothing to them, you’re meat.
Thank you for saying that. The brainwashing in the U.S. is so deep that merely stating an obvious fact is revolutionary.
I would only add that (except for people with legitimate health problems that prevent them from being vaccinated or developing antibodies), from this point forward all covid deaths in the US will be a type of suicide, because the deaths are largely preventable with the free vaccines yet millions of Americans are choosing not to get the vaccine. Call it “suicide-by-conspiracy-theory.”
In my county (Idaho County, Id) the vaccination rate has been stuck at 22% for two weeks. Every adult in the county who wanted to get vaccinated, has already been vaccinated. The vaccination rate may increase to 25% after Moderna is approved for kids but the other 75% of the county believe covid is just the flu and vaccines are the work of Satan. Because of our rural isolation we have dodged a major outbreak so far but it’s just a question of time until the super-infectious B1617 arrives here and has its way with a mostly unvaccinated population.
gnokgnoh
I went to the Twitter site. 101,000,000 vaccinated, 10,262 reported cases = .0001 or .01% infection rate among those that are vaccinated. The current cumulative infection rate in the general US population = 10%: 33,184,182 infected as of May 23, out of a population of 328 million.
The problem with data like this, without context, is that it leads to the argument that vaccines aren’t fostering widespread resistance. They are. If Covid becomes chronic, it will because of the 19% of the population that refuses to get vaccinated enabling the virus to incubate and mutate.
GM
You know, I used to think that the Bolsheviks didn’t have to actually kill off so many of the “class enemies” and that it was a mistake that they did so, it only caused unnecessary problems later on.
But then COVID came and now I understand why they did it, and I also understand that the world is in dire need of the same being done to the current ruling class (the problem is that there is no significant force in society to make it happen). And I also now realize that my previous thinking was based in large part of the fact that how life was in the 19th and early 20th century is never really told to the current generations in its actual brutality and cruelty — if you have been treated as a physically disposable object, to be used and the killed off if necessary, the way the 19th century working class was, you see things very differently. When class war involves physical extermination on one side of it, then the other side has to take it equally seriously.
That physical extermination aspect had been pushed to the background for a long time. It was still there — the people who can’t pay their medical bills live significantly shorter lives than the upper strata of society — but not in such a direct and brutally unmistakable way.
But now it’s back.
Unfortunately, I don’t see much understanding of that fact in the population, exactly the opposite — many regular people were very successfully convinced by the propaganda campaign that it is in their best interest to get infected with the virus.
metamars
“Use common sense and consider this virus to be just as much of a threat now as it was a year ago.”
This makes about as much sense as considering AIDS as much a threat now as it was when it first became well known, and when people still thought you could catch it by speaking into the same public telephone as an infected person.
Even without vaccines, including the experimental gene therapy known as mRNA vaccine, there’s a wealth of information about therapeutics at c19study dot com.
Regarding vaccines, there was an interesting segment on democracynow.org in April covering Cuba’s health response. They will be first Latin American country to produce a vaccine.
fivehundredpoundpeep
Ian have you read up on the Covid vaxx and what it’s doing to people. Tons of death, open censorship on Facebook–I saw two groups taken down in front of my face where people were talking about their personal side effects. Too many dying right after they take it, going way beyond statistical deaths. Cardiomyositis in the young, blood clots, anaphylaxis, shingles, tinnitus, deafness, blindness–there’s a man on twitter talking about his wife who has been blinded, and far worse. I know more people who had illness from the vaxx then Covid. I believe Covid is real don’t get me wrong but there’s something insidious about this whole mess. These Covid vaxx offer no immunity, expect repeating boosters where people have to deal with all the risk yet again. The whole population being led over the cliff to take on an experimental vaxx. It’s crazy.
And what’s with the left now? All fascist, demanding vaccine passports, total and complete trust in corporations….I’m definitely a disaffected leftist now.
http://fivehundredpoundpeeps.blogspot.com/2021/05/what-happened-to-left-ableist-statists.html
NL
Dan Lynch
“I would only add …. from this point forward all covid deaths in the US will be a type of suicide, because the deaths are largely preventable … Call it “suicide-by-conspiracy-theory.””
Naturally, let’s blame the population… we gave you a miracle vaccine, but you don’t want to take it, don’t blame us… blame your own stupidity.
Same with the political system, we gave you a miracle political system called democracy, don’t blame us if you don’t vote for the right politicians…
Or workers, our workers are stupid, and we need to bring in foreign workforce…
If we only had better electorate, workers, customers, people, we could … fill in your favorite thing…
Sure, it is a palliative that helps the – you name it – leadership, political operatives, CEOs, etc – sleep better at night, but it’s not solving a thing. The involution is here and will touch on everyone…
someofparts
Here’s the big news.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/05/i-dont-know-of-a-bigger-story-in-the-world-right-now-than-ivermectin-ny-times-best-selling-author.html
Ivermectin works, but the doctors who try to report it get blocked in the press and on Twitter and Facebook. Offering vaccines that haven’t been adequately tested is only legal if there is no alternative. We are not allowed to have the simple medicine that stops the virus because it would keep them from making money on the vaccines we have to take now. We are not being killed by Trump, we are being killed by pure greed.
Hugh
It has been disappointing. The public health approach to an airborne respiratory pandemic are known. And while some of the early falling down of the CDC can be blamed on the Trump effect. This is not the case with the WHO. As conditions change: different season, more vaccinated, especially more vaccinated among the most vulnerable parts of the population, changes in the public health approaches are to be expected, but these changes need to be thoughtfully explained. These explanations either haven’t happened or ludicrously suck.
