Open Thread

Soon enough, the Official DOJ Seal will be changed from this to this.

B of Oz demonstrates once again why I consider coming here to be the Internet version of “slumming” nowadays. 😛

^Mor0n, please. Ian is an intellectual with a unique perspective, with a track record of correct predictions in both US & Canadian politics.

In contrast, your Dear Leader’s Dead Ender #ImWithHer Cultist blog, dedicated to the Dear Leader^2 Hillary, who in turn worships her DearLeader oligarchy owners (Wall $treet, MIC, etc).

It is obvious which of the 2 blogs are the “slums”.

—

BTW, Hillary 2016: “MedicareForAll will never, ever happen!” IBW cosigning this, claiming that MedicareForAll supporters are equivalent to right-wing fascists because “Horsehoe Theory”, & that IBW (Stats 101) is as anti-science as Trump (climatology) retorting to the fact that 60% of USians support MedicareForAll with “I don’t believe in polls”.

2017-May, a majority of House Ds now cosponsor the HR676 MedicareForAll bill.

—

Hillary & IBW in 1963: “equal Civil Rights & Voting Rights for all Americans will never, ever happen!”

Hillary & IBW in 1919: “womens’ Voting Rights will never, ever happen!”

etc

This is all super-unsurprising. BOO reveals what it’s about: the appearance of targeting blacks, even if the sword is likely to start cutting both ways.

It used to be that if someone asked “What does a leader do and how are the effective?” I could respond with something like “A leader doesn’t have to know everything but they do have to surround themselves with effective people who really know their information because the leader needs to consolidate that information into a cohesive plan.”

But I can’t give that response anymore (or anything similar to it) because it is no longer descriptive. The modern leader I encounter would rather pass the entire leadership process (forming plans from quality information in order to take action) down the chain of command to the lowest level possible. These modern leaders prefer “strategic ignorance” (plausible deniability) to receiving information. And lastly, these modern leaders rarely plans because they have little to no skin in the game.

I no longer know how to best describe the modern leaders I encounter because they seem to sabotage and spread chaos. I really don’t know how things have gotten so bad but quality leadership seems to be fading away.

ProNewerDeal,

???

Bill was clearly criticizing the commenter above him, not Ian.

NR: PND is a good soul, but his passion gets the better of his reason quite often.

IW is what PND says he is, but, for reasons which escape me, he has allowed his blog to become a haven for fascists, at ever-mounting expense to his reputation. This is why I have come to think of visiting here as “slumming”.

Comey obviously needed to be fired, and Trump should be impeached for firing him. Can anyone square this circle? What’s more, it’s doubtful that would even crack the top 10 craziest things you’re now required to believe.

What we are seeing is factional infighting within the ruling classes. Or to put it more simply there are a lot of black hats going at it at the moment but this does not imply any good will come out of it for the rest of us.

I agree with Ian about Comey. He was a bad choice when Obama chose him to head the FBI four years ago. Comey is an authoritarian who has continued and expanded the FBI’s use of warrantless searches. There is this argument that restrictions on law enforcement should be loosened so that they can go out and catch the bad guys. This is a fallacy. What it, in fact, does is create a culture of impunity and ends up in sloppy police work. It is precisely keeping a tight leash on law enforcement and forcing them to behave according to the highest standards that result in professional, responsible, and effective policing.

After 9/11, the focus of the FBI changed from crime to terrorism. It was reasonably competent at combatting crime, but it has been mostly a waste on terrorism. While Comey did not begin this trend, he certainly has perpetuated it.

None of this excuses the total botch of Trump’s firing of him. Watching the Trump Administration, if you can qualify anything so disorganized as an Administration, is a lot like watching an endless series of Rashomons. First, you get the news release and/or twitter version of the story. Then you get the Trump minions and Press Secretary version of it. Then you get the outside press view of it that comes out in bits and pieces. Then you get the Donald’s second version, followed by a more detailed and cohesive timeline provided by the press.

The press is another black hat in this. In criticism of Trump, it actually does a reasonable job, but as soon as Trump adheres to or capitulates to the Washington Consensus, it goes all braindead again, praising him as finally responsible and adult, etc.

