Alright, so someone took a shot at Congressional Republicans and killed no one, though one Congressperson was injured badly.
I find that I am unable to care about this. No one died (because they had police protection).
However, there is a great deal of stupidity and hypocrisy floating around about this. Let us start with the hypocrisy.
I can’t overstate how shaken and emotional lawmakers are today. Every one I’ve interviewed has broken into tears discussing the shooting.
— Susan Davis (@DaviSusan) June 14, 2017
So, it happens to people they know, without anyone even dying, and they’re all breaking up in tears. As someone else said, did they cry for Sandy Hook or Pulse? To hell with them, especially as they belong to the class with the most responsibility for mass shootings.
Now, to the stupidity from my favorite highly-educated idiot:
It’s easy to forget what a blessing it is to live in a country where politics rarely leads to violence, and how fragile that blessing is.
— Ezra Klein (@ezraklein) June 14, 2017
I usually don’t talk about anything Ezra says, because his entire career has been about sucking up to those in power. But, well, this is a teaching moment.
Here’s a lovely chart:
Isn’t that a wonderful chart?
What do you think happened to suddenly raise the incarceration rate?
Right…the War on (some) Drugs.
So, something that wasn’t illegal became illegal. Making it illegal didn’t reduce its use, but did make using it much more unsafe.
What happens in prisons? Well, a lot of violence, including a lot of rape.
Is that political violence? Well, it wouldn’t have happened if politicians hadn’t made a decision to make something legal, illegal, which increased harm to everyone and didn’t make the situation any better.
That is political violence.
Of course there is also non-domestic political violence—like Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Libya, and so on. A lot of people died due to those entirely political decisions. Not one of those countries attacked the US. Not one.
But now “real people” have been attacked, and they are in tears. They had no tears for dead children.
But they have tears for themselves.
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Cirze
I kept thinking all day about how many of these victims cried real tears of regret for the innocents killed in the wars they supported with their votes every day, and how caring their upcoming votes would be as they voted to deny health care to the millions of less fortunate citizens that they represent by playing games during what would be deemed work time for those fortunate enough to have found a job that requires they be at work. I\’m sure the shooter wouldn\’t have held these items of easy observance against these hard workers. In an earlier time perhaps.
realitychecker
Well, this promises to be a fun thread. 🙂
Tom
Very good, agree 100%. It only matters when it hits the ruling class.
jcapan
Ditto the insane violence we’ve unleashed on impoverished populations abroad decade after decade, including the many mini-inquisitions we facilitated throughout Latin America. Ditto prison violence and rehabilitation by rape.
I’d add that these Washingtonians somehow managed to keep from tearing up when I was a college kid and 900 people were killed right there in DC in a single year. That they were almost entirely poor and black surely had nothing to do with their relative stoicism.
White people who live in affluent zip codes are suddenly weapy and panic stricken b/c violence is no longer safely contained in ghettoes. The possibility of being struck down in a random act of violence in Rockville or Bethesda or Georgetown is still as likely as being hit by a meteor compared to what happens year in/year out in St. Louis, Baltimore, or at an Afghan or Yemeni wedding etc. Uber dicks like Klein think this is something new. Ask Native Americans or Blacks in the South if violence is a recent phenomenon.
It’s the exact parallel of concerns about drug ODs now that white kids are dying by the 1000s, not merely blacks in the inner city.
Herman
It looks like neoliberal Democrats and Republicans will be using this incident as a way to discredit and destroy Bernie Sanders and any form of left-populism in the United States. In addition to the Alexandria shooting there was a massacre at a UPS facility in San Francisco on the same day that actually led to three deaths plus the gunman who killed himself. Nobody seems to be making a connection between the two incidents but they seem similar. People driven over the deep end by economic and personal problems (the two are often related) and who lash out in response.
I think these shootings are awful and I hope Rep. Scalise pulls through but why is it that people cannot look past politics and see that there are deeper reasons for mass shootings? Most mass shootings are not even political but are the product of an atomized, miserable way of life where millions of people feel alone in the world without any support from traditional sources of community. Eventually the stress and misery causes some people to snap and “go postal.”
All one has to do is look up the startling figures on the increase in suicide, depression, anxiety, the decline of friendships and other relationships, social isolation and other pathologies to see that America is an empire in rapid decline. We are like Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Hugh
I agree. Violence is only violence, can only be called violence, when it is directed against our ruling classes. The rest of time it is business as usual, the natural order of things, the miracle of “markets”, the invisible hand, the economy, the business cycle, etc. The violence that our rich and elites do us always gets called something else and/or depersonalized. They destroy whole countries, and here at home the hopes and lives of tens of millions, diminish the lives of hundreds of millions, lard them with debt and poor healthcare that’s too expensive to access anyway, send their jobs to China, feed them oxycontin, and then kick their asses into jail, but this is not violence, because it happens to us, not them.
V. Arnold
Hugh
June 15, 2017
+1
Hugh
I should point out that Morning Joe on MSNBC is a very Establishment venue and the Establishment is really circling the wagons after this attack on them. So this morning it is unwatchable. Scarborough bemoans 24 years of hatemongering by social media and of course never mentions the complete and utter betrayal of us by that Establishment of which he is so much a part. Nope, it is all about the rubes getting out of hand, downright uppity, and not taking direction from their betters, i.e. him and people like him. We need to tone it down, dial it back, because it disturbs his class’ pristine little world. I get the feeling they are trying to turn this into some kind of national ceremony to avoid addressing the real grievances of people, to portray this as the act of single disturbed/crazed gunman in hopes of keeping others from getting any ideas, as someone once said, “to take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them.”
Stirling Newberry
The are 2 which may die.
Hugh
Stirling, critical condition does not necessarily mean life threatening or prognosis poor. Anyone who undergoes a major surgery is likely to be listed as critical until they are extubated.
Stirling Newberry
It is the Multi-surgeries part that indicates that they are still not out of the woods.
The Stephen Miller Band
Oh my God, that Ezra Klein quote is the height (and don’t any of you dare pronounce this word in your head using the “th” sound at the end) of ignorance.
Politics is Violence. It’s Systemic Violence — the worst kind of violence because it’s nameless & faceless and efficient and relentlessly brutal, and because of its inherent stealth cannot be held to account and brought to Justice.
One positive note about the shooting is that no Innocents were injured and/or murdered in the spectacle, unlike, say, a Drone Pilot eliminating several hundred innocent people at a wedding celebration from the cold comfort of his gaming chair back in Las Vegas, Nevada 10,000 miles away.
Will
I’m going to have to give this a think or two. I’ve argued this issue but never in this type of company. :p
There are a lot of things, I believe, that are going on here. And yes, I agree that the effects of the “war on drugs” have been swept under the rug. And yes, I’ll also give you that for a decent portion of the politicians of the time who midwifed this war, their intentions were anything but honorable. Regarding yesterday’s shooting, to be sure this is another one of those times when the hypocrisy has reached Homeric levels.