This pandemic has hit the oldest part of the population the hardest. This segment has also been the most heavily vaccinated. That’s a good thing. At the same time, the immune systems of the elderly are less robust. So break through infections are not that big of a surprise. And you can rationalize that as long as those infections aren’t serious, and occurring in a well vaccinated population segment, and still relatively rare, they don’t need heavy monitoring. But the thing is we should not have to come up with these rationalizations/explanations. The CDC and WHO should be providing them and how their decisions fit into their larger covid strategy. Again not seeing this.
I would also like to see some discussion from them on why the old with their less robust immune systems have been hit so hard by covid while children with their incomplete immune systems have done so much better. I would like this, but I have given up expecting it.
GM
Immunosenescence is the big risk factor, both in terms of the deficient immune response and the chronic inflammation in old people (chronic inflammation is also the reason for the high risk in younger people with certain conditions).
There are diseases that are much worse for children, but the way this particular virus works is such that an aged and chronically inflamed immune system is hit much harder.
The really big problem that nobody in a position of authority wants to touch on (and that includes most of the scientists working the virus) is that:
1. Having COVID wrecks your immune system and moves it in a direction towards further premature aging and a dysregulated inflammatory state
2. Having COVID does not confer lasting immunity
3. Vaccines will likely have to be annual because the antibodies wane over time and these viruses appear to be quite good at antigenic drift.
When you put those things together, you have the terrifying prospect of people entering this downward health spiral (and there is all the additional organ-level damage to lungs, hearts, kidneys, etc. that will also be accumulating) in which they will be getting on average worse and worse with repeated reinfections, of which there will be multiples for everyone with an endemic virus, even with vaccines.
On top of it the virus has the evolutionary potential to evolve into something much deadlier over time — it is the mildest by a long distance of all the related viruses and it could easily regain some of that virulence with a few key mutations.
The available evidence points to these extremely negative developments as very distinct possibilities, and it will be complete ruin if that is what happens.
Yet none of this is communicated to the public as possible risk, instead the pandemic is declared over…
metamars
@someofparts
I don’t think Ian has ever so much as written the word “ivermectin” in one of his posts, much less made an even superficially researched comment on it. He has also written about “epidemiology 101”, which, we are to believe, is something little Vietnam did, but the US did not. Apparently, epidemiology 101 is just the collection of actions that we hear discussed in the US media, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. (Based on my consumption of about 20 Indian news shows, during their 2nd big wave, it’s the same with mainstream ‘news’ in India, and their ‘authorities’.) Wash your hands, social distance, “test” (even with the PCR quackery), trace. (OK, Ian mentioned ventilation, which is actually huge, though I don’t know that anybody else considered that “Epidemiology 101”, before covid came along.)
One thing that should have been considered “Epidemiology 101” is hydrotherapy (“fomentations”, at the time), which was used to drop death rates from Spanish flu by a factor of about 6, based on a reference I quoted in a comment, in the April 10 open thread. In “A CENTURY AFTER THE SPANISH FLU” @ ndnr.com, there is a quote claiming even more efficaciousness from homeopathic approaches, viz., a 30 fold increase. (I don’t know which figure is more accurate.)
You’d have to ask Ian why hydrotherapy isn’t part of his interpretation of “Epidemiology 101”.
===========================================
Regarding ivermectin, I suggest everybody listen to part II of Dr. Campbell’s interview of Dr. Pierre Kory. Miraculously, it is still available on youtube, as “Dr Pierre Kory, Part 2, Ivermectin”. There are 2 points particularly worthy of mention.
Firstly, ivermectin works against the Indian variant, though you have to up the dosage. (He mentions doubling the dosage, for some of his own, more serious cases in the US, during early treatment; and tripling the dosage for late stage disease, that require hospitalization.) Listen about 12:00 into the video. I had speculated that the virus had evolved a more drug-resistant form, which was part of India’s problem. Looks like I was half right; the Indian variant is more drug-resistant, but not so much that ivermectin is not useful. (Unfortunately, he mentions real contraindications; “when you get the cholera vaccine or the BCG vaccine” – I guess he means in the same time frame, but I’m not sure; also warfarin and transplant drugs; he also says liver disease is NOT a contraindication, though it’s being cited by nay-sayers).
The second point is political:
“the flcc is a team and he asked us to
come and testify
during his um he did a series of
hearings about early treatment
and um so i decided
whereas back in may i did it by zoom um
i decided to show up in person you know
he had asked he preferred that i showed
up in person and i did uh and um
you know that testimony was interesting
it went viral
right it got up to eight million views
and then before it was uh
taken down um but and i don’t know if
you know this but i was a little fired
up that day
um and one of the things that fired me
up was that um
i was insulted uh by um you know the the
ranking member it’s the minority party
and they walked out they actually didn’t
stick around they thought it was a
fraudulent hearing
by they they accused us of being
politicians and not scientists
and and being more of uh you know acting
towards political goals rather than
scientific and i
was i was really angry to hear that
number one
I’M VERY LEFT-WING I’M A DEMOCRAT TO BE
INSULTED BY MY OWN PARTY AND DISCREDITED
AS SOMEONE WHO’S LOOKING FOR POLITICAL
GAINS OR SOMETHING I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST
LUDICROUS um and also you know i
all i do is work as a doctor i work so
hard trying to do the best thing i can
for patients and to be insulted like
that
i don’t know it just set me um and then
also
just spending a year just seeing so many
mistakes and so many things
that people are getting wrong um i gave
what i guess is an impassioned speech
but boy did people seem to respond very
positively from all over the world i
mean
like every country like immediately
translated it and put it up everywhere
and it was pretty interesting
yeah and and this is before the senate
so it’s the leading i mean but this is
the leading legislative
legislate tour in the united states
isn’t it that you can yep
yeah did you get any formal feedback
from that did they accept any of your
testimony or what happened
so the testament goes into the record i
think
with youtube and the dissemination
around the world i think it triggered uh
i wouldn’t say this is a rev well it is
partly a revolution if you see what
happened around ivermectin since my
testimony
you know especially south africa i was
very active in south africa after the
testimony i started giving lectures paul
merrick started giving lectures
and they were crit they criminalized it
and now they went from criminalizing it
to a whole bunch of doctors and
advocates and scientists in south africa
now first they got it for compassionate
use now they got it legal
yeah and they’re starting to compound it
and it’s being used wildly in south
africa and so
so that’s just one country um we’ve had
very little formal response in the u.s
in fact the u.s
is just a lockdown um you can’t talk
about ivermectin
no major media will talk about it in
fact the only ones that will talk to me
are kind of far right
uh newspapers or television um i’ve only
had like
maybe one or two center uh credible
uh news organ like i was on a tv show
once that’s kind of a daytime
uh talk yeah but it’s been very little
it’s all been very politically on the
right
the the idea that um you should have a
particular
medical opinion based on your political
opinion is just
absurd beyond description thank you for
i mean
we say like science is not political so
“
B.O.B.
