“But there is also already a casualty on the side of the plotters against Trump.
The new Ukrainian president was looking for ways to make peace with Russia and had hoped that Trump would help him. The hawks had installed Kurt Volker as U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine to prevent any such moves. Volker, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, had been hired by then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson but had demanded no pay. Volker is the hawkish head of the McCain Institute which received donations from George Soros’ Open Society. He is also a partner in a public relation company that was hired by then President of Ukraine Poroshenko.
The whistleblower complain says that Volker visited Zelensky on July 26, one day after his call with Trump, to “provide advice to the Ukrainian leadership about how to ‘navigate’ the demands that the President had made of Mr. Zelenskyy.”
Volker was the ‘borg’ member sent to Ukraine to exercise control over the Ukrainian government. He clearly tried to sabotage Trump’s efforts to push Zelensky to investigate the Ukrainian side of the Russiagate and Biden affairs. Volker also wanted to prevent better relations with Russia.”
So who nominated Tillerson to be Secretary of State? Donald Trump.
But Tillerson must have been really anti-Russia, right? No doubt this is why, when he was the CEO of ExxonMobil, he was awarded the Russian Order of Friendship by some guy named Putin.
And Zelensky had to be pro-Russia because well, Russia invaded Crimea and its proxy army was occupying Eastern Ukraine. Zelensky must have wanted that $390 million in military aid Trump was withholding because nothing says friendship more than a lot of Javelin missiles.
Oh, Volker obviously was sabotaging Trump’s efforts to investigate Biden when he dutifully set Giuliani up with Ukrainian contacts as per his instructions from the White House. And he had to be up to no good when he took on the impossible task of trying to “navigate” the situation that Trump’s illegal request had created.
Or I should say legal request since it is only the US Code that says it wasn’t.
52 U.S. Code § 30121. Contributions and donations by foreign nationals
(a) Prohibition It shall be unlawful for—
(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
[that is (A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election; (B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party]
“Foreign national” defined As used in this section, the term “foreign national” means—
(1) a foreign principal, as such term is defined by section 611(b) of title 22 [i.e. foreign government, corporation, group, or entity], except that the term “foreign national” shall not include any individual who is a citizen of the United States; or (2) an individual who is not a citizen of the United States or a national of the United States
So yes, Trump violated this law by soliciting an investigation against a political opponent but laws have become so quaint nowadays. Or as Vladimir Putin would no doubt add, “What is an invasion between friends?”
“The new Ukrainian president was looking for ways to make peace with Russia”
hugh:
“And Zelensky had to be pro-Russia because well, Russia invaded Crimea and its proxy army was occupying Eastern Ukraine.”
Russia can easily decimate Ukraine in a war, even using non-nuclear weapons. Furthermore, Nordstream-2 will allow Russia to bypass Ukraine in sending oil to Europe. It’s in Ukraine’s self-interest to have good relations with Russia, even if it despises Russia.
Likewise, it’s in the US’s interest to have good relations with Russia, even if US elites despise Russia. That’s because they can decimate us with strategic nuclear weapons. (And vice versa, of course.) Plus, we do have some mutual enemies, ya know.
According to the Wall Street Journal, the DOJ officials who were reviewing the referral did not include in their analysis of a potential campaign finance violation the suggestion that Trump withheld military aid from Ukraine as part of his pressure effort. DOJ officials, in their focus on the call record, determined that they could not identify a “thing of value” — a component of a campaign finance violation — that was discussed, Buzzfeed reported.”
“Oh, Volker obviously was sabotaging Trump’s efforts to investigate Biden when he dutifully set Giuliani up with Ukrainian contacts as per his instructions from the White House. ”
I can agree that there’s no smoking gun presented that Volker tried to sabotage Trump’s efforts. One can easily infer, though, from both his background, as well as the demonstrated mess that Ukraine continues to be, despite it’s US sponsorship, that such behavior is plausible. Also, let’s not forget Trump is surrounded by enemies and insubordination (e.g., Bolton was known to do the opposite of what Trump told him.) As for Tillerson, did he act like a friend of Russia, or beholden to Russia, when he was in office? Do tell.
Zelensky is probably not a straight shooter, either. See my next comment.
