The Basis Of All Law

Humans evolved and created culture within family, clans and tribes. Love, honor, and duty are in our genes and society. The human hierarchy is family, clan, gangs, cartels, states and nations. These groups trigger instinctive behavior in humans that, once upon a time, aided survival and reproduction. There never has been anything legal about warfare. Crimes and inhuman behavior are part and parcel of it. Thus, the rise of propaganda. Up to WWII and the invention of nuclear weapons, mass conscripted armies fought Europe’s wars. Four million Axis troops took part in Operation Barbarossa – the 1941 Russia invasion. After WWI the elite who were still around had to placate the masses to survive. But, after Vietnam War and the revolt of the US Army, nations were superseded by free trade corporate/states. There are no state/national drafted militias left. The people were trashed. Americans are too sick and obese to support a conscription army; only around 20% of the young are fit to serve.

The proxy WWIII in Ukraine is being fought by mercenaries except for the Ukrainians defending their homes and families and some conscript Russians.

The real danger is that the current global capitalist system that includes China has no feedback from the people to the rulers. The reigning death cult believes that there is no such thing as society – that only money and markets have value. Pandemics, Wars and Famines create corporate profits. Their lies, ignorance, incompetence and emotional triggers have overcome rational thought. WWIII is being fought the same as WWI. The the outcome will be the same, destroyed empires and revolt, unless the loser uses tactical nuclear weapons to avoid defeat.

“There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” ― John Adams 1826

This post talks mainly about use of the sword. It would be fun for Ian to discuss how control via debt works.

“Control by debt is downstream from control via sword. You use the sword to get initial control, you use debt to turn your new subjects into slaves.”

Which brings us right back to the swords, as the only true way to control slaves, chattel or debt, is by the sword.

The Founding Fathers knew this, ergo the rights to militias, etc.

The current “Masters of the Universe” are going to have to relearn this lesson the hard way, as, once their debt slaves realize they literally have nothing to lose, they will lose it.

This will happen shortly after some bean counter thinks they can earn a smidge more profit by cutting back on the propaganda, the bread and circuses, or the soma… Though not a moment before.

Rulers (and lawyers) constantly argue that law exists to prevent violence or to limit it to that committed by the State.

Without law, anyone and everyone is free to commit violence against others when and how they see fit. All against all, etc.

Yet I think even a cursory overview would show that the use of violence in so-called primitive societies (those without codified law, let’s say) is strictly limited and rare. So called civilized societies (with elaborate law codes) tend toward greater levels of violence and more routine use of violence — and not just by the State.

The argument can be made that more pervasive violence in civilized societies is due in large part to the greater complexity, competition, confusion, stress and struggle in those societies. Could be.

But whatever the purpose of codified law, I don’t see it as preventing that much violence within societies or between them.