America is a trash country run by trash people. Americans want this so let them have it- good and hard.
Plague Species
Test
Plague Species
Why would they not raise the price on Ivermectin like they have Insulin and then sell it like it’s the vaccine as a necessity to manage the virus just as Insulin is a necessity to manage Diabetes if it was all about making money?
Trump acquiesced to Fauci’s request to remove Obama’s ban on Gain-In-Function research. Fauci then conspired to have the GIF research outsourced to China in Wuhan where more than likely the Frankenstein virus created by the Bat Lady infected some of her colleagues and made its way into the general population from there where it was quickly transported to Italy where it mutated to a more pernicious variant.
Trump greased the skids for this virus to be created in a lab and accidentally released and then he refused to allow it to be properly managed, if the will to do so existed outside of him, so he doubly screwed the pooch. Hey Rand Paul, call out McDonald Trump for granting Fauci’s request to remove Obama’s ban and give Obama kudos for banning it.
Essentials for McDonald Trump. You gotta love it.
gnokgnoh
GM, who’s declaring the pandemic over? Most of the rest of the world is a “do not fly” zone declared by the US State Department.
bruce wilder
Meanwhile, on another front: The Washington Post (Elizabeth Dwoskin) reports:
I mention this — not to derail the thread — but because, reading this post and the comment thread, I feel at sea, uncertain that I know anything about anything. I’ve never mention ivermectin in a comment, because I wouldn’t know how to evaluate it or who to trust to evaluate it, though in general I think the reluctance in the public discourse to discuss and publicize effective treatment protocols does reflect, as Ian implies, elite incompetence and negligence. Many of the other comments — I will not be specific, because I do not want to start an argument when I cannot hold up my end (and I cannot, which is my point) — seem to “know” a lot that I do not know and would not know how to confirm or refute. Lots of anecdata, that I do not have access to, I guess.
I do agree with the theme of Ian’s OP — prompted by the announcement that an agency with official responsibility for “finding out” will deliberately not investigate — well, it is shocking, but not unexpected. Hugh is disappointed that the incompetence of the CDC/WHO is pretty much the same under Biden as it was under Trump, and he so enjoyed bullying everyone with the thesis that it was Trump murdering hundreds of thousands. So sad.
And, I do think policy in most countries, but especially the U.S., has aimed from the beginning at making COVID-19 globally endemic, which I am guessing it now is. It will recur for decades if not centuries, like influenza or measles or bubonic plague. That — the practical implication of policy if not the conscious intent of its (possibly obscure) authors is obvious and public. We can hide from it or, as Ian says, know it in our bones. I think it is just too hard for most people to know it in their bones. But, then there were those Bolshevicks. My grandmother, bless her working class heart, hated President Hoover.
But there is also the crazy-making propaganda that I quote above: Facebook is protecting us, you see, from the Russkies and PR professionals everywhere. Jeff Bezos’ Daily Shopper tells me so. We are all swimming and drowning in oceans of this nonsense, sunk below the surface, confused about which way is up or where the air is. And, we grab hold of narratives with no way to confirm or deny — and no institution with resources responsibly or competently monitoring or investigating. COVID-19 is small potatoes compared to climate-change and energy use, where the policy is to drive the world off the cliff of ecological collapse, while leaving ordinary people to make Tik-Tok videos.
Chipper
I had assumed that the resistance to declaring covid airborne was entirely due to not wanting the added costs of implementing protections for an airborne virus (and I still believe that’s part of it), but this Wired article says there’s a lot more to it than that. I’m not trying to make excuses for the WHO or CDC — I was especially disappointed by the CDC, because I assumed they were better than that — but it’s an interesting example of how we get things wrong even when we have all the relevant information to get them right.
I hope you’ll consider reading the whole article; my excerpt doesn’t do it justice.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
“The groundbreaking results [ showing that Tuberculosis is airborne ] were published in 1962. Wells died in September of the following year. A month later, Langmuir mentioned the late engineer in a speech to public health workers. It was Wells, he said, that they had to thank for illuminating their inadequate response to a growing epidemic of tuberculosis. He emphasized that the problematic particles—the ones they had to worry about—were smaller than 5 microns.
“Inside Randall’s head, something snapped into place. She shot forward in time, to that first tuberculosis guidance document where she had started her investigation. She had learned from it that tuberculosis is a curious critter; it can only invade a subset of human cells in the deepest reaches of the lungs. Most bugs are more promiscuous. They can embed in particles of any size and infect cells all along the respiratory tract.
