Trump Covid Thread

We don’t know, and we won’t know how he really is doing. Unless something dramatic and unconcealable happens.

This administration is bad at a lot of things, but they’re really, really good at gaslighting. The chirpy public reports and the sotto-voce dire reports are probably meant to mis-direct both his supporters and his enemies.

We’re just going to have to apply some domestic kremlinology. How often does he communicate? Does it sound like him? How does he physically look? What are his doctors saying? What are they leaving out? Best we can do.

If he does fully recover, COVID will explode in the US even more than it has. He is yet to publicly recommend mask-wearing.

Just take it day by day. And do your best to protect yourself from this virus. Our leadership has told us that we’re on our own.

Just in case it was missed , the CDC did acknowledge COVID airborne transmission:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html

The CDC guidance came out around the same time the President went to Walter Reed.

Thete is nothing ground breaking in the report but it’s good to see this update.

Just remember that if you are inside with others proper ventilation and air circulation is important. And if indoors the 6 foot rule isn’t any guarantee of safety.

The consensus is the Trump is playing doctor himself. I highly recommend this post and the comments on it. A bunch of people who do drug design at pharmaceutical companies. Just keep in mind that just because they work for evil companies that doesn’t make them evil.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/10/05/the-presidents-coronavirus-treatment

I actually heard a throw-away comment yesterday that the only way out of the situation at the White House — thanks to it being a superspreader site with at least one active case on the premises currently — is to abandon it and tear it down.

It may come to that.

“to abandon it and tear it down” – Ché Pasa

Imagine the Whitehouse covered in a giant fumigation tent.

That would be a perfect way to end 2020.

Bill H, it’s all about odds and probabilities. What kind of things lower exposure? And that’s not just absolute but what lowers the viral load we are exposed to.

For a quick briefer on dexamethasone flip over to Kevin Drum at Mother Jones, he’s been taking regular doses for years and somewhat regularly talks about it, calling it “The evil dex.”

Here’s his latest: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2020/10/a-quickie-comment-on-dexamethasone/

“…cloth masks are useless…”

Whatever the Very Stable but Humble Genius / Handsome Supermodel / Greatest Baseball Player in New York is saying, his groupies faithfully echo.

A few days ago I was ambushed by a Southern Relative who flatly declared masks cause halitosis. He informed me masks are responsible for the surge of dental problems through the US. I learned from this person that Covid was just another disease which nearly everybody gets, then quickly recovers from. It is such a trivial thing he doesn’t bother wearing a mask when visiting his frail and elderly mother. (the latter from his own mouth while I’m sitting there stunned)

More about the multi-talented & very, very, very intelligent person who is smarter than everybody else put together.

“I build the best buildings.” “Nobody builds walls better than me.” “I created maybe the greatest brand.” “Trump Steaks are the world’s greatest steaks.” “I have the best [golf] courses in the world.” “My Twitter has become so powerful that I can actually make my enemies tell the truth.” “I know all about knives and belt buckles.” “And I know more about wedges than any human being that’s ever lived.” “I know more about [campaign] contributions than anybody.” “Nobody has better toys than I do.” “Nobody loves the Bible better than I do.” “I’m the king of debt. I understand debt better than probably anybody.” “Nobody knows more about debt than I do.” “I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world. Nobody knows more about taxes.” “Nobody knows more about taxes than I do — and income than I do.” “I know the details of taxes better than anybody. Better than the greatest C.P.A.” “Nobody even understands it but me. It’s called devaluation.” “Nobody knows more about trade than me.” “I’m really a great negotiator. I know how to negotiate.” “Deals are my art form. I like making deals, preferably big deals.” “Nobody knows banking better than I do” “I understand money better than anybody.” “I know the details of health care better than most, better than most.” “I know more about the big bills than any president that’s ever been in office.” “I know the H1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me.” “I know the best people.” “I know the smartest negotiators in the world. I know the good ones. I know the bad ones. I know the overrated ones.” “I’m really good at war.” “I know more about ISIS than the generals do. Believe me.” “Nobody would be tougher on ISIS than Donald Trump.” “Nobody is bigger or better at the military than I am.” “I know more about offense and defense than they will ever understand.” “There’s nobody that understands the horror of nuclear better than me.” “Nobody is fighting for the veterans like I’m fighting for the veterans.” “Nobody’s better to people with disabilities than me.” “There’s nobody more pro-Israel than I am.” “Nobody knows jobs like I do!” “Nobody knows politicians better than I do.” “Nobody knows the game better than I do.” “Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it.” “Nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump.” “I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth.” “Nobody’s ever had crowds like [I’ve] had.” “Nobody can do it like me. Nobody. Nobody can do it like me, honestly.” “Nobody is stronger than me.” “It’s all because of me.” “I know words. I have the best words.”