But the war on drugs is far from the end all and be all to cure blighted neighborhoods and small towns. Ending it ain’t even close to the answer in and of itself. And I’ll take a chance of offending some people and tell you that if you disagree then you don’t have much familiarity with what is going on out there.
About the same time we began the war on drugs we also began what might be called the war on working class jobs. Bring in as many desperate immigrants as you possibly can to compete for working class jobs, ship as many working class jobs overseas as possible, do anything and everything you possibly can to take the bottom 50% down the subsistence wages. Then move toward financialization of the remaining portions of the true economy and price people out of housing, education, and medical care.
Then set back with a self satisfied, condescending look on your face and tell this people being savaged by all of these factors that they need to get more education and lift themselves up by the boot straps.
The fact is that Paul Krugman (and his ilk) played every bit as big a part in savaging these people as Ronald Reagan. Those who laid the intellectual groundwork for the Democratic Party to turn their backs on the working class (not just the WHITE working class, grow up) are as culpable as those who intentionally launched this insane war on drugs. In both cases they were told exactly what would happen. For some they knew what they were doing but didn’t give a damn. For others hubris and a complete disregard for the work of previous generations was enough to get them onboard.
There, now you know why my right AND left wing friends don’t like talking politics with me, lol. That’s one advantage of being a true populist and nationalist, you don’t have to defend dolts like Reagan or Krugman. You can rightfully despise them both.
Will
The Stephen Miller Band
This is such a conundrum for the Conservatives. Hodgkinson fits the profile of their base aside from his alleged words and political leanings. If it was a Black guy who did this, you can be sure the reaction to it would have been much more vitriolic.
Hodgkinson poses a dilemma for Guns Rights advocates. If enough Lefties were to follow in this guy’s footsteps, what would transpire is a form of Saul Alinsky’s Rules For Radicals where you blow out the contradictions inherent in the position of Guns Rights advocates by traveling en masse, behaviorally, to the very Dark Heart of the matter and through it to the other side if there is one.
A Leftie plague of shooters using Gun Rights as cover for their carnage. Surely the only Conservative response would be Precrime — they’d have to enact legislation that locks shooters up before they actually think about shooting someone or something. People who criticize The Rich are guilty of being a shooter. People who don’t renew their professional licenses and quit their jobs are guilty of being shooters. People who like political cartoons are guilty of being shooters and people who are protesters and carry signs are guilty of being shooters.
It’s that, or you address the issue of easy access to firearms for those who have lost their minds, and let’s face it, many, many Americans have quite simply lost their minds. Ezra Klein, for example. He’s clearly lost his mind and should not have easy access to firearms. Hell, look at America’s POTUS. He is the perfect leader for America in this late stage. He’s also clearly lost his mind and he not only has easy access to mere Pea Shooters like Hodgkinson had, but he has easy access to an entire arsenal of nuclear weapons that can destroy most life on planet Earth.
anonone
Oh, and where is the serious discussion about white-on-white crime? Such animals, you know.
realitychecker
@ Will
Just wanna say (and hoping this doesn’t hurt you lol), that to me commenters like you are a treasure and an asset to any site that hopes to attract and keep thoughtful people as regulars.
BECAUSE, you don’t select ALL your values from Column A or from Column B, but are able and willing to recognize, evaluate, and incorporate the points of merit that exist and that are important to each side of the political spectrum. Actual merit-based analysis. It may infuriate purity saints from either side, but in actuality it is the only reasonable and the only rational approach to take in this time and place.
Extreme ideologues are always wrong. No matter what their flavor. Because nobody has yet come up with a political ideology that makes sense and works well in all circumstances and situations.
Just a note of support and appreciation from another one who deals with the dilemma posed by all the binary thinkers who are determined to stay in their little boxes forever. 🙂
Will
Thank you realitychecker, that is high praise. I try to be an equal opportunity offender. :p
TBH there is one aspect of this issue that I honestly am at an impasse: That of what to do with those who have mental health issues. There have been so many cases of those who are truly struggling with mental health who have ended up going off the deep end and shooting up a school or a movie theater or a train station or whatever.
We changed our way of dealing with them several decades ago. Much of it before I was born tbh. But society decided that locking up so many people was not the decent thing to do. We’re finding out now that simply giving them a prescription and sending them away has opened the door to some appalling mass murders.
So far we haven’t figured out a way to deal with this problem that is both decent and also deals prudently with the outliers who can turn psychotic. Inevitably the argument devolves into those who are safe and sane resenting any attempt to curb gun access on behalf of those who aren’t either. So we sit.
Will
juliania
For some reason, the litany of violences committed by the state put me immediately in mind of that orchestrated overthrow of the Occupy communities. Whatever one might think about the effectiveness of those groups which sprang up so quickly and multiplied across the United States, or about their racial make up, or about their idealism – to me they represented organized attempts to be heard by the ignored and downtrodden, and they were noble in that violence was not an element of the permitted discourse, and yet they were suppressed by violence and nothing was put in their place to address the need they represented.
We have seen how the West has baited Russia into again becoming what the USSR was, an ‘opponent’ against which there was money to be made for an artificial economy no longer using or serving all of its citizens. And here, that economy was turned upon the youth, whose Occupy was a cry for help. It maybe didn’t kill them, but it surely killed their hopes and dreams, and is a crime right up there with the violence being perpetrated abroad.
What is left for today’s young idealists? I weep for them and ask them to endure. This is not sustainable.
Ché Pasa
The Pandora’s Box of political violence and incitement that was opened during last year’s campaign hasn’t been closed and can’t be. What happened yesterday in Alexandria was essentially inevitable. The wonder is that there hasn’t — yet — been more of it. I suspect there will be, though how it is manifested is unknown.
The crying Representatives of Some of the People are part of the spectacle, as are the calls to unity, yadda yadda. None of it matters, really. What will matter is the reaction to this assault on Our Rulers, this premeditated, near-murderous act of lèse-majesté.
One of the immediate consequences is to show how weak these bought and paid for fools in congress really are. How weak and cowardly and fearful. And they know it.
Will they cling ever more tightly to their Ultra-Alpha on the throne? From what little I saw of the reaction yesterday, it doesn’t look like it. Looks like their initial reaction was to distance themselves even farther from his chaotics and his violent rhetoric and incitement to violent action. They’re scared to death for their own skins, and they know they don’t have long to figure out what to do to protect themselves.
Yesterday’s assault was inevitable as were so many political assaults we’ve witnessed of late. They’re so frequent, they’re almost normalized despite the keening and garment rending that accompanies some of them (others are considered “justified.”)
OK what happens now? Much tighter control of the Rabble, of course. More reliance on precrime algorithms and so on. Shut down of “violent leftist” websites? Suspension of what remains of the Bill of Rights? Unleashing the violent rightist militias to do as they will with antifa and all the other designated enemies of the state?