“What must have happened, she thought, was that after Wells died, scientists inside the CDC conflated his observations. They plucked the size of the particle that transmits tuberculosis out of context, making 5 microns stand in for a general definition of airborne spread. Wells’ 100-micron threshold got left behind. “You can see that the idea of what is respirable, what stays airborne, and what is infectious are all being flattened into this 5-micron phenomenon,” Randall says. Over time, through blind repetition, the error sank deeper into the medical canon. The CDC did not respond to multiple requests for comment. “
Plague Species
True. What are the “Russkies” doing about “climate-change and enrgy use” considering they’re large potatoes in comparison to COVFEFE-45? We know what America isn’t doing but should be, so what about Russia? China?
Plague Species
Not a mask to be found. Breathing all over one another. Swapping spit. Practically kissing. I’m sure they’re all vaccinated. Not that it matters. Being outside provides full immunity, vaccinated or not. Or maybe they’re all taking Ivermectin. Secretly.
https://telanganatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Mickelson-PGA-tour.jpg
metamars
@PS
“Trump acquiesced to Fauci’s request to remove Obama’s ban on Gain-In-Function research. ”
And where is your proof of this? I’m hoping the MAGA movement dump Trump (except as cheerleader and fundraiser, which he’s actually good at), so trust me when I tell you, if it’s true, I’ll be shoving it in the face of at least some of the Trump fanatics. Then, again, now that Fauci’s involvement is becoming widely known (thank-you Rand Paul, though I have to wonder where you were, a year ago….) any Trump blessing of removing a gain of function research ban is the sort of thing they will trumpet, far and wide. 3 years of Russiagate Big Lie implies 3 years of “Trump funded covid creation research” is a slam dunk. Then, again, they’re such liars, that even if they know that Trump not only had nothing to do with such a decision, but didn’t even know what “gain of function” research is, they’d lie about it, anyway.
“Why would they not raise the price on Ivermectin like they have Insulin and then sell it like it’s the vaccine as a necessity to manage the virus just as Insulin is a necessity to manage Diabetes if it was all about making money?”
This is a good question, though I don’t know the details of making insulin. If it is as cheap to make as ivermectin, then it’s a really good question.
Insulin is a hormone, and it’s structure is very complicated, compared to ivermectin. But my knowledge of chemical synthesis is practically non-existent.
In any event, it’s obvious that, for whatever reason, many governments, aided by tech giants, mainstream media, and their medical bureaucracy, around the world, have effectively colluded in terrorizing their own citizens. There was a video, from early on in the pandemic, that showed world leaders from a few different, very small countries parroting the same WHO talking points. As I documented on governmentincompetence.org, EVERY US state government website’s covid section failed to mention vitamin D.
These are not coincidences.
gnokgnoh
It’s not that difficult to do the research. The government is not hiding it. Many therapies were touted, many by Trump. These included remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir/ritonavir, interferon, convalescent plasma, and monoclonal antibody therapy. This April NCBI/NIH study (just over a month ago) notes that many recent, randomized controlled trials for these therapies did NOT reduce mortality. The only one that did was corticosteroids for mild to severe Covid patients.
Ivermectin is just starting to show results, often using testing and publication on an emergency release basis, described as, “half of the remaining trials data are from manuscripts uploaded to medical preprint servers, a now standard practice for both rapid dissemination and adoption of new therapeutics throughout the pandemic.
I frankly do not understand the critiques of the CDC and WHO about this particular issue (ivermectin). These agencies must rely on testing that is only now showing results. They were wise not to tout hydroxy and other therapies. They did not and do not work.
Hugh
I remember posting part of this before but this is where you can read what the NIH has to say about ivermectin.
https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/antiviral-therapy/ivermectin/
Basically, so far some studies have shown a positive effect and others haven’t. And there have been problems in some of the studies as well.
anon y'mouse
Ian posts that people who are vaccinated can still catch it and spread it and die of it, and within the first three posts in this thread we find basically
—fake accept those terms as true in their own right, then…
—obvious and deliberate obfuscate those terms and turn them into their opposites via claiming that the people who die will be “suiciding” and that the virus will only run rampant within the non-vaccinated population and therefore it is only the NON vaccinated that will drive this disease from henceforward.
“If Covid becomes chronic, it will because of the 19% of the population that refuses to get vaccinated enabling the virus to incubate and mutate.”
your comment section smells of OPS. these two comments right here are spreading essentially lies that totally are at variance with the main thrust of the post.
is the virus much less severe if you’ve had your shots–seems to be true.
but since they never actually repeatedly tested either subject group in the trials, relying on people coming down with an obvious case, then we have no idea what the true infection rate was of either of those two test groups.
what’s scary is things like what happened in Marek’s disease, but instead of in chickens it will be in us.
and here you have, ready to had, propagandists in your comment section ready to blame the “unvaccinated” for that, instead of admit the truth.
because there’s a lot of money riding on everyone going to sleep right now. and when the virus first came on the scene, there were tons of OPS out on message boards throughout the web playing it down and touting herd immunity and doing all kinds of “pre-priming” messaging so that hopefully people wouldn’t believe it was serious and would think that anyone claiming it was dangerous was “hyping hysteria”. and half of the country still operating on this deliberately spread disinfo.
yeah, i’m pointing the finger. your comment section has always had problems, but it seems obvious some of your commenters are interested in blaming unvaccinateds for the problems created by a vaccine that merely lessens severity of the disease. when vaccinateds can still catch and spread the disease, possibly without even knowing it. and the authorities deliberately changing how to account for it to create the appearance that the vaccines are actually sterilizing.
way to go, kids. proving which side certain posters are on is helpful
Plague Species
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/health/lethal-viruses-nih.html
And don’t hand me the incompetent clown excuse for McDonald Trump. This happened under his watch. It was in plain sight. The NYT even reported on it for all to see. If he was this stupid and incompetent and could be manipulated so easily, he had no business and has no business leading and instead should be sweeping up after hours and cleaning bathrooms versus parading around as an orange billionaire.