Meanwhile Trump seems bent on laying the groundwork for his own impeachment and doing it in record time. As I keep saying, it’s not the crime but the coverup. So after firing Comey, and having his own version of events contradicted, he tried to intimidate Comey into silence. This is all going south fast. And as usual, it is all self-inflicted. Trump is completely incapable of STFU, letting anything go, minimizing his losses, and moving on. I mean the guy is still trying to contest that he lost the popular vote.

Anyway for those interested, here is the applicable bit of 18 U.S. Code § 1512 – Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant:

(b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to—

(1) influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person
in an official proceeding;
(2) cause or induce any person to—
(A) withhold testimony, or withhold a record, document, or other object, from an official proceeding;
(B) alter, destroy, mutilate, or conceal an object with intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding;
(C ) evade legal process summoning that person to appear as a witness, or to produce a record, document, or other object, in an official proceeding; or
(D) be absent from an official proceeding to which such person has been summoned by legal process; or
(3) hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation [1] supervised release,,[1] parole, or release pending judicial proceedings;
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
(c ) Whoever corruptly—
(1) alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; or
(2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,

Sorry, this would be clearer but I can’t format or indent it. Basically, b is the main heading, 1 is the subheading, and A is the sub subheading.
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
(d) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any person from—
(1) attending or testifying in an official proceeding;
(2) reporting to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense or a violation of conditions of probation 1 supervised release,,1 parole, or release pending judicial proceedings;
(3) arresting or seeking the arrest of another person in connection with a Federal offense; or
(4) causing a criminal prosecution, or a parole or probation revocation proceeding, to be sought or instituted, or assisting in such prosecution or proceeding;
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 3 years, or both.
(e) In a prosecution for an offense under this section, it is an affirmative defense, as to which the defendant has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence, that the conduct consisted solely of lawful conduct and that the defendant’s sole intention was to encourage, induce, or cause the other person to testify truthfully.
(f) For the purposes of this section—
(1) an official proceeding need not be pending or about to be instituted at the time of the offense; and
(2) the testimony, or the record, document, or other object need not be admissible in evidence or free of a claim of privilege.

It’s good to see Ian resisting the forces of censorship especially seeing who has appointed himself gatekeeper. The real ugly and racist rants are rare here and are quickly condemned and the word fascist has about as much meaning as progressive does today.

When the so called progressives are more than supporting a witch-hunt, backed a coup and continue to undermine a president and the so called fascists are defending the nation’s democratic institutions, we live in strange days.

One of the reasons I come here (aside from the wisdom if our host, obviously) is that it is a rare place where you find people expressing opinions all over the map. If IBW needs a safe space, there’s an entire internet of echo chambers out there to choose from.

Closer to home, it is interesting to see the changes in the recent B.C. election. What was once a geographically interspersed mix of left and right leaning ridings seems to be converging partly towards an urban/coastal vs rural/interior split, as we have seen in many other places around the world.

On the left (N.D.P.) side, the coalition of blue collar union workers and urban minorities/progressives is losing seats in rural areas to the right wing while making gains in urban areas, much as the Democrats have been doing in the U.S.. On the right, the ‘Liberal’ (actually right wing) alliance of anti-government rural types, wealthy city folks and Chinese immigrants held for another election, but it seems that a lot of the city ridings are starting to peel away. I wonder how stable this coalition is long term. At some point when the rural ridings start doing things like electing Trump as leader or voting for Brexit, they cease being useful to the rich or acceptable to the Chinese (speculating), but remain useful to nationalist types such as Theresa May.

The Liberals in B.C. have long worked hard and mostly successfully to suppress the emergence of a right wing ‘wild rose’ type party to split the right wing vote, but I wonder if that will keep working if and when they are defeated in an election.

Going back to the urban/rural split, I think about the town I grew up in and compare my parent’s generation who settled there and their children (my generation) who seem to have been through ‘the great sort’ with strivier types all gone away and more traditionally minded people all remaining behind. Combined with high immigration to the big urban areas and little or none to small towns and it really starts to create a big divide in the composition of the different areas.