The Trumpies here are always asserting this fabulous person also knows more about Pharmaceutical and Medical issues than any of the pretenders with advanced degrees in “science”.

Example: how many extended lectures have we seen here about the wonders of hydroxychloroquine?

Now we have the Orange POTUS hyping Covid as a fountain of youth – a way to feel 20 years younger.

How long will it be before that Southern Relative of mine is telling me Covid is actually a good and positive thing?

Trump is all “Watch what I do, not what I really do” like some bad magician who doesn’t care that they’re a bad magician. Nothing matters as long as there’s paying children to act all amazed.

The Trump Family Grifters will do anything to preserve their grifting. Yet peasantry needn’t be in their future. Wouldn’t reality TV provide them a living long after the debts come due?

Hope lies in their victims. A critical mass of former supplicants ruined by firing, humiliation, disease and death is surely (but IMO far too slowly), peeling away the faithful loyal.

There’s probably a fully staffed hospital facility in the White House.

If they could set one up for Hilary in Chelsea’s apartment, then they can surely do the same in the White House for Trump.

https://nypost.com/2016/09/12/clinton-skips-out-on-emergency-room-during-health-episode/

For them what don’t know —

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb

‘A neutron bomb, officially defined as a type of enhanced radiation weapon (ERW), is a low yield thermonuclear weapon designed to maximize lethal neutron radiation in the immediate vicinity of the blast while minimizing the physical power of the blast itself.’

Having been hospitalized almost died from sepsis [what actually kills most Covid-19 patients] two years ago and having been saved by a combination that included steroids I can not see what the fuss is about.

Yes, it’s another opportunity for the haters of all things Trump to perform their virtue signalling strut, but really, do Trump haters need an excuse? For many commenters here “spitting on the ground every time Trump’s name gets mentioned” [or not mentioned] is a ritual that seems to require an unlimited number of daily public supplications.

Anyway, back to the subject, while not an “expert”, like some of the posters above, I did go through the actual experience of sepsis and while steroids did make me feel slightly better, the damage to all my internal organs kept me from doing any cartwheels or making plans for any neocolonial regime change war, which seemed to afflict Clinton-Albright/Bush-Cheney/Obama-Hillary-Biden sans steroids.

Just last week, many here said Trump was pulling a Jussie Smollett, FAKING IT, this week it’s TRUMP’S HIGH ON STEROIDS! Why not just combine the two stories? TRUMP IS FAKING IT TO GET STEROIDS !!! yeah..yeah..that’s the story! YES! Let’s all strut our VIRTUE by serving up yet another unsubstantiated crock of hate Trump bullshit.

Just like the hippies of the ’60s, all antiwar until past the draft age and then…and then, send in the working class to fight a war on the border of Russia, that’ll teach Putin, that’ll show that elitist draft-dodgers and the children of elitist draft-dodgers mean business!

“Fred pretended to work.” Lime father, like son.

Joint chiefs of staff are also quarantining after Coast Guard head tests positive.

