The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Open Thread

Use to discuss topics unrelated to recent posts. (No Mangione/Syria.)

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Hell Is What Humans Deserve

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Week-end Wrap – Political Economy – December 15, 2024

18 Comments

  1. mago

    All right. No Magione /Syria.
    That means Covid and Fauci are fair game?
    Got nothing to say about that.
    The Levant in general?
    Omigod.
    Say what you like about The Rolling Stones, but they got it right with Gimme Shelter:
    Rape and murder/it’s just a shot away
    shot away shot away.
    That’s my free association Yuletide contribution.
    Cheers!

  2. Egoculexegonos

    I recently learnt about this Chinese diplomatic proposal http://en.chinadiplomacy.org.cn/pdf/The_Global_Security_Initiative_Concept_Paper.pdf

    It was publicly introduced in February 2023 but, being in the West, I never heard about it until few days ago. The poster I knew about it thru said he thought this was a try by China to become a global “primus inter pares” which, even though might be outright naive on my side, I find is sth we really need worldwide. I don’t really know in which degree this document is truly honest and/or workable but I think it is interesting enough to be shared here.

  3. mago

    Reading Chris Hedges report wherein he quoted Dostoyevsky as saying hell is the absence of love, I reflected upon Ian’s living in hell post and thought yeah, that’s right.
    Great minds think alike—a consensus of negation.
    Then there was Cat Stephens, the 70’s drop out and go Muslim dude singing Love is what we came here for/do you know what I mean/have your eyes really seen?
    Love love love/love is all you need.
    That and a lotta guns, money and lawyers.
    Depends on priorities and inclination I guess.
    Peace on earth/goodwill to men
    and women and all the rest
    and don’t forget Tiny Tim

  4. someofparts

    Climate change may be starting to make Florida less habitable. I’m learning this from a close friend who will be relocating to the foothills of the Appalachians as quickly as possible in January.

    The proximate cause for her move is the extreme hurricane season they have had this past year. A second and equally compelling reason is the dramatic increase in the cost of homeowners insurance, which is expected to double next year.

    Along with all of that, the heat itself has gotten so extreme that even the beach is no fun. The sand is so hot it burns your feet and the sea water itself is too warm to really help a person cool off. Walking the dog is tricky in such heat too.

    Meanwhile fresh water is entirely off limits and even dangerous. Apparently any body of fresh water is chock full of alligators. Turns out that gators are fast enough to catch a dog or an old lady if they think you might be a nice snack.

    Guess I’m gonna stop whining about cold weather.

  5. KT Chong

    “Climate change may be starting to make Florida less habitable.”

    … could not have happened to a more deserving people and place. Florida is full of conservative climate deniers and redtards who do not believe in climate change.

  6. someofparts

    Well, if they chose Desantis for their governor I guess I’m not surprised to learn that the citizens lean hard right. Thing is, these days, my PMC liberal friends in our oh-so-blue city are also smug, ill-informed and intolerant as well. So no matter which flavor of clueless I pick, it is still out of the question to talk with them about much besides the weather.

  7. someofparts

    It is, however, oddly comfortable to always be considered wrong by the hardcore red or blue folks. I get to enjoy the intrinsic satisfaction of actually having a clue a fair amount of the time, but without incurring the resentment that would come my way suspected that I were better informed.

    Plus, there is an element of comedy, if I can zen my way to a Mad magazine ‘What, me worry” state of mind. According to my pro-Trump friend, the US does not meddle in the internal business of other countries at all. According to my blue-no-matter-who friend, the North Koreans are fighting beside the Russians in Ukraine as we speak.

  8. marku52

    Happy holidays to all, and especially to our esteemed host!

  9. different clue

    About Florida . . . I remember decades ago when Digby still permitted comments on her blog. A commenter was from Florida and he wrote us once a comment explaining how Florida was trending mildly “Progressive” in a “New Southern” sort of way. They did elect Reuben Askew as governor, after all.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reubin_Askew

    But Florida was demographically and politically flooded out by millions of rightish-to-hard-right inmoving retirees from the cold Midwest who turned Florida into ” their own personal ashtray” in that commenter’s words. With help from the Miami Cubans, of course.

  10. Chuck Mire

    Michael Moore’s Oscar-nominated 2007 film, “SiCKO” on America’s healthcare system is now posted – free – by him on YouTube because of all of the recent headlines.

    https://youtu.be/YbEQ7acb0IE (2:03:01)

  11. different clue

    Little garden report:

    About a week ago it was still warm enough that the soil was not frozen yet. So I dug and shaped a bunch of holes for planting garlic. Then the ground froze up hard. Oh well . . .