If that article isn’t a smoking gun coupled with Nicholas Wade’s excellent work, nothing is. McDonald has only himself and Fauci to blame and all those who support and enable these two monsters. He blames China when it was by his hand that this all came about and by his hand that he stymied any effective response to the pandemic once it was formally declared a pandemic or even before considering he and his admin knew more than the public before the the public was aware.
I bet Fauci manipulated McDonald by framing this as an undoing of one of Obama’s executive orders. McDonald was eager to undue anything Obama had ever done and Fauci knew it.
Hugh
There seems to be very little interest in doing some googling and finding out how the immune system works, vaccination, or about viruses. Rather like every other topic, these become hooks on which people’s preconceived notions and standard prejudices can be hung. As always, it is conclusions first, and stop there.
Plague Species
https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/who-we-are/nih-director/statements/nih-lifts-funding-pause-gain-function-research
Yes, you did and do have a responsibility and you didn’t abide. You were grossly negligent and should be held to account. You should be stripped of your credentials. You’re a pariah as is Fauci in my eyes. Exploitative opportunists. Dr. Jekylls.
“Let’s make lots of money.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyeWRd7ZEBs
WasteMaker
Is it possible the CDC is trying to average out all the over-counting they did at the beginning of the pandemic to spread the noxious poison of fear? You know, like, all those people who had a gunshot wound or diabetes yet were counted as COVID deaths
js
I don’t think any of it proves which side posters are on. I think there is a great deal of hysteria (or choose less loaded term) frankly.
The reports of long covid from the vaccinated, have much data on this? I do realize there is a bit of a catch 22 if we don’t collect data, and yes it is bad not to, but at the same time relying on speculation doesn’t seem a good course either, and that’s mostly what I’ve seen: speculation on vaccinated people getting long covid.
The 1.5% deaths of the breakthrough cases is probably actually a much smaller number because the vast majority of post vaccination cases will be asymptomatic, and will never be caught. The link said it relies on self reports and voluntary testing, so the denominator is actually much bigger. And there probably is such a thing as an acceptable risk of death. I know that’s offensive morally, and yes it is morally worthy to treat every life as sacred. But in reality we do many things with some risk: drive, take other medications, fly and yet planes crash, a lot of work is somewhat dangerous (I’m pro-worker safety don’t get me wrong), pregnancy carries a very real though smallish risk of death – it’s more every year than have died of breakthrough covid and much younger, but we consider it okay.
Was the mask mandate removed to fast? I think so, but not so much due to breakthrough covid cases, but because have we really given those who don’t have time off work, don’t have transportation, aren’t skilled at navigating the system, the ability to get vaccinated? I don’t think so, not until we have vaccines on every block, go door to door with them, seek out people. It’s true we don’t know how long vaccine protection lasts.
As for getting back to normal: with some of it like social contact we’re dealing with basic human biological needs (for most, no disrespect meant to hermits at all). With others it seems driven by the very captives of the system believing in it, like all anyone wants to do now is go shopping apparently, if resource shortages in everything are to be believed.
metamars
Thanks to the wonders of Google, I was already aware that the ban was lifted UNDER the Trump administration.
You seem to readily conflate Trump/should with Trump/did. Apparently, you’re doing this from a blinding hatred of Trump, because Trump/should is damning enough. But you get more satisfaction from Trump/did, so you just come out with it, whether it’s a lie, or not.
I already have bashed the Trump fanatics with lots of different Trump/should (but didn’t). But a solid Trump/did, with respect to GoF funding, might awaken even some of the remaining fanatics. You’re not helping….
For insight into how chaotic and duplicitous (against Trump) the Trump White House was, see Patrick Byrne’s expose of how Trump let an election be stolen, at his website @ deepcapture.com.
gnokgnoh
WasteMaker,
No. National Center for Health Statistics
marku52
Here’s a story about the Ivermectin censorship. for some reason, can’t be published in major media, even tho the author is a NYT best selling author.
https://www.mountainhomemag.com/2021/05/01/356270/the-drug-that-cracked-covid
Plague Species
The buck stopped with McDonald then just as it stops with Biden now. I see Biden has not “paused” the funding after McDonald removed Obama’s pause. I won’t give Biden a pass for not knowing about it just as I won’t give McDonald a pass for not knowing about it.
I go beyond Rand Paul. GIF should be banned period. It will never be done safely and the risk is too great. The benefits, lots of money, do not justify the risks, lots of deaths.
So metamars, are you going to tell me McDonald didn’t dismantle Obama’s pandemic response team? That he had no knowledge? That he was manipulated? That he was an innocent invalid? Are you going to tell me Obama had no hand in placing the pause on the NIH’s funding of GIF research? Was Obama manipulated by his admin in making that pause? If not, why not?
js
“Here’s a story about the Ivermectin censorship. for some reason, can’t be published in major media, even tho the author is a NYT best selling author.”
I’m not sure why one sees this as censorship. Why does writing books that sell well, on completely unrelated topics, make one think they will be taken as an expert on whatever topic they choose to write about? Yes they have a better known name than joe blow but does that mean much? Because anyone making publishing decisions, if they aren’t digging into scientific studies themselves, is making a judgement on expertise especially as he is not employed by any media organization. I’m not saying he is wrong or right on Ivermectin, just I’m not sure calling it censorship adds anything other than paranoia.
metamars
“buck stops with McDonald” is distinct from “McDonald knew about the buck”
Whether you like it, or not.
Whether you care about the distinction, or not.
Plague Species
Is there anything McDonald knew about, metamars, or do you pick and choose whatever he knew based on what minimizes his culpability? Did he know about the tax cut for the wealthy elite that he signed into law, for example? Did he know about all the pardons he granted? Does he know he’s orange?