Hi, all. Nice start to this thread, so some quick responses– VVet, you are completely correct as far as I can see. The only thing surprising about the Neoliberal (Ayn Rand, Milty Friedman & Alan Greenspan e.g.) cult’s complete takeover of the ruling class (starting, somewhat ironically with “reformist” Carter) is the open declaration that Public (interest, resources etc.) no longer exists, the Owners get everything and the plebes get scraps, via Thatcher’s “TINA,” “There is no Alternative,” etc. The declaration is shocking enough, that 40 years later there is no remaining “Left” to contest it is what should be truly shocking. . . One of my old lefty pals (parents were Quakers & pacifists) rebelled against his upbringing in his late 20s, early 30s by first becoming a Randian goofball, later on he added overt racist “Alt Right” (barely hidden Nazi, he did brag to me once earlier about his genome being like 95% German!) This guy was not stupid and when I reminded him that the word Republic is from Latin, “res publica”, the public thing, that even a society as cruel & dominating as Rome recognized collective rights, . . . well, I might as well have been speaking Esperanto to the wall!! No attempt to argue against me or admit my point. My friend is not really wealthy (though did inherit a bit when his parents passed) and at the time he became batshit right-wing extreme he was actually working as an aide to Oakland mayor Jerry Brown! (Jerry did not bring him along for the ride when he moved up to Governor). I also agree with Mago, & no you are not being “Orientalist”, I think Anglo-Saxon culture in particular does share exactly the literalism you refer to & that’s at the core of the problem. Occasionally, that rigidity has unforeseen consequences, e.g. though the Brits jailed and chemically castrated queer men for being “deviant”, in the Victorian era Lesbians were not subject to any penal discipline, since “neither one has a prick”, they couldn’t “penetrate” one another (by a strict dictionary definition) so consensual women-women relations were frequent and in some cases open . . . As to Preston’s comment on debt, yes, fairly clear even from a conservative (with some principles) such as Adams 1. I have been watching a fair # of Michael Hudson videos lately (as the unipolar US dominance starts to shatter) & he makes the obvious point that Money is entirely based on (government decreed & recognized) debt. Of course as the Neolib Globalist order congealed & corporations took full control of the US political elites & State Org, we now have select Rentier monopolist domination– e.g., Health “Care”, sic; Insurance; property ownership or rent etc., privatized education to create unpayable debt peonage among the young, etc. The System is consuming the poorest and most vulnerable first but of course will consume everything incl. what remaining clean, wild Nature remains. We are well and truly f–cked as “Everybody Knows” (Thank you Leonard Cohen). When I was young (2nd wave Punk, 1982) we still had the guts to take to the streets and resist, even vandalize property etc., I don’t see much of that now, the few feints toward “revolution” I see (if any, I cannot use the word “Resistance” after Libs soiled it whining about Trump) seems to be people quitting work, dumpster diving, or overdosing, just breaking OUT of society. So I have no clear portrait of what is coming except what a friend of mine regularly reminds me, “It has to get a lot worse before it will get better!”

Control by debt is downstream from control via sword. You use the sword to get initial control, you use debt to turn your new subjects into slaves.

The sword used to instill debt as a belief system. The sword used to reinforce that belief system via the threat of the sword.

But that’s the easy part. The fun began and continues hereafter with the soft power, i.e. altering/creating entire cultural/societal belief systems, including down to the most intimate level of a how a person feels about herself, via control of the primary mechanisms that create and sustain mental imagery and narrative in the imagination.

This is “the secret.” It’s setting the narrative you live under, then directing it via control of your personal schema.

Go look up the word “schema” right now. I used it for a reason. And I would add that it ties into recent discussions in the comments surrounding the DSM, though that’s a subject for another day.

And always remember we are talking about what is being done at the broad population level. What has been and continues to be done to human beings in various “laboratory settings” is beyond the scope of this comment, and probably beyond the scope of most persons’ sanity.

You can use the sword all you want, but your goals won’t be met if you don’t instill and continually reinforce in people both the new belief system you want them to follow while simultaneously removing as much memory and evidence of their previous belief system as possible.

Another way of putting this is that you are a slave, first and foremost, to your own beliefs – to the degree that you yourself allow yourself to be.

That’s the secret.

Walter Lippmann:

“A war is only lost when one’s own territory is occupied by the enemy, the leading class of the defeated people are convicted in war crime trials, and the defeated are subject to a re-education process. An obvious means of that is to implant the victor’s view into the minds of the defeated. It’s of decisive importance to transfer the “moral categories” of the victor’s wartime propaganda into the consciousness of the defeated. Only when wartime propaganda has found its way into the history books of the defeated and is believed by succeeding generations – only then the re-education can be seen as successful.”

When Lippmann says, “It’s of decisive importance to transfer the ‘moral categories’ of the victor’s wartime propaganda into the consciousness of the defeated” he’s talking about the soft power that began well before the swords began clashing and, just as important – as he is exhorting his elite contemporaries to understand and carry out – it must be continually shaped and reinforced in their interests going forward.

sorry for fucking up that blockquote™ though I confess, I rather like how the result flows,

gotta run

The Law, as applied to the January 6 protesters. Nasty.

https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/lynching-the-deplorables?r=iwsdw&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post

“The U.S. legal system has a very sordid history. It was used to enforce segregation and legitimize the reign of terror against Black people. It was the hammer that broke the back of militant union movements. It persecuted radicals and reformers in the name of anti-communism. After 9/11, it relentlessly went after Muslim leaders and activists with Special Administrative Measures (SAMs). SAMs, established by the Clinton administration, originally only applied to people who ordered murders from prison or were convicted of mass murder, but are now used to isolate all manner of detainees before and during trial. They severely restrict a prisoner’s communication with the outside world; prohibiting calls, letters and visits with anyone except attorneys and sharply limit contact with family members.”