The moon of alabama article had a comment pointing to a fascinating article by Eric Zuesse
“Here is the dirt Trump wanted from Zelensky about the Bidens and why Zelensky doesn’t want to give it to him — hidden by rampant falsehoods in the press ”
“And then, to top it off, there is the brilliant pewreport blogger, who, on 27 July 2014, headlined “USAID to Help Young Biden: The Burisma File”, and that anonymous person succinctly laid out the use of the U.S. Government to enable the families of some of its top officials to join America’s aristocracy, the billionaire class. It’s something that Trump himself is intimately involved with and exploits, but if America’s national and international police-agencies such as the FBI and CIA are trying (first with Russiagate, and now with Ukrainegate) to replace him by Pence in order to enable another friend of Obama to become installed (like Hillary was supposed to have been) as President and Commander-in-Chief, then this struggle between the agents of America’s Democratic Party billionaires versus those of its Republican Party billionaires could end up having consequences that no one is predicting.
….
But above all, he opposed Poroshenko, because Poroshenko had been forced by the main lenders to his Government to fire Kolomoysky as governor of Dnipropetrovsk and to nationalize his bankrupt PrivatBank due to Kolomoysky’s having been looting from Ukraine’s Government too much money via his bank and via his minority ownership of the Government’s gas company. Obama had wanted that money to go toward the war against Donbass, not into Kolomoysky’s pockets.
…..
Zelensky might fear that if he complies with Trump’s request, then his own major benefactor, Kolomoysky, could end up in prison somewhere; and Trump might fear that if he presses Zelensky on that (as he did not do but Democrats say he did), then the entire Deep State — not only Democratic Party billionaires, but also now Republican ones — will become Trump’s enemies, and his 2020 re-election chances will therefore go to zero. Consequently: Trump will probably abandon the matter, and the till-now-unsupported and maybe unsupportable mere assumption, that Hunter Biden’s Ukrainian benefactor was Zlochevsky instead of Kolomoysky, will continue to be asserted virtually everywhere throughout the U.S. empire, for as long a time as the matter continues to remain in the ‘news’. Of course, if that turns out to be the case, then Joe Biden will continue to be portrayed in this matter as having been a crusader against corruption in Ukraine, instead of as having been the aspiring founder of yet another billionaire American dynasty.
Basically, the new Russiagate charges to replace Trump by Pence, Ukrainegate (as those charges were presented by the CIA ‘whistleblower’ on August 12th and published on September 26th), represent all of the Democratic Party’s billionaires, and many of the Republican Party’s ones, as well. It’s the pinnacle of the Obama-versus-Trump feud, because it represents the Democratic Party’s position on what was Obama’s top international achievement — his conquest (via a coup) against Ukraine. Trump refuses to condemn Obama’s coup against Ukraine, but if he cared about the truth, he would, and the worst that could happen to him then would be that, for once in his life, he’d be fighting for truth, and not just for himself. Apparently, that’s too big a leap for him to take.”
I’ve already noted that it was “interesting” that Pence advised Trump not to declassify his conversation with Zelensky.
Also, others have noted that it was strange how Nancy Pelosi, who was resisting impeachment, flipped so quickly, even after the nothingburger of the transcript was released. (OK, there’s only an impeachment inquiry at this stage.) Dear Nancy is probably more responsive to the Democratic billionaire donor base than she is to “the squad”, so this makes more sense.
I didn’t follow this thread, but George Webb is claiming that “they” have to do the impeachment because Trump interfered with plans to extract money – to the tune of 2/3 of 450 billion dollars – from an Iran-linked repository. This has to do with Trump tearing up the JCPOA. Somehow, a covert server, which Webb calls the Burisma server, is involved.
It is just bizarre that after Russia invaded Ukraine it is in Ukraine’s interests to have friendly relations with Russia. What part of invasion are you having trouble with? And who says Putin wants to have good relations with the West when such relations would foreclose his imperial ambitions? And seriously you are going to hold up Bill Barr, a Trump hack, as an arbiter on what is an isn’t legal in re Trump? Lordie.
Your views on Putin are so foreign to me, that I don’t see much point in refuting them. You can read thesaker.is and moonofalabama.org for a serious look at Putin’s “imperial ambitions”.
Trifkovic at chroniclesmagazine.com, who I think is brilliant, has penned,
“Putin’s Collapsing Credibility (Updated) ”
Although deficient in many ways, Putin has lead the way in developing armaments that rival, if not exceed, the US’. The Russians can’t project imperialistic power far from home, but any country stupid enough to fight them on their territory will be in for a nasty surprise. God help them.