Walter Reed has staff and facilities that the White House doesn’t have. Trump said he really got the coronavirus now. Well yes, he tests positive but everything he does shows he doesn’t understand it at all. No contact tracing. Delay in going to Walter Reed. SUVing around Walter Reed. No mask going back to White House. Tweets downplaying virus. Still planning to debate. No awareness of the 200,000 Americans dead from the virus and his responsibility for that.

It should be very instructive to note that even though Trump has been pushing hydroxychloroquine as a COVID treatment to the rubes that follow him for months, when he got sick with the virus himself, he didn’t take it and instead got a special antiviral cocktail that’s not available to the public. That right there should tell you all you need to know about it (of course, anybody stupid enough to take medical advice from Donald Trump will likely have this lesson sail right over their head, but what can you do?)

Something I don’t usually do: offer a link to the generally wretched LGM site.

Strange — “grandma should die so Timmy can sit at the bar at Hooter’s on Sunday” seemed like a winning message to appeal to the most likely voters, not sure what went wrong.

Old people have finally noticed how they are the sacrificial lambs for the Trumpies. They were all in with him in 2016, but no longer. Very probably a landslide at the Presidential level, but I have no idea if this will carry over with the Congress. Even if it does, I’ve great confidence the Democrats will piss away any advantage they get as soon as they possibly can. Just as they did after the 2008 election.

One more thing: Trump’s bullying of his doctors may yet have some serious consequences for him.

Donald Trump’s photo op on the Truman Balcony following his return to the White House with COVID-19 is one of the most disturbing, absorbing, foreign images I can recall.

White House staffers are crazy to still be there, but my sympathies are for the ordinary employees for whom this is their job site. Hopefully THEY aren’t being bullied to go around maskless. In the unlikely event I was either sort, the first time the Orange POTUS made a smartass remark about my mask, I’d put the quote in my resignation letter – a thing to be written within five minutes of the event.

https://www.ianwelsh.net/trump-covid-thread/#comment-118224

The back flips and gymnastics needed to defend their Trump love in the time of Covid …

If you’re a tRump Kisser, you do what must be done. Lawyer strategy:

“If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have neither the law nor the facts, yell a lot and pound on the table”.

Yelling a lot about “haters” is obviously the thing to do, for it’s impossible to defend Trump any other way.

Trump: It’s Actually Good I Contracted the Coronavirus

To the untrained eye, the fact that the president contracted a debilitating virus that will degrade his physical and mental functioning, and might well kill him, seems … bad. But to the cult of Donald Trump, presidential failings do not exist. If there appears to be bad news, one of two responses are available. The first is to dismiss the bad news as a sinister plot against Trump. (The news of Trump’s misconduct is a leak, a witch hunt, or a hoax — evidence of the perfidy of the deep state or the fake news, and certainly not an indication of misconduct by Trump.) The second option is to redefine the bad news as actually good.

Author Chait could have have added to the ‘dismissal’ list the preferred technique used here – damning irrational Trump Haters who blind themselves to his endless list of shining virtues. Why else aren’t we Haters thrilled by the prospects of a high-intensity UV colonoscopy – or the chance to Gargle With Bleach.™

Whatever else we may call President Trump, we can certainly in all fairness call him the Typhoid MAGA corona-spreader in Chief. He will leave a trail of super-spreader events behind him wherever he goes until his body is cleared of shedable virus.

People who want to enhance their survival chances should try avoiding venues frequented by sticky masses of Typhoid MAGAtard corona-spreading anti-maskers as much as possible.

Which approach is better? Mask up and practice Safe Six? Or go maskless and breathe it raw and spread it around to show MAGA pride? Which approach is better? Let Darwin decide.

