So, we have another allegation that Assad has used chemical weapons. I’ll be straight: The guy has everything to lose by doing so, and nothing important to gain, so I doubt it.
Virtually all the pundits are crying for war; Marcon is onside (and claims to have proof of the chemical attack), Tony Blair is onside, and so on.
Trump, having learned from past attacks that the only thing the media almost-universally likes that he does is bombing people, seems to be considering attacking, despite his past avowals that America shouldn’t be in Syria. For example:
.@realDonaldTrump remember this? Take some advice from yourself. pic.twitter.com/4B5V4K9QI9
— Secular Talk (@KyleKulinski) April 11, 2018
Attacking Syria is insanity. Even if chemical weapons were used, it’s none of the US’s business, and yeah, as noted many times before, Russia is there, and war with Russia should be avoided.
The main reason that I didn’t endorse Clinton was that she was deranged on Syria and Russia, wanting a no-fly zone after the Russians intervened, appearing to personally hate Putin, and so on.
The Republicans and Trump, of course, are deranged on Iran instead.
Joy.
So, it’d be nice if the US would not overreact here. Syria’s been a nasty, unpleasant war, which is almost over now. Let’s keep it that way. The US should never have been involved in the first place, as they have no important interests in Syria and, well, war is bad and should be avoided in most cases.
Perhaps Americans could, in general, learn to mind their own goddamn business? The world, and the US, would both be better places.
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Rd
where was the US and EU when sadam was using chemical weapons (provided by the west for the most part) on Iran? some 60k died from those and many suffered. and when sadam used chems on Kurds and many thousands more died including children!!!! where were the heart bleeding US/UK and now frenchies???
and when sadam’s chemical weapons were destroyed,and non-existent then the US/UK and the western hypocrites attacked Iraq and caused some 100’sK more deaths.. western establishment are the diseases to humanity
realitychecker
But, but, but, Ian, if we stop messing around with Middle Eastern wars, Armageddon might never get here.
WWJD lol?
Seriously, I have always been of the opinion that the Middle East is too complex to be dealt with effectively by American brains. When America gets involved there, it becomes more like the Muddle East.
TJ
Yeah, minding our own business for once would be nice. Not likely when
we’re stooging for Saudi Arabia and Israel, though.
Sid Finster
Good luck with that. Trump’s mouth has painted him into a corner.
Meanwhile, russiagate conspiracy theorists will still scream “Putin puppet!” even as the ICBMs launch. “Trump is fighting the Deep State” delusionals will insist that it’s all brilliant eleven dimensional chess, even as they go up in a mushroom cloud.
IIRC, Trump’s 2017 unprovoked attack on Syria bought him about two days before the chorus of Putin puppet!” started right back up again, as if nothing had changed.
S Brennan
From Tues FBook post:
Draft-dodgers on both sides of the aisle agree on the latest false flag operation in Syria; WE MUST HAVE WAR!!!…even if, that means war with Russia. DC’s corporate media monkeys agree on how we must react to the latest false flag operation; WE MUST HAVE WAR!!!…even if it means war with Russia.
Tucker Carlson is the odd man out, but he speaks for me, [as Phil Donahue once did], Tucker thinks risking world war is foolish and wasteful…and I agree. BTW, China is signalling that it will back Russia in Syria…so we really are talking about starting WW III over a false flag operation initiated by Jihadi terrorists backed by the US/Saud/Israel intelligence services.
If the US does what these media pundits & pols prescribe and the Ruskies don’t capitulate, we will have a war that will effect everybody on earth in ways that western countries have not seen in 75 years. Are you ready for that kind of privation?
https://youtu.be/4p9rEuofhoo
S Brennan
BTW, these “gas attacks” have been documented to be false flags. Sadly, the documentation to show these “attacks” are staged is proven to such a degree, that they treated as black comedy by much of the world.
https://scontent.fhio1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30515904_10211956817216383_8269611345064818183_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=78b1f26899254e7c3941466ff31a8eaf&oe=5B727A6E
Bill Hicks
“Perhaps Americans could, in general, learn to mind their own goddamn business?”
I though we’d learned that lesson after Vietnam, which was why the Iraq War was even more of a slap in the face–not just that we were capable of once again engaging in a full scale invasion and occupation of a foreign country that was no threat to us, but that most idiot Americans would go along with it. Our government is indeed deranged, but the beauty of democracy is that a people get the government they so richly deserve. Too bad the rest of the world also has to suffer.