I could be wrong (not being a theologian), but I’d bet you dollars to doughnuts that Greta Thunberg actually outranks the pope of Rome! A “vicar of Christ” is an “earthly representative of Christ”.
But (I’m thinking) a “Successor of Christ” should be able to raise people from the dead, walk on water, etc. At the very least.
Thus, Greta may raise our civilization from the soon-to-be-dead, if we ask her nicely.
Perhaps next time, instead of sailing across the Atlantic, she can walk across. If that doesn’t convince us of our climate sins, I don’t know what will.
Apparently you don’y get the concept of invasion. Russia is the one with hostile relations toward Ukraine. It invaded the place. Ukraine did not invade Russia.
Interesting that Hugh, who is usually so skeptical of US elites, uncritically regurgitates their war machine’s storyline on Ukraine. Whatever one’s opinion on the evils of Russia, it’s obvious the US’s hands are not clean in Ukraine. This necessarily shades all Western reporting of an “invasion” — of an area that was part of Russia for hundreds of years, overwhelmingly populated by Russian-speaking Russians, and became subject to political claims by literal fascists who banned the use of the Russian language in territory they control. And of course, we must not be surprised that children of important US politicians have rushed in to secure their share of the proceeds. If the US has a pattern it’s to kick over an anthill and profit from the chaos.
It is called irredentism. From wiki, irrendentism is any political or popular movement that seeks to claim or reclaim and occupy a land that the movement’s members consider to be a “lost” (or “unredeemed”) territory from their nation’s past. It is not a good thing.
It is the justification the Nazis used to seize Austria, carve up Czechoslovakia, and invade Poland. It is amazing how quickly people can forget their not even that distant history to give Russia a pass on its irredentism.
We definitely have some right thinking Democrats here. So after Obama throws Ukraine into chaos by overthrowing the democratically elected government with Neo Nazis, and Ukrain invalidates Crimea’s Constitution a Referendum was held and and *only* 95% wanted to be part of Russia. An Invasion. Only a Democrat would argue a persons right to be self determination includes being raped and pillaged to enrich the Democrats to the same level as the Republicans for “fairness”.
So let’s see, when a majority of Chechens wanted out of Russia, they were crushed with Putin cheering on their suppression, but when Putin does the same thing in Crime, ponderer thinks that’s great. How’s the weather in Moscow, p, or are you just a useful stooge?
“Deterioration has increased in recent decades: constant pollution, the continued use of fossil fuels, intensive agricultural exploitation and deforestation are causing global temperatures to rise above safe levels. The increase in the intensity and frequency of extreme weather phenomena and the desertification of the soil are causing immense hardship for the most vulnerable among us. Melting of glaciers, scarcity of water, neglect of water basins and the considerable presence of plastic and microplastics in the oceans are equally troubling, and testify to the urgent need for interventions that can no longer be postponed. We have caused a CLIMATE EMERGENCY that gravely threatens nature and life itself, including our own.” (emphasis mine)
As the CO2 catastrophists have coagulated around the meme of “climate emergency”, and this includes the “vicar of Christ”, why should the Church of Sweden be bereft of someone of similar – if not greater – gravitas? Certainly, God doesn’t want us to kill this planet; and furthermore, the “vicar of Christ” is not considered authoritative by non-Catholics.
I can’t speak for God, but if I was He, and concerned that the “vicar of Christ” held little sway amongst Protestants (and a whole lot of other non-Catholics), I’d be busy lining up a whole bunch of small-carbon-footprint “X of Christ” personages to lead the disparate elements of my world-wide flock to Climate Truth.
Russian invasion of Ukraine? That’s a stretch. More like partition and attempted partition.
Russians and Russian speakers are the majority in Crimea and the Donbass. Russian troops and naval forces were already stationed in Crimea by mutual agreement prior to the 2014 Maiden Uprising. Crimea was annexed by Russia following a referendum that was boycotted by non-Russians. The Donbass has been embroiled in a civil war between Ukrainian unionists and Russian separatists.
Russia provides military and technical assistance to militias on its side in the civil war, the government in Kiev sends troops and artillery to suppress the rebellion. Most of the 10,000 said to be killed in the conflict are Donbass civilians of Russian ancestry.
The US appears to be solely interested in keeping the conflict going and profiting from the carnage.