violent men are easily controlled by status and, to use online gaming terms, the promise of phat lewtz.

hence the knightships of olde tymes, and the comfortable and quite early retirement schemes of police, military etc.: hot armor and a fancy horse, some land and droit de seigneur. modern equivalents being pretty obvious.

these things are the same things that street drug dealers and pimps vie, and sometimes die for, although their goals are usually written for the short rather than long term (long term is usually jail or dead).

i find it interesting that a priestly class without fail pops up around the head violent man to legitimize his status and lewtz, enforcing and regulating the system that will continue to funnel the surplus to him and thus, to themselves and rationalizing and maintaining the ideology. these people are what we now call the PMC.

in our system, the priestly class (managers, politicians) are themselves controlled by another class—the capitalist/rentier owners who prefer to stay hidden and issue their proclamations through one J. Powell, esq. and his fellow economistical theologians.

as for “laws”, that’s a morass. people who believe that we are a nation of laws and not of men don’t ever factor in that it is the men that make, change and administer the laws according to their desires and it was always so. any side benefit we all get from following “the rules” is almost a fluke. the Constitution is not a set of tablets from the mountain, but a set of rules that a bunch of hopped up landed gentry used to keep their fellows in check and the power in their “wise” hands so they could continue to make money and own everything important.

i was watching another master class on the revolutionary period, and the historian was trying to illuminate what the common citizenry had to endure–they were lured with the propaganda of liberation and yet most of them were totally destitute after the war, with the government (the landed gentry and investment bankers of their day) failing to give them any compensation for their losses, all while they STILL couldn’t vote. if they did get anything, it was a pittance many decades after they had lost nearly everything.

hence why any future liberators are to be viewed with suspicion. i had a seminar on this once, and we used as text someone’s master thesis that pointed out that those who are the highest in status, in agitating for “change”, somehow are usually the only ones to really benefit from that change even though they promise that the change will be revolutionary and address their somewhat similar fellows’ plight. and these are usually the same people who are most similar in many ways (except the current point of difference) to the ruling hierarchy and already have almost all of the rights that the lower orders are agitating for. so these ideological “revolutionaries” are just using the common citizens’ dissatisfaction to get their own way and the lower orders barely benefit at all after “everything has been changed”. i think that show on the revolutionary period and most other schisms like that proves the point of this person’s thesis quite well.

as for “violent men”, nearly all men (and probably most women) are and can be violent if properly motivated. i find such distinctions between the violent and the nonviolent almost nonexistent (please note: i grew up watching violence firsthand, mano a mano between people on the regular). just because that is not most people’s preferred mode of action doesn’t mean they can’t call it up whenever. if humans were not this malleable, military training en masse would not even be possible. they can turn almost anyone except the sainted pacifists who would die for their beliefs into nearly remorseless killers.

if you are talking about “psychopaths”, or people who deprive much pleasure from the abuse, degradation and death of others, well…the only way to truly control them is to isolate them from the rest of us.

(as an aside—
people keep referring to the DSM around here. my knowledge of that text is that it was an halfassed attempt for the psych profession to seem “scientific”, ie “evidence based treatment”, and to get paid. most of it is about billing for something specific instead of writing to the insurance company that “Jake has bad feelings towards his parents because of how they raised him, so we need to meet once a week for the next few months to talk”. that people are constantly referencing this bastardization and product of political and economic wrangling is amazing, but our need to medicalize and pathologize and fit each other into types in order to feel superior knows no bounds, else the MBTI, astrological signs and referencing someone’s “IQ” would not be so prevalent. there are quite a few psychs who don’t even like to settle on a diagnosis and only do so because they are pressed by the insurance industry, and often after asking the patient what they want to be written down as! so much for the vaunted DSM, another bible written by men for their own ends and not all of them good ones.)

Trinity, I have so much I’ve wanted to “get into” with you (and everyone) vis-a-vis indigenous cultures. I find it hard to write about. It’s easier, it seems, to come at it from a place of what we’ve lost. For example, for all its advances, there is an incredible regression in going from a strictly or primarily oral culture to a largely written one. i know this with the proverbial “every fiber of my being” but it’s very difficult to express in writing. And that is simply by virtue of it being so in the first place. Oh the irony!