Donald J. Trump, Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, H.R. Clinton, Michael Pence, et al. prove that you can judge a book by its cover!
I am frightened by what truly lurks under their ‘covers’ because what they are showing us, and have been for years, is dangerous to solving problems in a well thought out, rational, and just way that is for the good of all. The blatant disregard that they have for the U.S. Constitution, while paying ‘lip service’, is despicable. Their agendas are not good public policy; those are nothing more than masquerade for their delusional, selfish, and warped ideologies.

Although a concept of visual diagnosis to see a person’s mental and physical health based on Oriental (now p.c. ‘Asian’ by some I suppose) Diagnosis presented by Mr. Kushi in 1979 is readily dismissed by most Western thought on the subject; the visual and behavioral messages of those people mentioned above have sent me to revisit this version of diagnosis for insight into the troubles that these sick human beings are heaping upon this country and the world.

I thought I would clean up and reboot the law: 18 U.S. Code § 1512 – Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant, I cited above to make it more readable. Hope this helps.

(b) Whoever knowingly uses intimidation, threatens, or corruptly persuades another person, or attempts to do so, or engages in misleading conduct toward another person, with intent to influence, delay, or prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding; cause or induce any person to withhold testimony, or hinder, delay, or prevent the communication to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States of information relating to the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

(c ) Whoever corruptly obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

(d) Whoever intentionally harasses another person and thereby hinders, delays, prevents, or dissuades any person from attending or testifying in an official proceeding; reporting to a law enforcement officer or judge of the United States the commission or possible commission of a Federal offense; or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 3 years, or both.

(e) In a prosecution for an offense under this section, it is an affirmative defense, as to which the defendant has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence, that the conduct consisted solely of lawful conduct and that the defendant’s sole intention was to encourage, induce, or cause the other person to testify truthfully.

(f) For the purposes of this section an official proceeding need not be pending or about to be instituted at the time of the offense; and the testimony, or the record, document, or other object need not be admissible in evidence or free of a claim of privilege.

@Peter

When the so called progressives are more than supporting a witch-hunt, backed a coup and continue to undermine a president and the so called fascists are defending the nation’s democratic institutions

Exactly what democratic institutions are the ‘so-called fascists’ defending? Is appointing Kris Kobach to suppress voters being able to cast a ballot “democracy”? Or is it changing the First Amendment to make it easier for a Prez to sue journalists who write stories that make him (or her) sad an integral part of democracy? Or is it a Prez being able to shut down any investigation of himself that makes him sad or look bad “democracy”?

Trump has revealed himself to be just another rich business dude who thinks just because he’s rich in a capitalist system that almost never allows the rich to fail, no matter how incompetent they are, that he’s something special. Many years ago, as a college student, one of the jobs I had involved serving our local ‘notables’, and I found them to be among the stupidest, most unimaginative, and boorish people I had ever met. Te more I see of Trump, the more I am reminded of them.

Like many other business dictators “leaders” who are used to barking orders and abusing groveling underlings, he is out of his depth in a system where he has to bring along people who are truly independent. The reason why his followers think he’s competent is due to the slanted reporting of our news media, which routinely finds misconduct and inefficiency and screwups in public, open, institutions while even worse misconduct, inefficiency, and outright fuckups almost never exposed in the corporate or business world (or in the US military or security state). That’s why many Americans wrongly think “business = efficient” and/or “military = efficient” while “domestic government = inefficient”. The simple truth is the reverse is much more nearly true, as the best way to correct inefficiency and misconduct is to expose it. People in the 1930s likewise thought “fascism makes the trains run on time” while “democracy is hopelessly inefficient” until fascism was defeated and after 1945 we were able to go through their records and see how insanely inefficient and screwed up their war economies were. I have worked at many business, large and small, throughout my life and trust me, the screwups and stupidity I have witnessed is at least as great if not more than what I have ever read about any domestic governmental misconduct.