Maybe.
The problem is we’re in such a chaotic political situation that literally anything is possible. Predicting an outcome is not.
Given the history of political violence against the people, some of which Ian has outlined nicely, and given the history of pleading with the Rabble for unity in the face of adverse consequences for that violence, we may just be at the tipping point of rejection.
On the other hand, Our Rulers and their owners never let a good crisis go to waste. The ratchet will be tightened. Guaranteed.
Jeff Wegerson
Blaming Bernie Sanders is a double-edged sword. It strengthens his image among a lot of people they would rather it not be strengthened.
Anon
A society in which men go around shooting strangers is a society that is dangerously close to completely imploding. Why people don’t see these shootings for the warning signs they are is beyond me. America is a patient with a terminal diagnosis, and everyone keeps looking at the patient and saying, Don’t worry, you’ll be fine, here, eat these Apricot pits, this will cure you. Utter insanity. It is our culture and the economic system that creates this culture that creates these ‘happenings.’ They will never stop and they will only get worse, and soon America will truly resemble the Hobbesian hell that has been predicted for it.
Ed
In November, I was having daily fantasies of doing what he did, though I would’ve been far more effective. There are plenty of soft political targets if you know where to look, and plenty of those would be even splashier and more terrifying once they were hit.
Fortunately, I’m not an isolated loner. I’ve got a good circle of friends that I could confide such murderous thoughts in, and they’ve helped me channel that rage into more long term effective paths.
I’m here because Ian mixes in hope among his rage. I identify with the rage, and that makes me more open to the messages of hope. Those help, a lot. A lot.
Because I’m very confident that if I was isolated and without hope, the results would not be pretty.
realitychecker
Honestly, I can’t understand how so many words can get typed without any mention of what we are going to do about the consent of the governed being ignored.
Smells like rank denial to me.
Ten Bears
Marie Antoinette had no idea what was coming.
realitychecker
@ Will
I was working in the psych field in the 1970’s, but gave it up when it became clear how little we really understood at that time.
There is a true, honest dilemma, that we can’t make these people better, but we also can’t just take away their liberty before they have done anything wrong.
We can raise many, many specifics that contribute to the shitty situation we face now. IMO, the big picture is that regular folks are being relentlessly and systematically victimized by the corporate oligarchy and its minions. The fight is for the future of regular folks.
Dan Lynch
For once I am not sure that I agree with Ian. Yes, the politicians are scum and in a just world they would be tried and sentenced as war criminals among other things. However, that is not why the Bernie Bro shot them. He shot them because he was pissed that his guy — who is also a war criminal — lost the election and because he had been brainwashed to believe that Republicans are Russian agents. I don’t see anything good coming from that?
.
The reality is that if we (lefties) all pick up guns and start shooting politicians, the military will take control, the military rule will be supported by the general population, and we’ll be worse off than before.
.
What if the shooter had been a right wing nutter like the Cliven Bundy gang? Would you be OK with the Bundy gang shooting up politicians? I don’t think so.
.
Just cause matters.
StewartM
It is posts like this that make me love this blog. For most of my adult life these congresscritters have been making decisions that killed a helluva lot of innocent people both here and abroad, and making the US a meaner, nastier, less safe and free and secure place and doing that also to much of the world (and to the planet). Many of these same people have repeatedly voted against proposed legislation to make gun violence less likely, or even to repeal what little restrictions on guns that existed previously. And I’m supposed to cry over this? Our biggest problem is that our elites are too-insulated against the consequences of their bad decisions, not that they’re not insulated enough.
It would be better if more such outburst of anger occurred, though like everyone else I’d be happier with pelting them with rotten vegetables at every public appearance than bullets.
Tomonthebeach
Merely to add insult to “injury,” I find it curious that the most bellicose voices on the Hill are feigning, a la Kathy Griffin, to be emotionally devastated by a mere brush with death. Either they are betraying their true cowardice (as most bullies are), or they are, like Griffen, trying to manipulate public support for their next outrageous legislation. I think both options are likely in play.
Kudos for Sanders for immediate and forceful repudiation of bad acting by one of his supporters. It usually takes Trump a few days to decry any violence by those in his camp – even though they actually kill people.
realitychecker
Both major parties are blatant agents of the corporate oligarchy. It’s counter-productive to get distracted into the Dem vs. Repub thicket.
And yes, they are killing people every day through their actions and choices. Knowingly. Deliberately. In large numbers.
What do we think about the consent of the governed?
What is the value of an actual human life?
We are awash in denial and contradictions around both of these basic concepts. They must have better resolution than what we have now, because we now have madness.
But most fellow lefties immediately lose their minds when you even approach these areas. Personally, I’m close to giving up on even trying.
hvd
Well RC what is it that you think about the consent of the governed as it relates to this discussion?
And, what do you think about the value of an actual human life in this context?
Despite the fact that this is not your website you are always challenging folks with answering your questions, excoriating them for their failure to answer or providing an answer not to your liking but never, ever revealing anything about your thinking other than your apparent belief that you are some sort of Socratic master.
realitychecker
@ Dan Lynch
I think the reality is that revolutions are usually sparked by the irrational anger reactions of individual crazed or semi-crazed people. For any, all, or no good, reason. Doesn’t matter what. They get the ball rolling, and then others jump in because they have seen the Masters be vulnerable.
I don’t see any other way it could happen today.
Stirling Newberry
John Brown’s body lies a-moldering in the ground.
realitychecker
@ hvd
Well, your last paragraph there seems really stupid, and does not suggest good faith, so you’ll have to retract that part if you want me to answer your questions. This is a discussion area, hopefully for discussions that are focused enough to mean something. If you want to lead or initiate a discussion, go ahead and do it. I don’t want to be in charge of anything.
You don’t seem to notice that many here have dedicated their lives to attacking me lately. I don’t suffer fools or foolish attackers gladly. I feel no guilt for that, and I may even take pleasure occasionally in defending myself. 🙂
realitychecker
@ Stirling
Two hundred years from now, there won’t be any songs about Stirling Newberry.
Guaranteed.
Stirling Newberry
Go back to tv, it’s the only thing you can misunderstand.
realitychecker
@ StewartM
My thoughtful amigo, you seem to be straying ever closer to the idea that violent action might have to happen somewhere sometime. Good for you. I think the left generally has been hopelessly naive about the use of force and the principles of self-defense.
We all have some adjusting to do, IMO.
Agree that this blog offers good opportunities, if we will only take them.
realitychecker
If I misunderstood you, I apologize, Stirling.
Did I misunderstand you?
TacJack
Excellent piece.
Simply put, the Congress is reaping the seeds of violence, hate and repression they’ve sown.
They will call this assertion and Ian’s commentary a “false equivalency.”
They would wrong.
FEA – Fuck Em All!