Via Naked Capitalism:

Now, when we at WHGS first heard the sad news of President Trump’s positive COVID test, once again we had faith and prayed, yet we knew our President would find a way to knockout COVID in early rounds of this battle. President Trump, as you know, is a fan of boxing, and the new coin design features more than a hint of superhero qualities in history’s most fascinating president. President Trump, whether you are in his corner or not, is a sui generis—a one-of-a-kind, bigger than life, singular energetic force. President Trump’s energy fills not merely a room, not merely a stadium, but fills—more like occupies—a mythological space in our modern, post-modern, or whatever we call this New Era in which we live, perhaps, let’s call it the Post-COVID Era. President Trump is a force and like it or not, hugely powerful forces hugely attract and also hugely repel – one reason for bifurcation of human emotions regarding our most unique pro-American President. President Trump’s defeat of COVID is a symbol for each of us that COVID can be beaten, not always, sadly, but more often than the fear of COVID that is relentlessly pounded into us each minute of each hour of each day by many media outlets. President Trump’s defeat of COVID is iconic, universal, heroic, for, indeed, in action, President Trump embraced experimental approaches for which he has been derided by anti-Trump media outlets such as CNN. Be bold in fighting COVID, do not cower to COVID, do not allow media messages to condition you to fear our world—this may be the symbol of President Trump’s defeat of COVID. Our American leaders must be strong, for the world is at once beautiful and cruel, and it is against the cruelty of the world that an American leader must be strong. Like it or not, President Donald J. Trump is strong to a mythic level; hence, my final coin seeks to convey the mythic core strengths of President Donald J. Trump. The design is intentionally concealed until its release.

Despite the “pig in a poke” aspect of this, the new coin will be a splendid thing to own for both the true tRump Kissers and the Paid RNC Trolls. Something to cherish forever. The link title is to another one in the series, but it seems to be equally appropriate.

Number 7: GENIUS MAKES ITS OWN RULES

“You’re talking to someone who thinks that the entire medical and scientific community is lying and Donald Trump is telling the truth. I’d call him a troll, but unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who genuinely believe the things he does.” NR

Yes, even assuming the post was in good faith I know the beliefs are too entrenched for any argument or line of questioning to work.

What really irks me with anti-maskers is the person advocating that you take additional risk isn’t ever going to suffer your specific consequences.

You know the dynamic where you get sick and then get fired is still in place even in this pandemic. (Hell especially in this pandemic.)

So even if you survive the disease you could easily be out of work. And God only knows the downward spiral that would lead to for you and those you care about.

Glass Hammer,
This is what the Surgeon General said in March:

“You can increase your risk of getting it by wearing a mask if you are not a health care provider,” Adams said. “Folks who don’t know how to wear them properly tend to touch their faces a lot and actually can increase the spread of coronavirus,” he added.

Adams’ comments Monday reiterate his blaring tweet from the weekend, urging people to “STOP BUYING MASKS.” He said that they were “NOT effective” to the general public and noted that the increased demand in masks puts medical professionals at risk.

Got it? Wearing a mask if you’re not a trained pro can 1) increase your risk of catching a virus, 2) increase its spread.

The same guy later said he changed his mind, “because the science changed”. But he wasn’t talking about science in the quote above, he was talking about improper usage. Lies on top of lies. These are the people you not only persist n trusting, but insist on their general trustworthiness.

Meanwhile Blizz, there was recently one helluva unmasked pool party in Wuhan.

“Got it? Wearing a mask if you’re not a trained pro can 1) increase your risk of catching a virus, 2) increase its spread.” – BlizzardOfOzzz

Holy hell, no one needs to tell you to avoid touching your face (you should have been taught that as a child) and securing a mask to your face can be demonstrated via video, diagram, or simple instructions. The Surgeon General could give you sufficient instruction in just a few minutes.

Also if you touch your face after touching other surfaces you are failing yet another medical guideline.

See this is why risk mitigation has layers to it.

“But he wasn’t talking about science in the quote above, he was talking about improper usage.” – BlizzardOfOzzz

Or… based on the science he weighed the danger of improper usage against the danger of no mask and concluded that even with improper useage the mask was still a better option.

And for the record I don’t invest all my decisions on one source when it’s important. When it’s important I look at multiple sources for a consensus.