Zelensky campaigned on ending the conflict and restoring relations with Russia. Exactly how he would do that, who knows? But if it happened, what would happen with all those lovely war-profits? Who would benefit? How much?
But like everything else in Ukraine, the issue is not as simple as a “Russian invasion” — which Zelensky seems to understand very well. As for Trump, he apparently doesn’t care about that. He wants dirt on the Bidens and Crowdstrike and will whatever he needs to to get it. Bugger the Ukrainians, Russians and anyone else.
Apparently, Zelensky is going ahead with his campaign promise to bring an end to the civil war in the Donbass and restore some sort of relationship with Russia.
metamars
MoonOfAlabama.org has a decent summary, overall, of the Trump/Zelensky/impeachment mess.
“On the motives behind whistleblower-gate” @ https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/09/on-the-motives-behind-whistleblower-gate.html#more
I found most interesting:
“But there is also already a casualty on the side of the plotters against Trump.
The new Ukrainian president was looking for ways to make peace with Russia and had hoped that Trump would help him. The hawks had installed Kurt Volker as U.S. Special Representative for Ukraine to prevent any such moves. Volker, a former U.S. ambassador to NATO, had been hired by then Secretary of State Rex Tillerson but had demanded no pay. Volker is the hawkish head of the McCain Institute which received donations from George Soros’ Open Society. He is also a partner in a public relation company that was hired by then President of Ukraine Poroshenko.
The whistleblower complain says that Volker visited Zelensky on July 26, one day after his call with Trump, to “provide advice to the Ukrainian leadership about how to ‘navigate’ the demands that the President had made of Mr. Zelenskyy.”
Volker was the ‘borg’ member sent to Ukraine to exercise control over the Ukrainian government. He clearly tried to sabotage Trump’s efforts to push Zelensky to investigate the Ukrainian side of the Russiagate and Biden affairs. Volker also wanted to prevent better relations with Russia.”
Hugh
So who nominated Tillerson to be Secretary of State? Donald Trump.
But Tillerson must have been really anti-Russia, right? No doubt this is why, when he was the CEO of ExxonMobil, he was awarded the Russian Order of Friendship by some guy named Putin.
And Zelensky had to be pro-Russia because well, Russia invaded Crimea and its proxy army was occupying Eastern Ukraine. Zelensky must have wanted that $390 million in military aid Trump was withholding because nothing says friendship more than a lot of Javelin missiles.
Oh, Volker obviously was sabotaging Trump’s efforts to investigate Biden when he dutifully set Giuliani up with Ukrainian contacts as per his instructions from the White House. And he had to be up to no good when he took on the impossible task of trying to “navigate” the situation that Trump’s illegal request had created.
Or I should say legal request since it is only the US Code that says it wasn’t.
So yes, Trump violated this law by soliciting an investigation against a political opponent but laws have become so quaint nowadays. Or as Vladimir Putin would no doubt add, “What is an invasion between friends?”
metamars
Moon of Alabama:
“The new Ukrainian president was looking for ways to make peace with Russia”
hugh:
“And Zelensky had to be pro-Russia because well, Russia invaded Crimea and its proxy army was occupying Eastern Ukraine.”
Russia can easily decimate Ukraine in a war, even using non-nuclear weapons. Furthermore, Nordstream-2 will allow Russia to bypass Ukraine in sending oil to Europe. It’s in Ukraine’s self-interest to have good relations with Russia, even if it despises Russia.
Likewise, it’s in the US’s interest to have good relations with Russia, even if US elites despise Russia. That’s because they can decimate us with strategic nuclear weapons. (And vice versa, of course.) Plus, we do have some mutual enemies, ya know.
Ref: “Russia’s Nord Stream II Pipeline Is Ukraine’s Worst Nightmare” @ https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2018/06/18/russias-nord-stream-ii-pipeline-is-ukraines-worst-nightmare/#5906af893524
“Or I should say legal request since it is only the US Code that says it wasn’t.”
Ha, ha, ha. From https://www.theepochtimes.com/transcript-of-trump-zelensky-call-shows-no-pressure-in-request-to-probe-biden_3094816.html
“The Justice Department “reviewed the official record of the call and determined, based on the facts and applicable law, that there was no campaign finance violation and that no further action was warranted,” the spokesperson Kerri Kupec said in statement.