Ché Pasa
Our Rulers have been governing contrary to the will of the People and the Public Interest for decades. They have largely been able get away with it in part through the device of TINA, in part through the device of politesse and in part through engineering repeated crises to exploit as well as taking advantage of spontaneous crises.
The electoral process produces more and more of the same.
Frustration builds and builds, and now and then someone snaps, goes berserk and shoots up a post office, factory, church, school or mall or movie theater or what have you, and Our Rulers smile because none of the shots affect them in any way. It’s just one lone gunman gunning for expendable Rabble. Who cares? More gunz!
Yesterday was different in that the shooter wasn’t berserk at all but was instead deliberate and thoughtful, prepared, and consistent in his targeting the high-ish and the would-be mighty. (We’ve seen this pattern in a number of instances over the years, haven’t we? Anybody remember the DC Sniper? Long time ago now. Terrorized Versailles, but didn’t touch the Ruling Class…)
Yesterday’s incident was a crisis for the Ruling Class because it showed how vulnerable, frightened and cowardly they truly are. How much they depend on their guards and walls and gates and screens to keep the Rabble at bay. How weak they really are.
It will take time for that lesson to be learned, but it will be.
And then?
Who can say?
Ten Bears
History only repeats to those paying attention.
Willy
There was an anti-bullying blog where the owner noted that victims who came back as random shooters tended to go after bully enablers, instead of the bullies themselves.
Not condoning any such thing, but that idea resonated. Is the energy behind the current political divide not a similar kind of acting out? Imagine if all that misguided angst could be redirected towards the bullies who’ve thus far, been successful at keeping the minions fighting amongst themselves, as well as the mythical ‘evil other side’.
Meanwhile, (studies have shown) that most policy at all levels aids the elites, rarely ever the remaining 99%.
Willy
Despite the fact that this is not your website you are always challenging folks with answering your questions, excoriating them for their failure to answer or providing an answer not to your liking but never, ever revealing anything about your thinking other than your apparent belief that you are some sort of Socratic master.
RC, you really need to understand that, especially this part:
never, ever revealing anything about your thinking other than your apparent belief that you are some sort of Socratic master..
Seriously, far too many people are saying this about you for this to be ignored.
Answering most people with “Stupid!” leaves them thinking you are just plain crazy.
Answering most people with ‘clearly detailed reason’ leaves them thinking.
You’ll get far better results with the latter.
realitychecker
I smell people (even, gasp, Che Pasa) gingerly creeping closer to my own views about the benefits of fighting back against an unjust system. 🙂
Maybe, before I die . . .
realitychecker
@ Willy
You always seem to want me to type a textbook for you, but I think I have done enough to just show where there is an open door for YOU, or anybody else, to explore if you choose to (Recall the Public Enemies recommendation, for example.).
It takes a lot of time and energy for me to fully lay out every complex topic and all the variations around it. You must help with cooperation rather than obstruction, or it doesn’t work very well..
My strategy: Someone of the proper mindset to give me a good interaction will be astute enough to note the open door I’ve shown them, and do a bit of peeping around on their own before coming back with their own input.
Maybe even show me an open door sometime.
Stirling Newberry
> History only repeats to those paying attention.
The rest talk too loud, which is most of us.
realitychecker
@ Stirling
What was the intended meaning of the John Brown reference you made? I took it to be intended as mockery of Brown; was it? (Recall that his cause was freeing the slaves.)
someofparts
Maybe RH is a plant. The persistent redirecting of the talk to violence is making me suspicious.
realitychecker
@ someofparts
Ooooh, maybe Ian is a plant. After all, he wrote this post.
Better keep your day job, you make a lousy intelligence agent.
Booogeda, booogeda.
Violence exists.
The Stephen Miller Band
Why isn’t jerking off to naked women with shaved pussies and bleached assholes not good enough anymore as far as fantasies are concerned?
You guys are too funny.
Soon enough, you’ll be linking to websites on how to build Dirty Bombs. I’m sure The Russians have a ready supply of plutonium available to any Fantastical American in search of some for his Dirty Bomb Project. Putin would be more than happy to oblige and maybe he already is. Time will tell. It always does.
FYI, those with Violent Fantasies should seek help immediately. Call your local FBI Office immediately and if they don’t take you seriously, call The White House.
Stirling Newberry
John Brown was an incompetent commander, who started the civil war.;”the meteor” of the war, as Herman Melville said. He also had the original words which later were used as the battle anthem of the war – “Mine eyes have the glory”. The people who sign the song were in deadly earnest.
I won’t bother you with the details, which will go over your head as to why I said it – “It will waste my time, and annoys the pig.”
realitychecker
Yeah, Stirling, he had a good cause, but wasn’t competent enough. But his cause triumphed, which is why we remember him.
And won’t remember you, I guess.
realitychecker
BTW, that punchline is supposed to be, ” . . .and the pig likes it.”
Bass ackwards again. 🙂
realitychecker
@ STMB
“shaved pussies and bleached assholes”
Oooh, here come the misogyny police. Enjoy.
Peter
@CP
Your description of the Virginia shooter was accurate but incomplete in describing his targets. They were political class members, servants of the ruling class and he went beyond that identity to chose his targets. This deliberate and thoughtful shooter asked someone who was leaving the practice if they were democrats or republicans and when they were identified as republicans he went and got his gun.
This was a partisan political hate crime not some attack on the ruling class or even the whole political class and I imagine his real goal was to shoot the main target of this snowflake hate campaign, Trump.
realitychecker
@ Peter
Well, if the guy did manage to shoot Trump, it would clearly be Trump’s fault, according to Che Pasa.
Try to get your head around that. 🙂
The Stephen Miller Band
If so, he’s not, or he wasn’t, too bright. If he was after Trump, all he had to do was look up Putin’s ass. Trump can be found there all day every day feasting away on his Man Crush’s detritus.
The Stephen Miller Band
What an odd statement for a Violent Revolutionary. The guy is James Hodgkinson and Donald Trump has killed more people now than Hodgkinson could have ever fantasized about killing if he fantasized about killing at all before doing his deed, yet you have no problem saying Trump’s name. Funny, that.
Ten Bears
The listener learns. It’s gonna’ be a long hot summer.
realitychecker
@ STMB
Try to keep up, read CP’s prior comments past 24 hours.
cripes
Although I’m no fan of public shooters (see Lenin on individual terrorists), The crocodile tears from murderers, and the exhibitionist circling of wagons presided over by Paul Ryan on the floor of congress (An. Attack, Against. Us. All. Congresscritters!) is pathetic and undeserving of support. Read the Tea Leaves instead.
The Stephen Miller Band
“Why isn’t jerking off to naked women with shaved pussies and bleached assholes not good enough anymore as far as fantasies are concerned?”