So again I see a plurality of medical professionals across nations and across time say “Masks help you so use one.”

Eddie Van Halen smoked his cigarettes inside his mask, proving that masks cause cancer.

I once debated with a guy who claimed that since Russian liberals tolerated the evils of the terroristic Bolsheviks, that liberals were evil.

I said no, the Russian liberals were foolish and weak. Unchecked power is a multiplier. It always unleashes more of whatever those now-powerful did while acquiring power. If they were terrorists, they’ll terrorize the entire population once in power. If they were grifters, they’ll grift the entire population once in power. I’m not sure what scientists would do, but I think our children would have to take twice the science classes and maybe even wear lab coats to school.

Choose wisely people.

GlassHammer, I don’t know where you are finding this “consensus”, let alone “across all places and times”. That is not what I’ve seen. If anything I would assume the consensus what these people said reflexively, before everyone lost their minds, as in the quote from the Surgeon General. But then, since they clearly lie for expedience, who could say?

But if we are now claiming that everyone can in fact follow the protocols of trained nurses, in every public space at all times (and I think you know it is more involved than just “not touching your face”, which itself is a taller ask than you make out) … this is another thing, is it not? Already the whole “it doesn’t cost anything” is quickly losing its sheen. That does seem to be the claim, though. My four year old’s preschool decided they would be constantly cleaning every surface with bleach — which of course they abandoned after one day, because it’s insane. We all still have to pretend though, of course (“living by lies”, again).

On Trump saying to not negotiate with Congressional Democrats:

This was an idiotic political move by Trump. Yet another unforced error. Kind of reminds me when Trump said he was going for permanent cuts to the payroll tax, but would protect Social Security. Of course, he didn’t say how he would accomplish this miracle, other than to say “We’ll be paying into Social Security through the general fund.”

Of course, nobody put any trust in this utterance. Kudlow walked it back a day or two later.

I predict Trump will walk this back, and claim that he was just trying to pressure Pelosi. This will not impress anybody, and so Trump will fall another point or two behind Joe Biden. A month before the election!

America needs a better Trump than Trump. By that I mean, somebody who is a) more of a populist than Trump has turned out to be and b) a better politician. He’s still preferable to Biden, but that’s like saying he’s better than Hillary Clinton.

Unfortunately, Trump never seemed to wrap his mind around just how lucky, and unskilled, a politician he was. Even if he miraculously wins, he’s not going to have long coattails. So, he may end having to negotiate with both Pelosi and Schumer.

“You know the dynamic where you get sick and then get fired is still in place even in this pandemic. (Hell especially in this pandemic.)” – This is true. I talk to dozens of unemployed people per week, and can confirm this happens. More commonly, people are canned or quit because the precautions their employers take against COVID-19 are inadequate.

I’ll also note that the orange king appears to be losing Metamars, which isn’t something I thought I’d see happen. Maybe it was his turning on hydroxychloraquine as a bunch of quack nonsense, and not taking it after recommending it to his worshipers?

Random thoughts: Trump is old, sick, and faces the prospect of getting smashed in the upcoming election. A LOSER who is possibly still on mind-altering drugs.

For a fair while I’ve thought he has destroyed his own brand. The man is awash in debt, and I can’t imagine who would consider bailing him out. Make that Old, Sick, and (by his standards) Poor.

Hope I’m wrong about this, but coming events may force a change in the time a new President is sworn in. I’m no historian, but a quick lookup showed that Lincoln had to watch Buchanan putz around until March 4. During that time momentum towards a US Civil War became unstoppable. At some point the date was changed, and Kennedy was sworn in January 20. We may need to change that yet again to the last week of November.

Does anybody expect Trump to be anything except a Sore Loser? Many years of extremely lazy Congresses have gifted Presidents far too many powers. He might veto ANY new Covid bill. He might shut down the Government the same way. (And some other things I won’t mention in print.)