There’s another bias at work why people support rich assholes like Trump–maybe uniquely American, or uniquely Western. My mom used to have a sign that said “If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?”—inferring that there is an equivalence between wealth and smarts. Any comparison of truly acknowledged smart people, living and dead, versus their rich contemporariness shows that’s not true. Rich people may be rich because they have a talent for accumulating wealth and a vision for a business, but more often they either started life rich (like Trump! Some have calculated that Trump would have been even wealthier than now if he had just kept his inherited wealth in the markets and played golf all the time) or are heartless crooks. Just look at this blog–Ian’s a heckuva lot smarter and more perceptive than the vast majority of pols, pundits, and our Prez., but he’s living hand-to-mouth. Yet a coworker of mine (a Trump supporter) when I point out something to her that Ian writes that she disagrees with she uses Ian’s lack of wealth to “rebut” his argument.

@Hugh

If you’re going to carry water for these feeble Trump attackers you need a bucket with fewer holes. I don’t think the former holder of J Edgar Hoover’s position can be described as a witness, victim or an informant. All Trump did was warn Comey to not spread rumors or lie about these issues which was good advice.

RC, if it’s revolution, organizations like Represent.Us, presents many potential allies and enablers (I personally watch South Dakota).

I think your repeating revolt talk around here is limiting yourself. You claim to have knowledge of human psychology. You would then be aware of this:

https://www.careerplanner.com/MB2/TypeInPopulation.cfm
(I’m sure there are more credible stats, but this is a handy chart)

You will have noticed that those types forming over 50% of the general population are notorious for being traditional thinkers (lemmings). The people that frequent here (mostly, skeptical free thinkers), would test nearest the bottom, forming a far smaller percentage of the general population. (supported by many political blog posts and comments related to this subject).

@Stew

How low can you go beyond defending the lying Clintonite media from being held liable for the damage their lies cause. Witch-hunting, spreading rumors and lies is not defending the first amendment, it’s using it for an anti-democratic agenda.

I was referring to what people are doing outside of the government at blogs where the division is clear with one group set on a mindless destructive agenda while others warn that this is dangerous self-centered behavior.

It will be interesting in a few years to compare the records of Tillerson and Sessions with those of Clinton and Holder, the good the bad and the ugly.

At some point, probably when founders no longer ran their own companies, professional managers took over. Then the business schools were established. “Management” ceased to be a function and became a status. As Charles I of England said shortly before his beheading, “a subject and a sovereign are clean different things.” Your managers believe that workers and managers are clean different things, and they have no interest in or responsibility for doing anything to make the organization effective. Their sole interest is their position within the hierarchy.

Same with “leaders”.

If IBW needs a safe space, there’s an entire internet of echo chambers out there to choose from.

SG, it’s not my blog, so it’s not my reputation at risk.

Peter

How low can you go beyond defending the lying Clintonite media from being held liable for the damage their lies cause. Witch-hunting, spreading rumors and lies is not defending the first amendment, it’s using it for an anti-democratic agenda.

I’m not here to defend the Clintons, or Obama for that matter, but as Trump himself and all his supporters plus the right-wing noise machine routinely tell lies (I mean, Obama was not born in the US, for starters). Witch-hunting? Vince Foster? Pizzagate? Whitewater? (Shall we bring up Kenneth Starr’s barbaric treatment of the McDougals, which includes denying medical treatment to Jim McDougal while he was suffering prostate cancer in prison?). Obama covertly a member of the Muslim brotherhood? That Obama took 34 warships with him to India on a personal vacation to stay at the Taj Mahal for $200 a day?? Me, I’m wonder how I missed the Obama’s America dystopia predicted by D’Souza in 2012.

Since I see no evidence the Right wants to stop lying, the only reason why they would then ponder tweaking the First Amendment to allow suits is just another way to muzzle critics while allowing *their* lying continues unabated. They are obviously anticipating a change in the law so that only will be used against others, not themselves.

I was referring to what people are doing outside of the government at blogs where the division is clear with one group set on a mindless destructive agenda while others warn that this is dangerous self-centered behavior.