–Not being directed at the OWNER of ladyparts, but the fantasizer, has the benefit of being both funny and insightful, instead of Trump-like misogyny.
hvd
“Despite the fact that this is not your website you are always challenging folks with answering your questions, excoriating them for their failure to answer or providing an answer not to your liking but never, ever revealing anything about your thinking other than your apparent belief that you are some sort of Socratic master.”
–Just. Nailed. It.
Some students imagine themselves scholars.
Or website owners, or webmasters, or something.
Instead of guests who should refrain from throwing tantrums or unearned authority around.
Peter
@RC
The NYT is blaming Sarah Palin for the shootings and Stevie just added Putin to the notables list which I knew would happen eventually.
In their desperation to distance themselves from this progressive partisan gunman and project blame onto the victim’s party the bottom of the snowflake barrel is exposed. Callous disregard for any shooting victims mixed with commie whataboutism while kindling the fires of hate is not a display of liberal enlightenment or it may reflect the ugly void at the core of that construct.
realitychecker
@ Peter
Don’t bother me now, I’m totally occupied with watching these guys trying to turn this into a safe space. 🙁
Mommy, someone expressed their opinion too forcefully. WAAAAH.
Political rhetoric has always run hot; you guys ain’t seen nothin’ from me that exceeds precedent.
All your heroes use rough language when they are not on camera. Grow the fuck up already.
realitychecker
It’s your website, cripes. Run with it.
The Stephen Miller Band
Peter, if only your erudite wisdom could miraculously find a way to trickle up to your Superiors, perhaps Trump’s Presidency so far would be somewhat coherent. Unfortunately, trickling only goes one direction. Down. Unless it’s Wealth. Wealth is the only thing that Trickles up and not down. And Hope floats until it sinks you.
Ian Welsh
One can think that shooting at Congress critters will have bad blowback while also not feeling that they are due any particular sympathy, indeed rather less than one might give to, say, a Yemeni girl harmed by the current conflict there.
I, of course, don’t condone violence against American politicians, or against innocents.
(I don’t know that the blowback from this shooting will be worse than any positive results. No opinion. Just don’t have any sympathy when they are affected by the violence they so casually foist on others.)
Spec
If I recall correctly, young Ezra also supported the Iraq War, didn’t he?
Because that’s pretty much my litmus test for political figures of a certain age. If they had an opinion of the Iraq War back then and what it was.
Cripes
I think Peter is mistaken. The significance of James Hodgkinsin is not that he voted for Sanders or went to an Occupy encampment. It is that he is exactly the demographic of numerous white, right wing, middle aged, alienated not-all-white males raging at the corrupt, oligarch elites stealing…everything.
Too bad Peter clutches any slim reed to push his weird theory that it’s all the result of some “progressive” agenda.
Realitychucker
Whatevs.
Willy
A culture of corruption also trickles down. If you can’t beat em… then blame “the other side”.
Jared Loughner was said to be something in the alt-right range. Sometime before the Giffords attack he’d publicly asked her “What is government if words have no meaning?”
I’m hoping that any ‘loons with guns’ debates would include what should be the most serious issue.
Willy
Peter’s the village wingnut, circa 2003. He listens to Kid Rock while driving a humvee with a Dubya sticker on the bumper.
Willy
Last one.
About “snowflakes” and “safe spaces”. I don’t think shaming’s gonna work.
One must remember, we’re the mexican villagers in Three Amigos, or the deltas in Animal House (better than quoting Tolstoy). We’re nice and decent folk, regular mensch. If we weren’t, wouldn’t we be out plotting newer-better ways to step on regular mensch instead of showing up here? We’re not necessarily weak, but our natural tendency is to fight fair. We need somebody to inspire us to do what doesn’t come naturally, like building a death mobile.
cripes
Willy
Not sure “what should be the most serious issue.” means. Just askin’
And yeah, despite the bluster, a solid strain of fair-mindedness runs through the debate here. I often wonder the cost of such luxuries, at the same time I won’t complain if my epitaph reads, “he was too nice,” considering the alternatives. Which it will.
Peter
@W
I voted for Nader and will never regret that decision, it didn’t require holding my nose closed to block the Clinton stink on Gore on top of his own stink.
Let me know if you crack and plan to make IED’s to stop my imaginary Humvee from victimizing you so I can hire an imaginary Blackwater security team. If that proves too challenging you might move up to the suicide bomb vest and I think there was already another commenter who might help you with that.
Ivory Bill Woodpecker
Holy Ascended Madoka, the Internet Tough Guys(tm) are thick on this thread. 😛
Going on the bitterly learned wisdom of the Vietnam-era radicals–“The first guy who suggests violence is always the undercover cop.”–the taxpayers are not getting their money’s worth out of RC as an agent provocateur.
Yes, no one on Earth, outside of a small circle of family and other acquaintances, will remember my name after I die.
Big Fat Hairy Deal.
I’ll be somewhere far better than Earth, where I will never die a second time.
Ivory Bill Woodpecker
Tangent: I wonder if Bill Ayers was one of those undercover cops, and the government deliberately sabotaged its own prosecution of him because of that?
Tom
The problem for the US is we don’t have democracy anymore.
We have first past the post in a two party system with a bicameral legislature designed to prevent issues having a straight up or down vote. End result is minority rule by the 1%.
What we should have is a multi-party system that awards seats in a unicameral Congress by proportional vote across the parties and these elections must occur at the same time as the presidential election. Such a system will break the downward spiral America has been in and allow the youth to finally start pushing their own policies.
Ten Bears
Before, Bill, the Racists threw his name out there maybe two hundred out of two hundred fifty million people had heard of Bill Ayers.
You know, a Big Fat Hairy Deal.
jackiebass
I’m watching a discussion on C-Span about gun laws. After the shooting , nothing has changed. The gun enthusiast still claim that the solution to gun violence is more guns. It’s amusing that republicans seem to champion states rights until it goes against something they want. A republican congress man is proposing a law that takes a states right away concerning gun laws. He wants it to be legal for a person to concealed carry in any state as long as they have a permit to conceal carry in their state. D.C. has strict gun laws. Republicans want to make congressmen immune form their laws and allow them to conceal carry. I don’t often use the words never or all but, in talking to gun advocates I’ve never found one you can convince that it’s necessary to have reasonable gun control laws. Actually states like FL and TX have laws that make it legal to kill someone with a gun for almost any reason they can make up.
The Stephen Miller Band
HaHa!! I feel the same way. The greatest men & women are the ones we never heard of as though they don’t exist or never existed. They’re not even shadows, but closer really, to a whisper on the wind.
Unlike most Conservatives, I do not want my grown children to be reliant or overly reliant on me as a crutch. I want them to make their own way. I want them to find their own fulfillment. I want them to do what they do for themselves and The World/Universe, not out of some duty or obligation to me & my wife as their parents.