Mark Pontin
metamars: _Insulin is a hormone, and it’s structure is very complicated, compared to ivermectin.._
Much more complicated.
Ivermectin is a classic small, stable molecule such as Big Pharma usually loves (ironically).
Insulin is a peptide hormone, conversely. We used to extract it from cattle from the 1920s through the 1960s.
Then in the late 1960s scientists started being able to synthesize it in labs, and in the 1970s the first biotech startup, Genentech, was set up to produce biosynthetic human insulin via E coli bacteria using recombinant DNA technology — then a revolutionary thing, now your granddad’s genetic engineering.
Finally, in 1982 Genentech got FDA approval — the first-ever approved genetically engineered human therapeutic. It was a very big deal in its day.
Mark Pontin
I just glanced at the Ivermectin wiki page to make sure I wasn’t talking out of my ass about it. And yeah, it’s a small, stable molecule. But I can see why there would be reservations about its overuse….
‘Mechanism of action
‘Ivermectin and its related drugs act by interfering with nerve and muscle function of helminths and insects. The drug binds to glutamate-gated chloride channels that are common to invertebrate nerve and muscle cells. Ivermectin binding pushes these channels open, increasing the flow of chloride ions and hyper-polarizing the cell membranes. This hyperpolarization paralyzes the affected tissue, eventually killing the invertebrate. In mammals (including humans) glutamate-gated chloride channels are restricted to the brain and spinal cord; ivermectin cannot cross the blood-brain barrier and so it does not make it to the brain to affect mammalian channels.
‘Pharmacokinetics
‘Ivermectin can be given by mouth, topically, or via injection. It does not readily cross the blood–brain barrier of mammals due to the presence of P-glycoprotein (the MDR1 gene mutation affects function of this protein). ***Crossing may still become significant if ivermectin is given at high doses (in which case, brain levels peak 2–5 hours after administration).***’
And specifically as regards ….
‘In vitro, ivermectin has antiviral effects against several distinct positive-sense single-strand RNA viruses, including SARS-CoV-2. Subsequent studies found that ivermectin could inhibit replication of SARS-CoV-2 in monkey kidney cell culture with an IC50 of 2.2–2.8 μM. ***Based on this information, doses much higher than the maximum approved or safely achievable for use in humans would be required for an antiviral effect.***’
Now, granted this is just the wiki. But it makes sense. If it’s true, Ivermectin might serve as one weapon in the arsenal against the coronavirus, but it’s a poor one — certainly not the the desirable first recourse that some here have suggested.
someofparts
Facebook is the Walmart of media.
metamars
@PS: All these dumb questions because you’re asked to support your claim that Trump, himself, approved the cessation of the GoF ban?
Why not just say, “Aw, that was just my opinion”; or just ignore the question?
Your tap-dancing suggests that you either fabricated the claim; or else misrepresented what you actually know. Or, worst of all, you are incapable of disambiguating the two, distinct claims.
Not impressive, in any case.
If Trump, himself, approved the lifting of GoF, then I think it’s likely he’ll be outed. Why would Fauci, the little Nazi, NOT want to push blame upwards, onto Trump, if Trump were so deserving?
Related:
“Peter Navarro Says ‘Sociopath’ Anthony Fauci Will Be ‘Gone Within 90 Days'”
Plague Species
So there we have it. There is no price gouging on insulin. It’s price is high because it’s complex whereas you can make ivermectin in your kitchen like Russians make krokodil. Alittle of this, a little of that, and bam, you’ve got ivermectin — the miracle COVFEFE-45 Buster.
Plague Species
https://www.drugs.com/price-guide/ivermectin
It may not be a complex formulation compared to insulin, but it’s priced similarly. According to that link, if you take a tablet a day to ward off endemic lurking COVFEFE-45, it will run you at least $100 per month.
Plague Species
This explains properly why the price of any drug is or isn’t high. Complexity of the formulation is ancillary at best especially if it’s a long established drug like insulin. The nerve of you to act coy about my valid point that if ivermectin was all that it is made out to be by the anti-vax crowd, the wealthy elite via their drug companies would garner the market and raise the price as is done with insulin. They would justify it by improving it ever so slightly like they have done with insulin and having the FDA do their dirty work by making it prohibitive for any upstarts to try to create a generic by making the regulations surrounding the approval process unnecessarily complex as the article indicates is done with insulin.
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/3/18293950/why-is-insulin-so-expensive
Soredemos
@js
I mean, we do live in a media landscape where Bill Gates is considered some sort of omnipotent ur expert who can be consulted on things wildly unrelated to computers or business.
marku52
I guess you didn’t read the article. Dr Kory testified to congress that Ivermectin had trial data showing that it worked, and actual doctor experince showing the same. His testimony on Youtube got 8 million views before it was pulled.
“Three days after Kory’s testimony, an Associated Press “fact-check reporter” interviewed Kory “for twenty minutes in which I recounted all of the existing trials evidence (over fifteen randomized and multiple observational trials) all showing dramatic benefits of Ivermectin,” he said. Then she wrote: “AP’S ASSESSMENT: False. There’s no evidence Ivermectin has been proven a safe or effective treatment against COVID-19.” Like many critics, she didn’t explore the Ivermectin data or evidence in any detail, but merely dismissed its “insufficient evidence,”
…
“On January 12, 2021, the Brazilian Ministry of Health tweeted to its 1.2 million followers not to wait with COVID-19 until it’s too late but “go to a Health Unit and request early treatment,” only to have Twitter take down the official public health pronouncement of the sovereign fifth largest nation in the world for “spreading misleading and potentially harmful information.” (Early treatment is code for Ivermectin.) On January 31, the Slovak Ministry of Health announced its decision on Facebook to allow use of Ivermectin, causing Facebook to take down that post and removed the entire page it was on, the Ivermectin for MDs Team, with 10,200 members from more than 100 countries.”