Heliopause
“Even if chemical weapons were used…”
This is an important point. What objectively happened is contested, but even if it’s what the standard narrative tells us there is no coherent argument in law, morality, or common sense for the US to unilaterally launch some cruise missiles as punishment. Not that the US elite consensus for war ever considers these things, because they don’t, it’s purely a projection of power.
atcooper
There’s two changes I’d like to see made on US war making. First, return that power to Congress. The resolution after Vietnam needs to be strengthened so that only Congress can declare (and thus set in motion) war. No more allowing the president to prosecute war without approval for the sixty or ninety days currently allowed. No more relying on the power of the purse (which has turned out to be fairly useless in practice) to restrain war.
The second would be to require the draft again – no exceptions so the very well off cannot easily evade these responsibilities. Places where genuine handicaps would prevent execution of duty need to be extremely limited to prevent gaming.
I’ve additional changes I’d love seen made – gutting the intelligence agencies, and folding the minimum functions needed back into the military – can wait for the above two.
The Stephen Miller Band
Orange Is The New Red White & Blue
Animal Assad, Meet Animal Trump
The Stephen Miller Band
It’s not my Government and it’s certainly not a Democracy and there’s certainly NOTHING Democratic about it despite the Jingoistic Rhetoric to the contrary.
Those who voted, OWN IT, and yes, that includes those who voted for Clinton because we’d be in the same predicament if she was The Sadist In Chief. If everyone stayed home last election in PROTEST, it would have sent a message to the rest of The World that the American Government was Rogue & Illegitimate. Now those who voted must take their Patriotic Poison.
DMC
Does anyone else find it a bit rich that the US Gov clutches its collective pearls over these supposed gas attacks that maybe kill 50 people and never say a word about our good friends the Saudis use of cluster munitions on civilian areas, in total violation of the international ban(which neither are signatory to)? Dead Syrians must be more photogenic than dead Yemenis.
nihil obstet
When I got far enough along in a career to be present when major decisions were made, I was appalled at the practices of those in charge. Those successful in climbing a hierarchy had no concept of the wide consequences of their actions. On the other hand, they were very careful of the narrow consequences. “How will the person over me react this afternoon on hearing what I do? Will I benefit in some other way?” completely drowned out consideration of “What result will this have on the responsibilities I was put in this job to carry out?”
This is particularly insidious when the sense of power and entitlement that increases with higher status becomes a group marker. All the powerful people like force, so they will use more force than anybody else. The benefit is being accepted as a member of the high status group.
A strong, widespread peace movement might have a chance, and there are encouraging signs of some development. My guess is that the way forward is to tie the falling standard of living in the U.S. to the bloated military, to give people a focus for what we want and what to quit doing.
Stirling Newberry
The problem with Ian’s analysis is very simple – it assumes that Assad is reasonable, which is false. Assad wants to prove to his subjects that there is no limit on the torture they will subject themselves to if they continue to revolt. That is why it is so small, the best estimates are small. he wants to prove that he can use illegal weapons, and no one will do anything.
The problem is that no one will do anything, but wants to make it look as if they have “done something”. The result is that the international movement will not, in fact, make it less likely that at some future date Assad will use the same weapons again – which will demand another retaliatory strike. And so on.
There are 2 effective countermeasures: actually, go to war with Syria – which will not happen – and allow Syria as a client state of Russia – which will not happen – especially when the United States spends more than it ought to give it is going to leave puppet states alone. The real problem is that we have a military which is designed to go to war over things such as Syria, but a polity which does not want to go to war over almost anything, and when it does go to war it is over the wrong things entirely. The solution to this is not in Syria, or Iran, or North Korea – but in Washington.
Either go to war, and spend money – or do neither. Right now we want one from column A and one from column B, which is not affordable.
Donald
I am agnostic on who did the latest atrocity. But I would go further back. The US and the Saudis have been supporting “ moderate” rebels. Much if the weapons quickly ended in ISIS or Al Qaeda hands.
But anyway, imagine there was another superpower which pretended to care about Palestinian human rights, so they decided to give moderate Palestinian rebels enough weapons so they could fight the Israelis in equal terms and cause 100,000 deaths in the IDF. Because that is what happened in Syria. How would Israel react? How would any country react? Israel in real life goes nuts over rockets that rarely kill anyone. Under my scenario Gaza would be bombed into rubble. And we would hold the hypothetical superpower in part responsible for fueling a war that caused such massive destruction. In fact, we would probably support Israel all the way.
different clue
Well . . . my comment didn’t make it. Too much bad language? We’ll try it again more nicerly.