There will be no weeping at my funeral. There will be no crowd gathered. Very few people if any will attend. It’s still a prominent cultural artifact to consider a person’s worth not only by the size of their wallet and what’s in it, but by the spectacle of their funeral. The more pomp & ceremony & attendees, the greater the person’s worth. My wife’s drug addict nephew, who sired a child with his drug-addicted cousin and later the body of this child was found in the backyard when the father was digging a garden ( a family secret), had a huge funeral. The inhabitants of this notable Deep South Port City came out of The Woodwork in droves to pay homage to this magnanimous individual who thieved and stole and lied and abused the majority of his short life. One would have thought he was the Dalai Lama. I watched the spectacle and I thought about what inept, weak cowards all these people were and are that came to pay their respects to someone who deserves, deserved, no respect. They couldn’t protect this fiend from the evil that waits & lurks, but they can pay their respects, like the good & decent people they are, after the evil has run its course and moved on to its next target. Pathetic. Hypocritical. Disgusting. Community.
I said this to my daughter the other day. She doesn’t get it, but I do. Maybe some of you do as well. If you’re in it to make a name for yourself, you are not great in any sense of the word, and even if you’re not and you still make a name for yourself, you’re still not great and worthy of praise & adulation.
Hugh
jackiebass, you could make that into a political rule:
“X seem to champion Y until it goes against something they want.”
Libertarians want small government except for defense where they want big governmen. Conservatives want the Feds to stay out of regulation, but they want them to intervene when it is a question of corporate rights. Both want government to stay out of our private lives, except where women’s bodies are concerned. I would include the views of liberals in this phenomenon except their views have become so variable, it is hard to say what they want. They are against wars under Republican Administrations but for them under Democratic ones. They are appalled by the surveillance state, except when it targets Republicans.
Willy
Peter,
Well that blows my fantasy of converting the humvee into a death mobile.
Willy
@cripes,
The most serious issue is that the corruption within the political-corporate world is trickling down to the common culture. Loughner and Hodgkinson may have been statistical anomalies, but I’d think that with increasing corruption there’d also be increasing blowback from those who aren’t good at ‘playing the game’. People don’t like feeling completely powerless. And I don’t think that repeatedly barking “personal responsibility!” at them will change them much. Not if they believe that everything is rigged. As evil such as workplace bullying/mobbing increase, so will the acting out.
The Stephen Miller Band
Arthur Miller described Americana perfectly with Death of a Salesman — a Nation of Willy Lomans chasing Pipe Dreams.
There’s no need for Blowback when you can choose to not Play The Game. If taking Personal Responsibility means Shut Up And Play The F*cking Game, then consider me highly irresponsible, but no Blowback for me, or from me, thank you very much. I choose, and have chosen, not to play but rather watch, report & critique.
cripes
Willy:
Yes, exclusion from meaningful participation in a rigged society will do that, even for people who have enough to eat and a roof. It’s been pointed out that over-educated, superfluous scions of the professional classes, like Ted Kaczynski?, historically are the most dangerous.
Stephen:
If you want something to eat and a roof, not to mention, oh, healthcare, clothes and transportation, sometime, somewhere, someone will come up to you and say, you’re in some part of the game.
Willy
TSMB,
I thought the best way to not play the game was to go into business for myself, and it’s been difficult but not hopelessly so. But that name brand global corporation I escaped from has a way of reaching back from that grave. I’m firmly convinced that that place is so full of systemic rot (I have a hundred anecdotal examples) that they cannot survive without significant assistance from federal and state government. Being too big to fail, much of their “profits” are generated by having small businesses and generally, the little people, pay for all their tax breaks and government contracts. They’re always seen near the top of corporate lobby lists, so yeah…
You won’t be seeing me falling down to bust into that place anytime soon, as I took the personal responsibility to leave before all that got to me. But I think of two guys I worked with who were outstanding long time loyal employees who got ousted for committing the crime of being too old (around 50). Neither has the off ramp I had built for myself. I’m wondering what they’ll do.
There’s another I only know through his blog (quality inspector, fired for whistleblowing) who’s trying to “watch, report & critique”. At the end of the day, I’m wondering what he’ll do as well.
Meanwhile worthless employees move ahead because of their connections and game skills.
In its early days, that company was among the very best in its class. Maybe it’s the way of things – all successful companies grow, ripen, then rot, as the inevitable social politics of corruption takes over. Maybe it’ll happen to their competitors as well. But I don’t think so.
I think what’s happened there mirrors the way things work in DC. Or because of it.
Peter
@Jack
The right to bear arms predates our constitution but states do have the power to enforce gun laws and regulations which they do. Texas unlike my state NM has a law that prohibits the open carry of pistols unless they are black powder antiques. This may be like the DC law and I wonder if either have any affect on crime.
The laws enacted in Florida and Texas guaranteeing the right to armed self-defense may produce some flawed decisions but most instances of its use show legal necessary use of force.
After decades of watching the gun control nuts climb on top of still warm victims of violence to sell their snake-oil it’s become obvious that many of them mean gun banning when they spout the ‘reasonable gun control’ mantra.
The Stephen Miller Band
Willy, thanks for clarifying, and I agree, one option in not playing the game is to go into business for yourself or with others. Too bad you guys can’t combine your efforts under one roof. This is why I say I’m all for Free Enterprise, but not for Capitalism. Capitalism is not about Free Enterprise — quite the contrary. Capitalism hates competition and kills it in the cradle before it ever has a chance to grow.
The problem with going into business for yourself is the upfront capital needed to get it up & running before it becomes self-sustaining. We need a new System of Capital Formation and Distribution. Capital is concentrated in too few, Too-Big-To-Fail, Anti-Competitive hands under the current System. People like you and I who make great business owners are essentially locked out because of lack of access to capital.
If we don’t change this System soon, we will all be like your former colleagues. What will WE do then? Remember, the extrapolation of the trend line indicates that via automation, the unemployment rate will be 50% or greater in 20 years. Your former colleagues that you mentioned, and inquired as to what they’ll do, will be all of us soon enough. They are the Canaries In The Coal Mine.
Willy
What will happen to gun control efforts after automation really takes hold? We don’t want mobs running around with more than pitchforks and torches now, do we?
Hugh
Peter repeats the revisionist history of the US as told by the NRA. The Second Amendment was about maintaining militias in the absence of a permanent army.
It was only in 2008 in DC v. Heller that the Supreme Court in an opinion by the “originalist” gun nut Scalia wrote the 2nd Amendment “protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.”
In the law, words are important, indeed paramount. If the Framers had meant what Scalia invented they meant, they would have said so. They began the amendment by referencing its scope and purpose. If they had wanted to extend its meaning they would have included an “and” or simply stated “the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” They didn’t. They referenced this right within the context of the need for militias for the defense of the country, a need which has not existed for more than 150 years. That is since the time of the Civil War which exhibited the flaw in the Amendment when Southern militias were, in fact, used in an effort to destroy the country. But try to get gun nuts, NRA propagandists, or the sainted dead and dishonest bastard Scalia to admit this? No way, Jose. They wrap themselves up in their fake history.