According to the Wall Street Journal, the DOJ officials who were reviewing the referral did not include in their analysis of a potential campaign finance violation the suggestion that Trump withheld military aid from Ukraine as part of his pressure effort. DOJ officials, in their focus on the call record, determined that they could not identify a “thing of value” — a component of a campaign finance violation — that was discussed, Buzzfeed reported.”
“Oh, Volker obviously was sabotaging Trump’s efforts to investigate Biden when he dutifully set Giuliani up with Ukrainian contacts as per his instructions from the White House. ”
I can agree that there’s no smoking gun presented that Volker tried to sabotage Trump’s efforts. One can easily infer, though, from both his background, as well as the demonstrated mess that Ukraine continues to be, despite it’s US sponsorship, that such behavior is plausible. Also, let’s not forget Trump is surrounded by enemies and insubordination (e.g., Bolton was known to do the opposite of what Trump told him.) As for Tillerson, did he act like a friend of Russia, or beholden to Russia, when he was in office? Do tell.
Zelensky is probably not a straight shooter, either. See my next comment.
metamars
The moon of alabama article had a comment pointing to a fascinating article by Eric Zuesse
“Here is the dirt Trump wanted from Zelensky about the Bidens and why Zelensky doesn’t want to give it to him — hidden by rampant falsehoods in the press ”
@ https://thesaker.is/here-is-the-dirt-trump-wanted-from-zelensky-about-the-bidens-and-why-zelensky-doesnt-want-to-give-it-to-him-hidden-by-rampant-falsehoods-in-the-press/
Here are some quotes:
“And then, to top it off, there is the brilliant pewreport blogger, who, on 27 July 2014, headlined “USAID to Help Young Biden: The Burisma File”, and that anonymous person succinctly laid out the use of the U.S. Government to enable the families of some of its top officials to join America’s aristocracy, the billionaire class. It’s something that Trump himself is intimately involved with and exploits, but if America’s national and international police-agencies such as the FBI and CIA are trying (first with Russiagate, and now with Ukrainegate) to replace him by Pence in order to enable another friend of Obama to become installed (like Hillary was supposed to have been) as President and Commander-in-Chief, then this struggle between the agents of America’s Democratic Party billionaires versus those of its Republican Party billionaires could end up having consequences that no one is predicting.
….
But above all, he opposed Poroshenko, because Poroshenko had been forced by the main lenders to his Government to fire Kolomoysky as governor of Dnipropetrovsk and to nationalize his bankrupt PrivatBank due to Kolomoysky’s having been looting from Ukraine’s Government too much money via his bank and via his minority ownership of the Government’s gas company. Obama had wanted that money to go toward the war against Donbass, not into Kolomoysky’s pockets.
…..
Zelensky might fear that if he complies with Trump’s request, then his own major benefactor, Kolomoysky, could end up in prison somewhere; and Trump might fear that if he presses Zelensky on that (as he did not do but Democrats say he did), then the entire Deep State — not only Democratic Party billionaires, but also now Republican ones — will become Trump’s enemies, and his 2020 re-election chances will therefore go to zero. Consequently: Trump will probably abandon the matter, and the till-now-unsupported and maybe unsupportable mere assumption, that Hunter Biden’s Ukrainian benefactor was Zlochevsky instead of Kolomoysky, will continue to be asserted virtually everywhere throughout the U.S. empire, for as long a time as the matter continues to remain in the ‘news’. Of course, if that turns out to be the case, then Joe Biden will continue to be portrayed in this matter as having been a crusader against corruption in Ukraine, instead of as having been the aspiring founder of yet another billionaire American dynasty.
Basically, the new Russiagate charges to replace Trump by Pence, Ukrainegate (as those charges were presented by the CIA ‘whistleblower’ on August 12th and published on September 26th), represent all of the Democratic Party’s billionaires, and many of the Republican Party’s ones, as well. It’s the pinnacle of the Obama-versus-Trump feud, because it represents the Democratic Party’s position on what was Obama’s top international achievement — his conquest (via a coup) against Ukraine. Trump refuses to condemn Obama’s coup against Ukraine, but if he cared about the truth, he would, and the worst that could happen to him then would be that, for once in his life, he’d be fighting for truth, and not just for himself. Apparently, that’s too big a leap for him to take.”
I’ve already noted that it was “interesting” that Pence advised Trump not to declassify his conversation with Zelensky.