The people who voted for Trump were voting for America to mind its own bussiness. They (we) already know about that. The people who voted for Clinton voted for Imperialist Humanitarian Aggression. They cannot be reached. They cannot be reasoned with. They will never change.
They consider “America mind its own bussiness” to be an illegitimate Prime Directive. They consider the “America mind its own bussiness” President to be an illegitimately elected illegitimate President. They own the Intelligence Agencies, the Democratic Party, the Republican Party establishment, the Media, and every other Pillar of Established Power. They are all working to start the Clinton War which I and others-for-Trump voted to prevent.
If anyone has an idea of what levers of power we mere voters-without-power can push or pull or jam or sabatooge in order to prevent the coming World War Clinton which the various Western Governments are deliberately planning with malice aforethough, this thread might be as good a place as any to offer those ideas.
If anyone has done something specific just lately to try and abort the War-Currently-In-Planning, one hopes they also feel free to describe here what they have done.
Some Guy
Came across a link the other day (maybe at NC?) to a 2007 Seymour Hersh article in the New Yorker, “The Redirection”.
The Redirection
Probably old news to many here, but I’d never seen it before and boy did it put the last decade of middle east misadventure (all the events occurring after it was written in 2007) into perspective. If you’ve missed this one, I recommend it.
someofparts
I’m under the impression that the general public in the U.S. has never been gung-ho about intervention abroad. As long as regular people around here have decent jobs and comfortable lives, they have no interest in anything beyond their own homesteads. I think that is why we are so gullible and why the propaganda systems here have to go to such lengths to justify our malign machinations overseas.
Watching the morning news as I write this. Zuckerberg is just … repulsive. Wouldn’t it be great if we could trade him for something? We give you Zuck in exchange for Assange? Yeah, I know, in my dreams. Maybe we could give him to North Korea is they agree to disarm a missle or two? He could have a proper North Korean show trial for crimes against humanity and everybody wins.
John Poynton
I was originally against intervention in Syria and welcomed Parliament’s vote not to get involved. I saw the troubles there as a purely internal matter that did not threaten the international community.
However I was wrong. The Syrian civil war had caused an enormous refugee problem which is affecting the whole of Europe. We most certainly do have an interest, though whether military intervention is the best solution is a very fine judgement.
Ché Pasa
It’s fascinating to watch how quickly narratives congeal. Almost instantly with the issuance of Trump’s threats toward Syria and Russia, a narrative of his lack of agency and capture by the ‘Deep State’ took hold, jettisoning his ‘Disruptor-God/Emperor’ narrative (again) — though it no doubt will come back once war fever subsides. Assuming it does.
This has already happened repeatedly — one day he’s All-Powerful, the next, he’s nothing but a Tool of… well, something.
From reports, Trump’s European partners May and Macron are all in with an attack on Syria, perhaps even to the point of decapitating the Damascus regime leaving yet another power vacuum in the Middle East. Following a pattern we’ve seen over and over again, US warships are emplacing themselves in the Persian Gulf and off the Mediterranean coast of Syria the better to rain (further) death and destruction on the long-suffering Syrian people.
Once these preps get to a certain point, it is virtually impossible to call them off. Clearly, the preparations for massive intervention in Syria have been underway for a good long time, and they were by no means stopped by the advent of Trump in the White House. In fact, he “unleashed” his generals and told them to do as they wilt to “get rid of ISIS” — which has meant the utter destruction of city after city in Syria and Iraq, the displacement of millions, and the death of tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of civilians in a campaign of annihilation. This has all been going on throughout the last two years without let up, but it significantly intensified after January of last year. The death and destruction in Syria (and many other places) is all but total as it is.
So now to complete the task? Apparently. Russia says “No.” Trump blinks. His generals, however, continue to do as they wilt.
For all their preening, Our Rulers simply aren’t very bright.
Stirling Newberry
Moral: even the big people realize time is running out:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/04/syria-trump-intervention-moral-philosophy/557750/
Bill Hicks
@Stephen Miller Band
Did you emigrate? Did you renounce your citizenship? Are you really in prison for having tried to take effective action? If not, then this really is “your government.” Mine too, I’m not getting on my high horse. As Americans we all bear responsibility, and yes we will all get exactly what it was we collectively voted for.