If they wanted to make a Constitutional case, they could try to do so under the 9th Amendment:
But here too, they would run into the weight of history. There is simply no history of a right to bear arms, let alone an absolute right to do so. In England, the source of legal history and precedent the Framers were familiar with and used, gun ownership and use was highly restricted. So no right there. In the colonies, there was also no inherent right to bear arms as such. Guns were useful tools much like pewter dishes and bowls. But just as pewter was banned when lead toxicity became known. The same should have happened with guns, both because of their harmfulness and our now long history of a permanent standing army, had not this deeply, deeply dishonest mythology of the “right to bear arms” not sprung up.
And let us not minimize their harmfulness. Per wiki,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
Wiki also notes, “Approximately 1.4 million people have been killed using firearms in the U.S. between 1968 and 2011.” or about 4,666 9/11s. Is Peter’s infantile hard on for guns worth it? No, but that will not stop him and millions like him in defending their sick fetish.
Hugh
Should read “466 9/11s”
Willy
But if you’re a couple of unattractive nobodies, then openly carrying weapons to the kids soccer practice will make you somebody, especially after you’ve killed each other in a domestic dispute.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-toting-soccer-mom-murder-meleanie-hains-kids-say-daddy-shot-mommy/
Somewhere, Ralph Nader weeps.
Tom
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/philando-castile-case-verdict-jeronimo-yanez/
Another officer gets away with murder.
brian
I have a hard time feeling sympathy knowing the hatred and vileness, the divisive politics, the pushing for ‘resistance’, putting on plays showing assassination. Congress played with fire and now one got burnt. Spare me the ‘now I care it’s one of us’ tears. They are disgusting.
Peter
Hugh seems very proud to represent the ignorant agenda driven gun banning Commie, Fascist, Clintonite losers. He may be a constitutional scholar/lawyer or just play one on the interweb but that degenerate Statist social engineering has been rejected.
Most people seem to understand that denying law abiding citizens an individual natural right to bear arms is not a logical remedy for violence caused by a tiny minority of criminals. Hugh’s attempt to redefine the second amendment shows how sick some peoples ideas have become because this would lead directly to confiscation of arms by the police state.
The English codified the natural right to own and bear arms in their 1689 bill of rights because the dictator king was confiscating one group’s weapons. Our bill of rights also codifies an existing individual natural right but it also expands the right to cover well regulated militia groups. The founding fathers saw no reason to couch this individual right in legalize or explain it to future dimwits who need authority figures to tell them what to believe about natural rights.
The gun banning and confiscation mouth-breathers seem to depend on the quaint notion that the founding fathers created the natural right to bear arms so they can erase it from the bill of rights, if they can just become powerful enough. For now that threat to individual freedom is receding but these diseased minds will continue to plot their return.
realitychecker
@ Peter
IOW, gun-phobics think, “Go forth and face grizzly bears and hostile natives and take over this continent for us, but do it without any arms” was the true intent of the Founders.
That would have gone over big at the time. 🙂
Willy
What happens when today’s grizzly bears and hostile natives are our own lawmakers?
And the rare Hinckley becomes the common Hodgkinson?
I’ll you bet some of these “natural rights” will change right quick.
DMC
Those of us old enough to remember when Reagan was Governor of CA will recall that the NRA used to be very gun control indeed and was instrumental in getting open carry banned in that state. It was in response to the Black Panthers peaceably assembling with shouldered rifles. When the Lefties start showing up with guns, THEN they’ll take us seriously. If every one of the pipeline protesters was packing a long arm, you can bet they wouldn’t be getting tear-gassed, fire hosed and set on by dogs. Compare and contrast with how the cretins that took over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge were treated by law enforcement. So while I have little but contempt for gun fetishists as such, history teaches us that from “ultima ratio regum” to Stalin’s observation that “political power comes from the barrel of a long rifle”, nothing says “serious” like armed masses.
realitychecker
The “natural right” at issue is the right of personal self-defense, which every animal has.
The base problem for the gun controllers is they have no advice at all for the weak and defenseless except, “Stay inside.”
Nor, apparently, any concern for those people, since I have never gotten one to reply to my concern for that demographic. Never any reply at all.
BUT, let’s not do the gun debate again. (groan)
Hugh
Gun control is a lot like healthcare. We have numerous examples from other industrial countries where it is done right, where guns laws are more restrictive and murder rates are far lower than in the US. But we are to ignore these because they are inconvenient facts. So we get the usual canards, alternative facts, alternative histories.
We get the people who have to have their GUNZ because they have rewritten the Constitution in their own minds to make it so. The Second Amendment, the Second Amendment, the mantra of the terminally stupid. These are the same people who have seen their other rights, the real ones, sail away and who have not lifted a finger or pulled a trigger to defend them, but GUNZ, GUNZ, GUNZ, they need their GUNZ to protect themselves. From whom? Philando Castile had a gun and he was shot dead by a policeman and the policeman walked. He was “deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law” (the Fifth Amendment) and you barely blinked. The Fourth Amendment states that “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated” but this is violated all the time. How did your GUNZ help you with these? How did you use them to protect yourselves? Oh right, you didn’t. You just waved those rights bye-bye. But you need your guns because you are sad, pathetic people. You didn’t need them to protect your rights. You just needed to be responsible citizens, to be willing to stand up and stand together to protect the rights of others and in doing so, protect your own rights. But that was too hard. That required commitment. It meant you had to take a stand. Instead you clutch your guns, or more accurately the thought of your guns, and the powers that be let you because they can take whatever they want from you and they know you will do nothing. And if you do use your guns, despite all their current chest beating, they know you will use them against each other or to blow your own brains out. It is a win win for them. Your guns don’t keep you safe, but they do keep you afraid, divided, powerless. For them, what’s not to like in that?
realitychecker
@ Hugh
Hate to say this, but that was pretty hysterical; I’m surprised at you.
Strong people can kill weak people, and always have and always will. Even without weapons.
What is your answer to those weak ones, whom the courts have ruled the police have no duty to protect? That it’s natural for the predators to take the weak ones from the herd?
I never get an answer to that concern. I think maybe the monsters are the ones who don’t care about those weak ones who fear being vulnerable in the unprotected streets.
Maybe you think horrible street crimes don’t really happen? I’ve been the victim of several, and have saved the victims of a couple. I know it is a real thing, so please don’t pretend that it is not.
I think you have unrealistic expectations of guns, and so are disappointed to see that they are not a perfect solution. You need to realize that of course they are an imperfect solution, but they are an imperfect solution to an intolerable reality, which is that any one of us can be taken down at any time by predators.
I’ll leave it there. This debate never varies.