    But then 3 days ago the ground rethawed enough to plant the garlic. So I planted anywhere from 3-6 cloves in each biggish hole. 3 big cloves per hole down to 6 smallest cloves per hole. And I covered them over. And then it froze up again late that night.
    But the garlic is planted now.

  12. bruce wilder

    Florida was demographically and politically flooded out by millions of rightish-to-hard-right inmoving retirees from the cold Midwest . . .

    It seems kind of quaint to imagine that the personal, ideological views of actual voters matter in our thoroughly manipulated political discourse. Aren’t they little more than a substrate for gaslighting? They surely do not know anything after MSNBC/Fox brain rot has run rampant for years. Why would it really matter how their arthritic knees jerked?

  13. different clue

    @Bruce Wilder,

    This commenter was writing about events of decades ago. I don’t know if Fox News or MSNBC even existed at that time.

    The commenter presented himself as a Native Floridian of several generations. He was writing about an absolute demographic flood which took place in his Florida lifetime several decades ago. He reported on what he saw happen. Florida went from “Reuben Askew” to ” Jebbie-poo Bush” in a descent down a gradient, not all at once.

    And Fox News was not in the least involved in how the Miami Cubans “got that way”.

    That is all by way of speculating on ” who did what” in Florida and which Floridians deserve what global warming will bring them and which ones don’t.

  14. mago

    Floridians are a blight on their own swampy alligator landscape as well as others such as Costa Rica and the Caribbean.
    The hot and humid climate sucks.
    The politics suck.
    The food sucks.
    The Valium Queens suck, but other than that. . . quicksand
    Ponce de Leon got stuck there seeking the fountain of youth.
    I got stuck there once.

    Anyway, those NJ drones? Military all the way. What a gloppy mess of misdirection is being smeared on that one.

    Hope different clue can cultivate and harvest some heirloom garlic. Roast cloves in parchment paper. Lots of applications.

  15. different clue

    @mago,

    Some of my garlics have heirloomy names but how heirloomy they really are is an interesting question. And I won’t know what they taste like till after harvest next July . . . if they come up which I assume at least some of them will.

    There is one garlic I got from the Shetler Produce stand at the Farmers Market. They didn’t have a specific name for it. It had hardly any garlic heat at all but it had enough sugar that I could taste a strong taste of sugar. I wonder if that sugar would make that a good roasting garlic from all the carmelization processes the sugar could go through.

  16. Curt Kastens

    The 12 Days of Christmas Implied Lyrics
    1.) Health Insurance Company CEO
    2.) Pharma CEOs
    3.) Fossil Fuel Energy CEOs
    4.) Cruise Line CEOs
    5,) Pimps
    6) Televangelists
    7.) Cryptcurrency Moguls
    8.) Bankers
    9.) MS Media Moguls
    10-) Lobbyists
    11.) (Democratic and Republican) High Level Politicians
    12.) (NATO Nations))Generals

  17. Jessica

    I’m not sure why Florida has swung so hard right. It was the ultimate swing state in 2000 (Bush-Gore) and went for Obama in 2008. Texas has conservatives migrating to it to get away from the libs but I don’t think that is so true for Florida. And the Cubans of south Florida have always been fanatic right-wingers, understandably but unfortunately and much encouraged. Weaponized immigrants as Yasha Levine would put it. Cf. Ukrainians in Canada.

  18. different clue

    @Jessica,

    The right-wingization which that old Florida commenter referred to on Digby’s comments ( back when Digby permitted comments) wasn’t talking about a ” flight of the MAGAnons from Liberal Oppression.” He was referring to millions of MidWestern retirees coming to Florida for the warmness and the gated golfing communities and all the other etceteras. And bringing their natural nastiness with them. And outvoting the prior Floridians to the point where a future Governor Askew looks unlikely. They “turned Florida into their own personal ashtray” and its all Atlantic-to-Gulf overdevelopment and Panhandle overdevelopment next and Bushes and DeSantises in Tallahassee as far as the eye can see.

    That Florida could even be a swing state just goes to show how far to the right-wing upper class the current generations of Democrats have taken the Late Great Democratic Party. Would today’s Florida Democrats nominate an Askew-type figure for Governor? Probably not.

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