BlizzardOfOzzz
Left wingers running interference for the perpetual war have a lot to answer for. Even if you think these gas attacks aren’t obviously fake (they are), after Iraq the USG has zero credibility. All their claims should be laughed off until they provide hard evidence.
different clue
If there is anyone who genuinely wants to reduce further decay and disorder and ongoing loss of life in Syria, here is something they could ask the US and its Western partners to do. They could ask the US and the Western partners to switch sides in Syria. They could ask the US and the Western partners to give their total and all-out support to the Coalition Of Lawful Authority (also known as the ” R + 6″) in Syria so that it can wipe the jihadi rebellion out of existence and so that it can suppress all traces of support for that rebellion. It can withdraw all traces of its current support to the Global Axis of Jihad, and the Cannibal Liver-Eating Jihadis ( the CLEJ) which the US and its partners in the Global Axis of Jihad currently support in Syria.
Things go better with COLA.
NR
The gas attacks are fake? That’s some Alex Jones-level conspiracy stuff there. Look here: http://undocs.org/S/2017/904 The UN found that not only had Syria used Sarin gas via airstrike, but that also the Syrian had never really turned in all of their Sarin precursors.
Scientists with decades of experience and who have previously called out bullshit claims are pointing very clearly at Syria and saying that what is happening here is not bullshit.
Doug Colwell
Stirling Newberry, you say Assad wants to prove to his subjects that there is no limit on the torture they will subject themselves to if they continue to revolt. This important information is new to me. I looked, but cannot find cannot find any quotes or documentation for this and you forgot to provide a link or source. We are supposed to provide proof when we pursue an aggressive war. I know people who are opposed to our intervention in Syria but I believe if I explain his thinking about there being no limit to torture they will understand that Assad must go. But without evidence they might think me a fool.
different clue
@John Poynton,
I think your feeling about what was best at the start was/is correct and would have produced the better outcome if followed. The problem is that our Overclass Rulers DID intervene. They intervened on the side of the Global Axis of Jihad. The DC FedRegime gave all the support it could figure out how to give to all the little pet jihadis belonging to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, etc. . . . as well as giving all possible support to the various as Qaeda groups, ISIS ( till Russia exposed the reality of the DC FedRegime’s support for ISIS by bombing-for-real the petroleum-ratlines from ISIStan to Turkey and showing how it is done for real).
If the DC FedRegime and the Global Axis of Jihad had given Syria a total pass on the long-term GAJ program for forced-jihadification of country after country, the legitimate government of the Syrian Arab Republic under its legitimate President Bashar al-Assad would have crushed and exterminated the CLEJ rebellion fast and hard. There would have been far fewer refugees.
And what of the future? Well, as long as the DC FedRegime and the UK and France continue supporting the Global Axis of Jihad and the Cannibal Liver-Eating Jihadis in Syria in every possible way they can figure out how to keep supporting the forced jihadification program, the war will keep dragging on and more and more refugees will be produced.
Anyway, a lot of the refugee problem in Europe is coming through Libya and has been coming through Libya ever since the Head Strongman In Charge was toppled. Now and for the foreseeable future, Libya will remain the Hobbesian Nightmare of Hillary Clinton’s fondest dreams, and the refugees will just keep coming and coming and coming. (By the way, in past columns our host has described how the IMF and the Market Stalinists re-impoverished Africa and destroyed the economy and future of numerous African societies, thereby creating a huge ongoing refugee-push right there.)
metamars
I’m with Alex Jones on this, minus his F-bombs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wug9BhSshFU
Even if Trump felt entitled to punish Syria for the alleged use of chemical weapons, contrary to Candidate Trump that millions voted for, but aren’t getting (enough of), international law dictates a process involving the OPCW. Trump & ‘allies’ attacked before the OPCW could even reach Douma.
The rush towards war, especially when looked at through the lens of the rush to judgement about the Skripal poisoning case by the British government (as well as the subsequent hiding of the Skripals) tells me all I need to know about who are the most likely candidates for evil-doing. It ain’t Assad, and it ain’t Putin.
Here’s another clue: http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12171238@egNews
“Today, there are other evidences at the disposal of the Russian military department, which testify to the direct participation of Great Britain in organizing this provocation in the Eastern Ghouta.
The Russian party knows for certain that from April 3 to 6, representatives of the so-called White Helmets were influenced by London for the speedy implementation of the provocation prepared in advance.
The White Helmets received information that Jaysh al-Islam militants were to conduct a series of powerful artillery shelling of Damascus on April 3 to 6.