Peter
I agree, RC and as gun banning seems a dead issue for now it’s best left alone. A larger issue is that the liberal agenda tried to used it as a tool to normalize state power and control over individual rights. This is not much different than the way they promote and try to impose climate hysteria nostrums onto citizens as a group and they failed at that also.
The jury in the Castile homicide, not murder, case had a very difficult decision to make. If the account of the encounter and shooting was accurate they had to judge the shooting as justified. Castile may have had a concealed carry permit but that didn’t allow him to handle his gun during a traffic stop while a nervous cop screamed at him not to touch his weapon. This was a tragedy of errors and we’ll never know why Castile grabbed his gun. There are other cop shootings that were clearly unjustified and some of those cops didn’t escape punishment but too many did. It seems that the number of this type of shooting has decreased in the last year so it’s possible better conflict resolution tactics are being used.
realitychecker
Dead issue?
Instead of “Lefty Goes Postal” the headlines this weekend look more like “Guns Still Bad and Trump Made A Lefty Kill A Guy.”
(sigh)
Peter
The snowflakes got no traction from their gun control mewing so the spinning began. Blame the victim by projecting that Trump and Palin are the killer influences. Huffington Post, or what’s left of it, is reporting that one Trump supporter ‘Stormed ‘and shut down the Julius Caesar play while another shouted Nazis. That’s all it takes to scatter the snowflakes, two people?
I am surprised how well behaved even disciplined the Deplorables have been during this rolling coup attempt. We may see that change at the next large gathering of the resistance.
Hugh
I am tired of the canned GUNZ is good blather. Give me an argument. Cite me some facts. But this brain dead cant is wearing. If guns empowered you or protected you, the powers that be would make them illegal. But they don’t because guns don’t. They just make you more afraid and more stupid.
realitychecker
@ Hugh
Sounds like you think criminal predators should be free to violate the citizenry without fear.
Have you EVER been exposed to criminal violence?
If so, did you like being helpless?
What is your answer to those who do not wish to feel helpless?
realitychecker
BTW, Hugh, the “GUNZ IS EVIL” blather is just as tiring to those of us who have dealt with the fact of violence in the real world.
Do you have any answer at all for the weak who wish to be able to go outside without making themselves into helpless predator prey, relying on luck to get them home unviolated?
If you don’t, then you might as well just be honest and say, “Fuck ’em.”
hvd
Rc – it might be helpful if you had any statistics on crime being prevented by the use of guns.
Otherwise you are just making noise.
I have twice been the victim of crimes one of which involved a knife, the other a gun, in NYC. A gun would have been useless in either situation and would probably have resulted in my death. I fared far better using my wits – walking away unscathed both times and with my property.
Nevertheless it is clear that we live in the safest of times. Your arguments are those of a coward. And you the great revolutionary.
If on the other hand you were arguing for disbanding all police forces and leaving defense of self and property to each of us individually that perhaps would be interesting.
realitychecker
@ hvd
I really hate when I get scornful comments from the clearly ignorant.
Do you even know that the courts have ruled that the police have no duty to protect you?
Do you think that your own limited experience, where you got LUCKY, is sufficient to define the destinies of everybody else?
Do you think you are actually going to be seeing LESS violent crime going forward from here?
You are a sheep, just waiting to be taken by a wolf. Telling yourself that there is no wolf, can’t be, because you haven’t been eaten yet.
If the wolf comes at me, I am prepared to make sure that HE is the one that dies.
I prefer my way.
hvd
RC –
I assume you are referring to a part of the doctrine of sovereign immunity that protects to a lesser or greater degree, public officials from tort liability. This proves what?
You are the craven one. Poor pathetic you surrounded on all sides by hideous never relenting danger. I hope at the least you have an uzi or a howitzer.
How about proof other than your own inordinate fear? It is interesting to me how you, the raver about revolution and consent of the governed, dismiss because of your own personal cowardice the clear support of the majority of Americans for reasonable restrictions on the ownership of firearms.
I guess the only reality you have any actual connection with is your own internal quiverings. I have been trying to put my finger on what it is exactly that best describes your repeated bullying behavior here and total inability to put forth a consistent world view and have finally decided that you are a chicken hawk.
realitychecker
@ hvd
Your idiotic words do not a reality make.
Don’t worry, I don’t give a fuck what you think, or what matters to you, for that matter.
Neither does anybody else. 🙂
Ultra
Peter: “Callous disregard for any shooting victims mixed with commie whataboutism while kindling the fires of hate is not a display of liberal enlightenment…”
The French Revolution was one of the consequences of the liberal enlightenment. The Communists didn’t invent violent revolution; they copied it.
Ultra
Ezra Klein: “It’s easy to forget what a blessing it is to live in a country where politics rarely leads to violence, and how fragile that blessing is.”
American culture has a long and distinguished history of engaging in both overt and covert forms of violence. Like many middle- to upper-class Americans, Ezra is unable to perceive reality beyond his precious little bubble.
realitychecker
@ hvd
Your ignorance is really astounding; violent crime rates have been climbing dramatically the last few years, your “safe streets” reflect a comparison to the early 1990’s, not the recent past.
Home invasions are one of the fastest growing categories of violent crime.
Go to the FBI website if you need confirmation of these widely known facts.
Hard times = more crime. It ain’t that difficult to figure out, unless one has blinders on. We have only hard times ahead. That is also not hard to figure out.
When push comes to shove, IF push comes to shove, you will wish you had a gun to defend yourself, your family, and others. Until then, your ad hominem bleatings are nothing more than that.
You are free to bathe in delusions and denial until reality comes along and educates you.
What a country!
hvd
Why when I respond in kind to RC the great revolutionary and coward by pointing out the fact that he is quick to take up arms against victims of our system that creates hard times, but never once dares to actually argue that the second amendment if it has any value at all with respect to an individual right to maintain arms gains that validity with respect to a protection not from the disadvantaged but against oppression, is my comment deleted?
Is it because I called him for his babbling or is it because I suggested that he clean his pants of the coward’s stain?
Peter
@Ultra
Some people today may share the agendas of the French head-choppers of yesterday but they both seem to have missed the lecture on enlightenment. These are damaged minds looking to inflict mayhem into society for their own personal grievances or group agenda.
realitychecker
@ hvd
It’s probably because your ignorance makes you an embarrassment to the site.
BTW, I have intervened to save two innocents from violent street felonies, one a man, one a woman, and without a gun.
One time from a guy who could have beat me up easily, the other time from three attackers.
Coward? Really?
You who are afraid of new ideas are the real coward.
Also btw–self-defense was, and is, a universal natural concept. It does not need a constitutional amendment to justify itself. Moron.
Also btw–you seem to have concluded I favor a revolution without having a discussion about it.
Wrong. I want to have the discussion to refine my own views, by testing my thoughts against other intelligent people.. But you and others here are afraid to even have the discussion. Cowards?