Also, others have noted that it was strange how Nancy Pelosi, who was resisting impeachment, flipped so quickly, even after the nothingburger of the transcript was released. (OK, there’s only an impeachment inquiry at this stage.) Dear Nancy is probably more responsive to the Democratic billionaire donor base than she is to “the squad”, so this makes more sense.
metamars
I didn’t follow this thread, but George Webb is claiming that “they” have to do the impeachment because Trump interfered with plans to extract money – to the tune of 2/3 of 450 billion dollars – from an Iran-linked repository. This has to do with Trump tearing up the JCPOA. Somehow, a covert server, which Webb calls the Burisma server, is involved.
“Sept 27th, 2019. Trump Is Right – Crowdstrike Server Is Covert Action Server – Awans Removed Drives” @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu5cXIXrloA
Webb us also claiming that, this time around, the intelligence operation against Trump is purely a CIA (plus proxies) operation:
“September 28, 2019 CIA Proxies 1st Dossier – All CIA Pros This Time” @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKCiuYXuqSY
Hugh
It is just bizarre that after Russia invaded Ukraine it is in Ukraine’s interests to have friendly relations with Russia. What part of invasion are you having trouble with? And who says Putin wants to have good relations with the West when such relations would foreclose his imperial ambitions? And seriously you are going to hold up Bill Barr, a Trump hack, as an arbiter on what is an isn’t legal in re Trump? Lordie.
metamars
Yeah, because having hostile relations with Russia has worked out so well for Ukraine.
Fortunately, Ukrainians voted for Zelensky, and not hugh.
“Ukraine’s New President Zelensky Hints At Peace With Russia” @ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2019/09/16/ukraines-new-president-zelensky-hints-at-peace-with-russia/#117058bc6a39
Your views on Putin are so foreign to me, that I don’t see much point in refuting them. You can read thesaker.is and moonofalabama.org for a serious look at Putin’s “imperial ambitions”.
Trifkovic at chroniclesmagazine.com, who I think is brilliant, has penned,
“Putin’s Collapsing Credibility (Updated) ”
https://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/blogs/srdja-trifkovic/putins-collapsing-credibility-updated/
Although deficient in many ways, Putin has lead the way in developing armaments that rival, if not exceed, the US’. The Russians can’t project imperialistic power far from home, but any country stupid enough to fight them on their territory will be in for a nasty surprise. God help them.
metamars
I thought this was satire, at first, but apparently it is real. The Church of Sweden has proclaimed Greta Thunberg a “Successor of Christ”.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/09/29/greta-thunberg-proclaimed-successor-of-christ-by-church-of-sweden/
I could be wrong (not being a theologian), but I’d bet you dollars to doughnuts that Greta Thunberg actually outranks the pope of Rome! A “vicar of Christ” is an “earthly representative of Christ”.
But (I’m thinking) a “Successor of Christ” should be able to raise people from the dead, walk on water, etc. At the very least.
Thus, Greta may raise our civilization from the soon-to-be-dead, if we ask her nicely.
Perhaps next time, instead of sailing across the Atlantic, she can walk across. If that doesn’t convince us of our climate sins, I don’t know what will.
Hugh
Apparently you don’y get the concept of invasion. Russia is the one with hostile relations toward Ukraine. It invaded the place. Ukraine did not invade Russia.
Spero Larres
Have you considered enlightening Zelensky, before he does something foolish?
False Solace
Interesting that Hugh, who is usually so skeptical of US elites, uncritically regurgitates their war machine’s storyline on Ukraine. Whatever one’s opinion on the evils of Russia, it’s obvious the US’s hands are not clean in Ukraine. This necessarily shades all Western reporting of an “invasion” — of an area that was part of Russia for hundreds of years, overwhelmingly populated by Russian-speaking Russians, and became subject to political claims by literal fascists who banned the use of the Russian language in territory they control. And of course, we must not be surprised that children of important US politicians have rushed in to secure their share of the proceeds. If the US has a pattern it’s to kick over an anthill and profit from the chaos.
Hugh
It is called irredentism. From wiki, irrendentism is any political or popular movement that seeks to claim or reclaim and occupy a land that the movement’s members consider to be a “lost” (or “unredeemed”) territory from their nation’s past. It is not a good thing.