Congressional leaders missed a self-imposed deadline on Friday to strike an agreement on legislation that would keep the government open through Dec. 11, with House Democrats now hoping to file the stopgap spending bill by Monday.

An article I found from 2017 is quite out of date except for the title and subtitle:

WHY A LAME-DUCK TRUMP IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS
Trump’s domestic policy agenda may have collapsed. His war powers, however, are almost unlimited.

The rightwingnuts pretend to worry about Iran, but what about a sick old man who is totally depressed, has too much power, and with access to nukes? Not at all an encouraging prospect.

I believe one reason Trump took the Republican nomination back in ’16 is the incredible amount of media coverage he received across the board by all of the media that thought he was a buffoon who grabbed lots of eyeballs and who would never receive the nomination.

Last night I realized that I can’t stop seeing/hearing/thinking Trump. Just in the past week: taxes, debate, and now covid19. Each monstrous event suppresses the prior monstrous event. But taken as a whole Trump absolutely dominates the media.

Will these insane media levels in response to an insane President drive his base to vote? Or in some other way alter the election and surprise us?

@NRG

“I’ll also note that the orange king appears to be losing Metamars, which isn’t something I thought I’d see happen.”

Following Ben Shapiro, I’ve always been for good Trump, and against bad Trump. If you check out my vanity sub-reddit, /r/the_donald_goodandbad, you’ll quickly see that there are more (BAD TRUMP) entries than (GOOD TRUMP) entries.

I still hope he beats the pants off of Biden, because the Democrats are significantly more evil than the Republicans. Over 3 months of no criticism of the violence supposedly ascribed to protesting police violence, until the polls tightened. Also, as becomes ever more obvious, the Democrats helped run a phoney Russiagate smear operation against candidate Trump and President Trump. I call that treason, though I don’t know that it rises to the that level, legally. Anybody with half a brain knows that Flynn was entrapped, but his life is still being ruined because he’s on the wrong side. The Democrats care nothing about the rule of law. The Republicans are willing to impoverish us, but are basically content to just write plutocratic laws (and not enforce good laws, like anti-trust laws.) They’re mostly not interested in throwing us little people in jail, though they were far more guilty pushing for draconian anti-drug laws.

“Maybe it was his turning on hydroxychloraquine as a bunch of quack nonsense, and not taking it after recommending it to his worshipers?”

I’m not aware that Trump has ever “turned” on hydroxychloroquine. He didn’t use it in his recent hospital stay, apparently deferring to his medical team, which isn’t exactly a stupid thing to do, especially considering he can’t order doctors to do anything. (Though everything I’ve read/heard about remdesevir (basically from Chris Martenson) points to it being inferior to hydroxychloroquine, under optimal application scenarios; and not having any really strong evidence.)

Hydroxychloroquine is hardly “quack nonsense”. If you’re interested in the science, see the aggregation website c19study.com. Unfortunately, sermo.com stopped polling for most effective covid-19 treatments by physicians from around the world. But, for a while, it was top-rated.

I take it you’re not a physician who treats covid patients…..

Looking over Trump’s released health info, he was taking Zinc without an Ionophore (HCQ, Quercin, or Ivermectin).

So he got a mild case. Whether it was deliberate or not, I’ll leave up to you to decide.

But above all wear a mask. It lowers your viral load and prevents secondary infections like the flu. Take Zinc with an Ionophore, and add Vit D and C.

Overall Trump’s base is solid and will show up, the Democratic Base is fracturing. Polls keep oversampling College Students, the bulk of whom won’t show up and vote.

@Thomas P Golladay

Do you have any information on what research shows about mask wearing versus phase of epidemic? My own pet theory is that masks help a lot early in an epidemic, and after what I call herd immunity (= group robustness against symptomatic cases; NOT simply high seroprevalence of antibodies), they don’t help. Well, they may help extremely fragile individuals who somehow didn’t get significant exposure when everybody else was getting it. My expectation is that it’s not justified to do widespread mask wearing, to society as a whole, when this point is reached.