There are profound differences between listening to someone tell a story versus reading that same story in a book versus watching that story unfold on a screen.

Reading allows the greatest latitude and creativity, because we are really the narrator, even as we read the author’s words. And we are creating a visual in our head that is every bit as much our own as the author’s words are hers. The same holds true for listening to oral stories, though things manifest differently because they’re ususally told in groups, while reading is really a solo activity, even when done in the midst of others. Unless…

you’re reading a book out loud to a group, or taking turns passing the book along and reading passages out loud. This is both the least fun and the least intellectually/creatively “productive” for me. I actually read well out loud, and people seem to enjoy listening to my voice, but personally I am not retaining what I’m reading, and I’m unable to really think about it.

The differences in audio and video alone are absolutely extraordinary. And the difference in going to see a movie versus televisions in everyone’s homes is what allegedly led renowned-in-his-field advertising executive Jerry Mander to write his “Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television” to be followed by “In the Absence of the Sacred: The Failure of Technology and the Survival of the Indian Nations.”

multitude of poors: For the proverbial love of the god I don’t believe in: Get the formatting right!

I’m kidding, of course. I love your flow. Although I must say, maybe “gotta run” is my problem? I’m reminded of that Seinfeld episode where the Russian novelist (channeling Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn?!) says to Elaine, “Ah yes, the Americans with their sneakers…always running!”

If I grew up in the Soviet Union I wouldn’t have had a pair of parachute pants in the fifth grade nor had the opportunity to listen to Run DMC sing:

Calvin Klein’s no friend of mine
Don’t want nobody’s name on my behind
Lee on my legs, Adidas on my feet
D by my side and Jay with the beat

At least The Who had the honesty to call their album “The Who Sell Out”

Growing up in the Soviet Union, I imagine I’d just be looking eagerly westward everyday, knowing in my literally starving heart that your venerable Ronald Reagan will get that wall down somehow, some way.

Then I can catch an already over-the-hill William Joel singing about all the heroin Captain jack indulged in after Allentown went to hell due to offshoring. Christie Brinkley left for greener pastures after she realized Joel, despite all his money, was no Chevy Chase on his way to Wally World.

Hello john Candy and no, they don’t close Florida.

McDonalds anyone?

Change the goddamn narrative. For the love of the god I may have to start believing in.

Also, I thought anon y’mouse’ comment was excellent. I agree that the generic label “violent men” (or women) doesn’t ultimately help. Unless we begin to add lots of nuance, but we can only add so much without looking to “trim the fat” once again so we can talk about it in an attempt at understanding.

Poets and songwriters “trim the fat” for better understanding. Less words point to larger truths. Or, life’s simple truisms are more profound and less frightening than our lonely minds are often able to comprehend.

A couple quotes relevant to things we’re discussing:

“Healthy nationalism might be something like a kind of land-soul-feeling, which all pre-modern peoples have felt. It is a kind of psychic bond with one’s locale that doesn’t preclude generosity of spirit toward the “Other”. Patriotism (sense of duty) seems to have more in common with hysteria than love of place and tribe. This hysteria, I believe, originates from the essential hollowness of the “American” psyche and culture, a hollowness borne from the extirpation of the indigenous people coupled with the celebration of rootlessness. By refusing to respect and absorb aspects of the vanquished peoples ways Americans, those of European origin at any rate, have cut themselves off from a source of vitality and groundedness, of rightful ownership of place. Lacking this sense of rightful ownership they lack a solid basis of solidarity with other occupants of the land, especially those who look different and hail from other homelands. Hence, they go around with a perpetual insecurity which is inflamed by the slightest whiff of threat.”

‘Being an intellectual creates a lot of questions and no answers. You can fill your life up with ideas and still go home lonely. All you really have that really matters are feelings. That’s what music is to me.’ -Janis Joplin

Gotta…listen to some tunes.

i find such distinctions between the violent and the nonviolent almost nonexistent … if humans were not this malleable, military training en masse would not even be possible. they can turn almost anyone except the sainted pacifists who would die for their beliefs into nearly remorseless killers.

Somewhat true, to a degree. What Viking woulda thunk that their descendants would today, be more into wearing floppy hats and winter sports hobbies than raping and pillaging defenseless villagers?