All members of the peer review process of Frontiers of Pharmacology resigned because after repeated reviews and addressing all concerns of a study showing strong benefits of IVM, the editors simply refused to publish it, no reason given. Note, the Gates foundation gives a lot of money to Frontiers, and they simply don’t care about anything except BIg Pharma making money on vaccines.
If that aint censorship, you are welcome to provide me with a definition.
NR
Jesus H Tapdancing Christ, these comments are an absolute shitshow.
Hugh
People will believe what they believe. It’s like the try-outs for the Darwin Awards.
someofparts
“If it’s true, Ivermectin might serve as one weapon in the arsenal against the coronavirus, but it’s a poor one — certainly not the the desirable first recourse that some here have suggested.”
Thanks for that clarification.
Mark Pontin
@ someofparts
Hey, let’s not get carried away. That’s just my assessment from looking at the wiki on Ivermectin and how it works.
However, the account there of what targets it hits and how it does that makes sense, and it doesn’t airbrush the SARS-CoV2 therapeutic aspects out of the picture.
So if we accept that account, the question becomes: how much Ivermectin constitutes a toxic dose in humans?
And obviously that’s going to very widely across the range of human individuals.
I’ve seen varying accounts from people who’ve taken it over the course of a season in Africa as a prophylactic against malaria. Some people weren’t bothered; for others, it was a deeply unpleasant experience they never wanted to repeat.
The bottom line seems to be that if SARS-CoV2 is going to be endemic — and it almost surely is to some extent — then large numbers of people are not going to be take it as a prophylactic month after month, year after year, without serious negative consequences for some of them.
So: a tool. But more work needs to be done. Vaccines are better.
Plague Species
It’s not at the blame pushing stage and may never come to that at least as it relates to the lifting of the ban. That’s why Fauci would NOT, or at least NOT at this time and probably never.
Fauci wants to lay low on this ban lifting issue and remain under the radar so to speak. He’ll let Collins field all the heat or any heat that arises from this until he can duck it no longer if it ever comes to that and we know it won’t because?
Because why, metamars? Because we don’t live in a society where those with status and those with power and those in charge are held to account. You’re only held to account if you’re an Unwashed Essential.
You are an enabler of that, metamars, so that makes you at best an unwitting stooge for the wealthy elite and at worst one of their sycophantic NonEssentials fully conscious of the fact you’re doing their bidding by spreading the gospel of unaccountability to all the rubes who will listen and be persuaded by that irresponsible messaging.
Peter Navarro? Are you joking quoting that crumb on anything? I won’t argue that Fauci has the characteristics of a psycopath but so too do Navarro and McDonald Trump. So it’s pots, pots of feces I might add, calling the Fauci kettle black.
It simply doesn’t matter whether McDonald knew specifically or if Biden knows specifically, what matters is that it’s under their watch so to speak and they are accountable for ANYTHING that goes down under their watch. That’s the price of power or it should be. It is in my world, but apparently not in your twisted insane world.
What I want Obama to do is call Biden out on not reinstating the ban and implore him to ban GIF research, all things considered. Obama has been pretty vocal and opinionated this past year and this is an extremely important topic to ALL inhabitants of this living planet. Biden has reversed other McDonald edicts so he can, and should, reverse this one too.
Jason
Just sit out in the sun and meditate all day. Forego curds and whey in the interest of legumes. and zinc tablets.
Get yer jabs here. Prizes too.
Synoptocon
Iron law of blog commentary: You get the commentators you deserve.
(Also holds true for unions.)
different clue
I am looking at this blog after a long vacation with zero internet access.
The nice thing about INcompentent psychopaths is that they can not hide their psychopathy, and it becomes evident to more and more people.
For example, the CDC and WHO spent a year pretending there was no aerosol dispersal of Coronavid and spent that year trying their hardest to suppress and gaslight any thinking and speaking about that from outside their fortresses of spin control. Their INcompentent psychopathy in that regard has left them loathed and distrusted by many millions of people. If they had been better quality psychopaths, like Obama, aerosol transmission of Coronavid would still be dismissed as a “conspiracy theory” unto this very day.
jrkrideau
@ gnokgnoh
That April study you reference seems to have been withdrawn during a general brawl.
Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19. https://blog.frontiersin.org/2021/03/02/2-march-2021-media-statement/
metamars
From the “as if that’s not enough” department, there was a slightly shocking comment #25 to the moonofalabama article “The ‘Lab-Leak’ Theory Is Not Of Equal Value – Promoting It Furthers The China Hawks”
(emphasis mine)
So, here’s a conspiracy theory that I consider quite plausible. (It’s probably one of George Webb’s theories.)
The US created covid-19, and released the virus in Wuhan, during the military games there, in 2019. The US also funded work on the virus, in Wuhan, via EcoHealth.
Possibly, semi-weaponized precursors were smuggled out of China, weaponized/developed in the US, then returned to Wuhan, for release.
IOW, China was the designated fall guy, should a fall guy be needed. Trump was off-script with blaming China, when he did, since he is not an insider. Ah, but now the US is abandoning efforts to “engage” with China. See “Biden’s Top Asia Official Says US Engagement With China Is Over” at antiwar.com.
In this origin scenario, Tony Fauci would have to share credit for being “godfather of the virus” with some Deep State Dr. Strangeloves. So, Fauci, the little Nazi, may be more of a Goering, to DoD Mengele’s. And NATO Hitlers:
I vaguely recall George Webb discussing some Dutch NATO related people as likely perps for the Wuhan release.
The motivations for such biological warfare may well be multi-pronged, satisfying disparate elite agendas. “A great reset”, never-ending profits from an annual vaccine for Big Pharma, downgrading China’s status as a global supplier, stifling China’s military rise, etc. (China actually came out ahead, certainly compared to the rest of the industrialized world, so this line of thought requires desperate, and or idiotic elites. Probably not a problem!)