This will promote a response from the government troops, which the White Helmets’ representatives will have to use to carry out provocations with alleged chemical weapons”
jrkrideau
@ realitychecker
Here is a simple guide to some of the opposition groups in Syria a year ago January. https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/01/idlib-rebel-split-crossroads-syrian-opposition-170131134053716.html
Stirling Newberry
Doug:
Sorry, but your post is out of bounds.
different clue
Here is a little newspaper article featuring an American who “gets it”.
https://i.imgur.com/ojQJh6o.jpg
different clue
@Doug Colwell,
I suppose you could ask Stirling Newberry what he thinks is “out of bounds” about your question . . . . just to see if you get any more of a better answer to that than what you got to your question itself.
Its a method Stirling Newberry has for avoiding questions. I once asked him about two years ago or so just why he wrote that Cambodia had a choice about being bombed or not by Richard Nixon during the Nixon Bombing of Cambodia. He never even responded. At least you got a “response”, however sniffy and unhelpful it may be.
realitychecker
@ jrkrideau
Good one lol. 🙂
We are a disappointingly binary people here in America, unfortunately. We have too little ‘crossroads of the world’ experience to rise above our binary naivete, IMO.
A nation’s got to know its limitations (h/t Dirty Harry, Magnum Force lol.)
Doug Colwell
Stirling, I expect you’re right. Evidence and due process are a thing of the past it seems. I’ve failed to keep up with the times.
different clue
Colonel Lang’s blog Sic Semper Tyrannis has spent the last few days following events in, around and over Syria in some detail. Those posts are worth reading and thinking about. Some of the comments are equally good as well. Here is a copy-pasted comment addressing the issue of current realtime in-the-now support by the DC FedRegime FOR the Cannibal Liver-Eating Jihadis.
” Jeff Martin • 5 hours ago
From Elijah Magnier:
Sources in Damascus explain that the Syrian Army and its allies, supported by Russia, were carrying out a large attack on rural Idlib and had reached Abu al-Duhur airport when, all of a sudden, the military operation stopped. The entire spearhead force was moved to Ghouta. What happened?
Russia had informed the Syrian leadership of a large gathering of forces at Al-Tanf US-occupied military base on the Syrian-Iraqi borders, where tens of thousands of US proxies have received continuous military training. The Russians identified unusual military movements and understood that the US was preparing to push Syrian proxy forces to reach eastern Ghouta, linking itself with around 30,000 jihadists in Ghouta itself. This attack was planned to take place simultaneously with a diversion from Daraa, southern Syria, attacking south of Damascus so as to deceive the Syrian army and its allies into leaving smaller forces around the capital.
The US plan – said the sources – consisted in supporting its proxies and the Ghouta jihadists to reach Damascus and take full control of it. But the shifting of the military operation from rural Idlib to Ghouta spoiled the US plan to impose on Russia an enforced stay in Lattakia and Tartous confined to a limited place, and to finally change the Syrian regime. This “genius’s plan” would have spoiled all Russia’s efforts deployed through almost three years of heavy involvement in the war in Syria, and would have given the US the upper hand , just at the moment when Moscow and the Syrian Army were about to end the war, with only few more pockets left to liberate.
Russia’s hit in Ghouta broke the US plan into pieces, and imposed the withdrawal of tens of thousands of militants from Ghouta along with their families, to the north of Syria. The capital is now much safer, with the remaining area south of Damascus occupied by Al-Qaeda and the “Islamic State” group (ISIS) in Yarmouk camp and al-Hajar al-Aswad…
Mattis accepted “an honourable strike” to save his boss’s inexperienced face…
Turkish President Erdogan expressed his support and later satisfaction with the US strikes on Syria. Russia answered by asking him to deliver the city of Afrin to the Syrian government.”
I also wish to remind people that the DC FedRegime is not the only governmental member of the Global Axis of Jihad. Nor is “America” the only “country” that does not know how to mind its own bussiness. Some of these SST posts have discussed details of how the UK gov is very involved in pro-jihadi activities in Syria as well as anti-Russian provocations within Britain and elsewhere. Some reference is also made to the involvement of France’s Macron in these efforts. SST is trialing a new acronym, which I hope enters the language. That acronym is FUKUS . . . which stands for France United Kingdom United States. FUKUS.
That acronym would be part of a very good article which very much deserves to be written by somebody. All I can think of is a title, which I offer here for anyone’s random consideration.
FUKUS and the Global Axis of Jihad.