It is the justification the Nazis used to seize Austria, carve up Czechoslovakia, and invade Poland. It is amazing how quickly people can forget their not even that distant history to give Russia a pass on its irredentism.
ponderer
We definitely have some right thinking Democrats here. So after Obama throws Ukraine into chaos by overthrowing the democratically elected government with Neo Nazis, and Ukrain invalidates Crimea’s Constitution a Referendum was held and and *only* 95% wanted to be part of Russia. An Invasion. Only a Democrat would argue a persons right to be self determination includes being raped and pillaged to enrich the Democrats to the same level as the Republicans for “fairness”.
Charlie Dozen
metamars wrote:
>> I thought this was satire, at first, but apparently it is real. The Church of Sweden has proclaimed Greta Thunberg a “Successor of Christ”. >>
The Church of Sweden of course hasn’t done any such thing, and shame on you for being such a gullible fool.
What happened was that the twitter account of the Limhamn parish made a jocular tweet that one would have to be an idiot to take seriously.
Hugh
So let’s see, when a majority of Chechens wanted out of Russia, they were crushed with Putin cheering on their suppression, but when Putin does the same thing in Crime, ponderer thinks that’s great. How’s the weather in Moscow, p, or are you just a useful stooge?
metamars
Dear Charlie Dozen,
How dare you!!
Excuse me, but the “vicar of Christ” spouts basically the same climate jazz that Greta Thunberg does.
From
MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS
POPE FRANCIS
FOR THE
WORLD DAY OF PRAYER FOR THE CARE OF CREATION
1 SEPTEMBER 2019
http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/pont-messages/2019/documents/papa-francesco_20190901_messaggio-giornata-cura-creato.html
“Deterioration has increased in recent decades: constant pollution, the continued use of fossil fuels, intensive agricultural exploitation and deforestation are causing global temperatures to rise above safe levels. The increase in the intensity and frequency of extreme weather phenomena and the desertification of the soil are causing immense hardship for the most vulnerable among us. Melting of glaciers, scarcity of water, neglect of water basins and the considerable presence of plastic and microplastics in the oceans are equally troubling, and testify to the urgent need for interventions that can no longer be postponed. We have caused a CLIMATE EMERGENCY that gravely threatens nature and life itself, including our own.” (emphasis mine)
As the CO2 catastrophists have coagulated around the meme of “climate emergency”, and this includes the “vicar of Christ”, why should the Church of Sweden be bereft of someone of similar – if not greater – gravitas? Certainly, God doesn’t want us to kill this planet; and furthermore, the “vicar of Christ” is not considered authoritative by non-Catholics.
I can’t speak for God, but if I was He, and concerned that the “vicar of Christ” held little sway amongst Protestants (and a whole lot of other non-Catholics), I’d be busy lining up a whole bunch of small-carbon-footprint “X of Christ” personages to lead the disparate elements of my world-wide flock to Climate Truth.
Ché Pasa
Russian invasion of Ukraine? That’s a stretch. More like partition and attempted partition.
Russians and Russian speakers are the majority in Crimea and the Donbass. Russian troops and naval forces were already stationed in Crimea by mutual agreement prior to the 2014 Maiden Uprising. Crimea was annexed by Russia following a referendum that was boycotted by non-Russians. The Donbass has been embroiled in a civil war between Ukrainian unionists and Russian separatists.
Russia provides military and technical assistance to militias on its side in the civil war, the government in Kiev sends troops and artillery to suppress the rebellion. Most of the 10,000 said to be killed in the conflict are Donbass civilians of Russian ancestry.
The US appears to be solely interested in keeping the conflict going and profiting from the carnage.
Zelensky campaigned on ending the conflict and restoring relations with Russia. Exactly how he would do that, who knows? But if it happened, what would happen with all those lovely war-profits? Who would benefit? How much?
But like everything else in Ukraine, the issue is not as simple as a “Russian invasion” — which Zelensky seems to understand very well. As for Trump, he apparently doesn’t care about that. He wants dirt on the Bidens and Crowdstrike and will whatever he needs to to get it. Bugger the Ukrainians, Russians and anyone else.
Charlie Dozen
metamars wrote:
>> How dare you!! <<
How dare I what?
You are clearly very passionate about the Church of Sweden. You can contact the church at info@svenskakyrkan.se with your concerns and suggestions.
Ché Pasa
Apparently, Zelensky is going ahead with his campaign promise to bring an end to the civil war in the Donbass and restore some sort of relationship with Russia.
See here, Kyiv Post, October 1, 2019.