No, no no. What people say in blogs outside of government IS part of democracy, pure and simple, be it truth or lies. The First Amendment has been interpreted to make it very hard to prosecute someone for libel in the political arena, almost impossible unless one can prove that the lie was deliberate and done with malicious intent. It’s the very reason I am not ‘het up about “Russia!” because, when it comes down to it, whatever “fake news” the Russians were posting in favor of Trump by paid trolls was no different than the fake news the Clinton camp spread about Sanders.

Now it’s Trump’s turn. If he can’t take the heat, as Truman says, he should get out of the kitchen.

@ Willy

You seem to have confused yourself into thinking my goal is to have the most un-smart people agree with me.

Totally wrong, and a good indication that you don’t read my stuff very carefully.

@Peter

The Birther meme was hilarious entertainment that almost no one believed and it was started by a Clintonite. It burned brightly on the fringe but had no MSM support or support from any other of the chattering classes.

The Birther Movement “nobody believes”? 41 % of Republicans believe it!!

http://www.mediaite.com/online/new-poll-shows-that-41-of-republicans-still-dont-think-obama-was-born-in-the-u-s/

And among Trump supporters, 61 % believe he was born in another country, and 66 % believed he was a Muslim. Trump himself made his name pedaling this crap.

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/08/trump-supporters-think-obama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country.html

The witch-hunt aimed at Trump and his team has almost all of the news and opinion mediums pumping out this rot and pernicious lies in concert.

No one forced Trump to support a stinking piece of crap for of a health care bill that will kill or bankrupt his core supporters. He could have well sat back, watched the Ryancare bill crash and burn, and started anew. No one forced him to betray his campaign promises not to gut Medicaid. No one forced him to appoint alligators from the swamp to his cabinet who advise him to betray all his core promises to his supporters and govern pretty much like the people they *didn’t choose*, Cruz and/or Jeb! No one is forcing him to act exactly like he’s guilty by firing investigators (not just Comey) who dare get close to looking into his holdings. No one is forcing him not to release his taxes as if he’s got something to hide.

You seem to think the “Clintonite” media has some magical unicorn power to bring Trump down, although despite the power you think it has it couldn’t get ‘the Red Queen’ elected. No, no no, all of Trump’s problem start in his mirror. If he had actually tried to pass a good health care plan like he promised, something closer to single payer (which he used to support) or at least the public option, if Prez Trump actually governed like candidate Trump pre-Pence, then he could have been quite popular despite anything the Clinton camp said. The fact his popularity is declining is all due to unnecessary, self-inflicted wounds by betraying his constituency and governing like any ordinary rightwing Republican.

RC, good luck with your ivory tower revolution.

@ Fred

Congratulations, you are the Asshole of the Day. 🙂

@Stew

The minority of people who believed in the Birther story saw something odd about Obama and this was their only way to express their feelings. There was something strange, alien and phony about this unknown messiah. It took very little time for Obama to show everyone he was what these people feared.

Trump’s campaign promise was to dismantle Obama’s health insurance plan and that’s what is happening. Trying to produce something ‘better’ may be impossible because republicans aren’t inclined to tax, penalize and spend other peoples money on these kind of programs.

The MSM may be losing viewers and they aren’t trusted but they still reach millions of people nightly. What they and the snowflakes are doing isn’t magic. The Russian hacking fiasco is much like other witch-hunts used by the Nazis and here during the HUAC fiasco. With their control of the media, polls and pundits they try to create the appearance of Trump voters turning on him and use that false narrative to feed their delusion of bringing republican congress critters into their madness.

Trump only has a few tools to keep the snowflakes turning themselves inside out and he’s using them to best advantage. His tax returns are a dependable frustration that keeps gnawing at the snowflakes so why throw it away. The whining pleas for a special prosecutor and its refusal is another thorn in the losers side even though there is nothing to prosecute.

“you offer nothing of value”

You may want to fix your reading glasses. What do you have against a good and decent organization full of potential allies, for your own cause?

Should those suffering from dementia be allowed to supervise? A debate for another time.

Sigh. Once again, you prove why somebody would vote for “a guy whose thoughts are often just six fireflies beeping randomly in a jar”. Not the best start for earning revolutionary street cred.