====================
As I’ve expressed previously, the idea that US intel didn’t know as soon as Wuhan shut down domestic travel to/from Wuhan, is laughable. Furthermore, I vaguely recall the earliest covid-19 strain was backdated to the US.
There’s another comment this moonofalabama thread that relates to this: “Has the fact that COVID was found in Spanish sewage samples from early 2019 and from Italian cancer patients in fall 2019 been memory-holed? How about the COVID antibodies found in US blood donation samples from the fall of 2019?”
I’m not a virologist, but a Western origin seems, to me, to be yet additional evidence that the virus was engineered here; since there aren’t many Chinese bats hanging around in Spain, Italy, or the US.
Hugh
metamars, everyone knows it was the Martians. All those UFO stories coming out recently just a coincidence? I think not.
metamars
From the “What could possibly go wrong? (A: Anything, you moron! That’s why testing protocols exist!)” Department:
” The synthetic “spike” proteins generated by Wuhan coronavirus (Covid-19) “vaccines” are capable of harming not just women’s reproductive organs but also men’s, warns Dr. Roger Hodkinson of Western Medical Assessments.
In a recent interview, Dr. Hodkinson explained that there is now “sufficient evidence in the literature” to suggest that vaccine spike proteins express themselves both in the placenta and the testes. For pregnant women, this could mean a terminated pregnancy. For men, it could spell the end of having children altogether.
As for Prince Harry and other “celebrities” encouraging people to go out and get jabbed, Dr. Hodkinson says these people have “nothing between [their] ears” and should be ignored as clueless.*
……
“I’m a serious evidence-based career pathologist who has done everything in pathology at national and provincial levels and I take evidence-based science very, very seriously,” he stated at the meeting.
“I’m not a conspiracy theorist. I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I’m none of the above. But when I see certain things in the literature that could – underlined – have serious potential long-term sequelae, I think it’s my duty to stand up and blow the whistle and say, ‘Hey, stop the train, have you seen this? It needs to be looked at.’ I hope it’s wrong but show me the data.”
Legitimate vaccine trials would have taken four years, not six months” (emphasis mine)
* Ah, so Prince Harry is the Greta Thunberg of vaccines! Quite an honor!
metamars
The above is from “Covid vaccine spike proteins attack male fertility, too”, which is on a website I’m unfamiliar with, called cracknews dot com. That’s an awful name, hopefully implying nothing about their quality…
Plague Species
If the vaccines attack fertility in both males and females, that’s a good thing. Make it mandatory that everyone on this planet get one — every year. So we can get population numbers under control quickly. Also, make voluntary euthanasia legal and incentivize older folks to kick off early if they wish.
Plague Species
Speaking of vaccines, there is every reason and justification for the vaccination rate numbers to be fudged at this point considering America has hit The Vaccine Wall. One of the cable news outlets mentioned the other day that 50% of Americans are now fully vaccinated. No way. I do not believe that. I would like to see how this data is being accumulated/tabulated.
Plague Species
NPR just mentioned that the 50% number relates to the number of people who have at least one shot. The cable news reported it as the number of people vaccinated. The cable news is misinforming. It’s deceptive. It leaves the impression that it’s 50% vaccinated when it’s not.
McDonald was right about this. He predicted that if Biden won, even though he refutes that victory, the pandemic would be declared over and the media would not longer be interested. He’s wrong in that the media is interested. Interested in declaring the pandemic over yet undercounting is going on and in Fauci’s own words was going on all along even before Biden’s victory for all of 2020.
I don’t see that what Biden has done is that materially different than what McDonald did in managing the pandemic response. His team has certainly stage-managed it better, but it’s mostly hot air and Biden has a complaint press with the exception of Fox News.
different clue
The German Intelligence-Army Officer which calls itself Moon of Alabama has long been an antiAmericanitic culture-racist antiAmericanite. You can tell this by reading its “blame America every time for every event” commentary over time.
This “US invented the virus” line is a ChinaGov CommuNazi blood libel invented to cover the ChinaGov’s own responsibility in this affair.
NL
different clue PERMALINK
May 28, 2021
The German Intelligence-Army Officer which calls itself Moon of Alabama
Hmmm, interesting… do you know any other blogs run by intelligence officers? We are all ears…
different clue
@NL,
I think that Mr. Moon of Alabama is a former intelligence officer, retired from the West German Army. He is just a political commentator/ blog-runner now.
Colonel ( Retired) Pat Lang was with the Defense Intelligence Agency for some years. But he is long since retired too, and is now a blog-runner. He is listed in Ian Welsh’s blog roll.
I remember Larry Johnson used to be an intelligence analyst ( I think) at the CIA, but he is retired too. He had a blog called No Quarter for years, but then shut it down. Lately, he has been a guest-poster on Colonel Lang’s Sic Semper Tyrannis blog.
That’s all the knowledge I have, I’m afraid.
NL
@different clue
That was a rhetorical question.
I have no reason to suspect Moon of Alabama to be an intelligence officer. If he were one, he certainly does not get any special insight from his previous employment. He is often wrong, and sources that are more likely to be associated with security/diplomatic services are more on the spot. He does not seem to even have an agenda, except for moderate anti-Americanism (his blog commenters is a different story). He always tells the other side of the story, but would we read him if he told the mainstream narrative? He seems to pick a story and then trolls the internet for more info on this. Maybe he has one of those internet data mining software or may be he just uses Google. In any event, he is often useful as a provider of a summary of the other story.
Pat Lang and Co don’t hide their previous associations, but they seem to have a agenda — what’s up with the unabashed Trump support and COVID is just a flu?