But then I did the office work gig economy thing for over 20 years, with jobs ranging from 4 to 36 months duration in a business which was very ex-military friendly. I worked alongside many vets, seeing them every single day, most for over a year.

The most cowardly backstabber I knew was an ex-Marine. One of the most undisciplined judges of character was an ex-Ranger. The most gentle of souls had once been a Huey door gunner. But then I also knew ex-marines, special forces and Vietnam vets who were closer to the Hollywood stereotypes. Although most were different.

Out of all of them, I’d judge the most “remorseless killer” to have been the guy who claimed to be a former US Marines White House honor guard. Thanks to my gut, (and with a bit of help from MBTI which drove me to do some homework) I found out he’d lied. He’d actually been kicked out of the Coast Guard. He was very similar in appearance and manner to a young Donald Trump, so full of himself and his ability to bullshit (and destroy if need be) anybody he wanted.

My point is, from what I’ve seen, something happens to these “remorseless killers” once they’re out of the military for a while and back amongst us civilians. Methinks their training dissipates and they change back into whatever behavioral temperaments they’d been born/raised into. But then I never worked as a cop.

On the other hand, since we’re being so open about disappointments, perhaps you can explain why in the world you still think Al Gore is so wonderful; if you were the Jason who gave him such a huge pass a short while back?

I don’t think I’ve ever mentioned Al Gore here. If I did, it certainly wasn’t in a positive light. I would think you would know that, given what and how I write.

You have always engaged in a straightforward and pleasant manner with me through the ether, yet I feel a harshness in this comment which has a “witch trial” type feel to it.

I would think, given what you “know” about me, that you would instantly know that it wasn’t me that gave Al Gore “such a huge pass a short while back.”

Further, I would think – silly me I guess – that, given our previous correspondence, you would reach out and say something like, “Hey, Jason, that doesn’t sound like you. What’s up man?!”

Instead it seems you went hard inward, decided I’m not who you thought I was, and now that I’ve engaged you you’ve responded rather cooly to me, and you’re asking for an explanation about a comment that was made “a while back” and then maybe we can get back to good-natured ribbing again.

Based on one comment on an internet board that I didn’t even make.

This is not healthy, multitude of poors. Please reach out to me directly next time, or don’t reach out at all. In fact, going forward, I think it best that we don’t engage anymore. I wish you all the best going forward.

“remorseless killers” may have been a bit, well, remorseless.

in life, the biggest chest beaters and loudest “pro military” thumpers are usually those who didn’t see direct action. at least in my experience. they’re also the ones chafing to be released from “civvie life” and go back into the loving (socialistic) arms of Daddy Big Guv. while usually ranting about commies.

the ones who slink away from “thank you for your service” generally had to do something bad to someone, and don’t like the memories of how that felt.

at the time, I’m sure the violence made sense and was justified.

it used to be commonly “known” that cops have some of the highest rates of domestic abuse and divorce out of the various professions. quite a notable number have killed their spouses and then tried to get away with it. some even do that multiple times, with their brethren covering their backs.

could it be that operating with impunity for so long permanently warps people to think they can get away with anything? and that’s assuming they didn’t always think that and weren’t attracted to the job because it fed that kind of pre-existing mentality. i think it does. i know a former schoolteacher who NEVER worked any job where she was not “in charge” of others, and who has been utterly warped by the experience into believing the world needs to meet her requirements, and the assumption that everyone else is absolutely certain to be stupider than she is. yes, even your schooteachers were very likely hyped up on a power trip.

children want to share and be friendly, unless they’ve been fucked up very early by the people around them. see “attachment theory”/”the strange situation”. tons of stuff is laid down before you even get language skills or the ability to consciously rationalize. we’re talking at the nervous system level.

multitude of poors lives in CA, where if you are poor it is somewhat like being invited to a huge, wonderful banquet with a great live band, handed an ugly apron and told you are there to serve the other people and maybe can have some of the leftovers after they’ve fallen into the trash, IF the dogs don’t want them first. oh, and your replacements are always on the way, since CA imports its own slave class and everyone who eats food in this country thinks that’s just fine because “who else is going to do that?”

sometimes you can hear the some of band. but only if you keep your sneakers on.