I’ve heard wildly different things about what the science says. According to Denis Rancourt, RCT’s of mask wearing show little, or no, benefit. (He basically dismisses non-RCT experiments.) I’ve only heard a 15 minute talk by him, I think an extract from his exchange/debate with Dr. David Kyle Johnson, @ “(FULL) Digi-Debates. The Face Mask Debate” on youtube.

I don’t even know how you begin to do an RCT with humans. How can anybody not know if they’re wearing a mask, or not? Is there such a thing as a fake mask, which is guaranteed not to work?

OTOH, Chris Martenson has long maintained that they’re essential. He recently weighed in with a youtube program “Be Smart Wear a Mask”, he goes into details about inoculatum, and data from animal studies about various levels of loads of virus exposure. From his talk, it’s surely better to get a lower load of a virus, as compared to, say, and LD50 dose (a lethal dose that kills 50% of a population). Imagine if you’re on the short end of the 50%….

However, Martenson doesn’t go into the net effect of repeated, non-toxic exposures to the virus (does this continually ramp up immunity, or not? Analogous to booster shots of vaccines. And what would be the effect on the viral shedding of these individuals?). In other words, what is happening to the robust part of the population, as the epidemic proceeds, and then recedes? His talk, and the research discussed by somebody named Ghandi, seem to only deal with a single exposure.

Furthermore, if it’s the case that repeated, non-toxic doses of virus increase immune robustness, while decreasing viral shedding, it’s an easy guess that masks are counter-productive at some point during the “receding” part of the epidemic. Why? Because the exposure to the inoculatum is too LOW to derive further benefits from such exposure. Hence, if we somehow integrate the net exposure to the public to inoculatum over a period of weeks or months, it will be higher in this over-protective scenario.

This is related, methinks, to the idea that it was a big mistake to not let small children go to school, and spread the virus amongst themselves. They would have done so asymptomatically, and thus made their contribution to herd immunity that much sooner. Because of the school lockdowns, American children pose more of a threat to American oldsters than Swedish children pose to Swedish oldsters.

One can imaging a scenario where a study reports very little benefit or loss to wearing masks; but the granular data would show benefit early on, changing to no loss/gain, changing to detriment, as the epidemic proceeds.

As loathsome as I find the orange turd blossom, Trump literally has been walking on water his entire life. He’s a malevolent version of Chauncey Gardner. In fact, Chauncey was more skilled and valuable than Trump considering Chauncey knew how to garden. Trump can’t even do that, has no skills period and no value and is in fact less than a zero, yet he lives like royalty. It says something about how f*cked up this system is. Omelas is a cruel joke. A house of horrors. Considering that, and considering Trump’s October Surprize Miracle of stomping COVFEFE-19, it’s not only plausible, but highly probable, Trump will continue to walk on water and “win” reelection in November. Six million Americans will perish from COVFEFE-19 during his second term and the stock market will soar to 40,000. Life Is Good.

Hey Rachel, do you wish you never wished Fat Donny well, you hypocrite? Of course you have no regrets. Hypocrites never do. Trump doesn’t regret either. Nothing. Anything. Ever. You and Trump have more in common than you care to acknowledge and admit.

https://www.advocate.com/media/2020/10/02/rachel-maddow-roasted-tweeting-god-bless-president

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bow1ZJTV4L4

Guys, you seem stuck on what Belloc identified a century ago as the modern/materialist heresy. Christ made a lot of promises to those who would follow him, but an end to suffering and death in this life was not among them. It should almost go without saying that not just Christianity, but every religion and philosophy of life, has always recognized suffering and death as part of the human condition. It was only in very recent times that technological progress started seducing people into thinking that suffering and death could be eliminated.

Like Prosperity Gospel, it totally misses the point.

I respect the kind of Christianity which helps discipline people like Russell Wilson or alcoholics anonymous into success with whatever life missions or tribulations they encounter. This kind seems to have more personally responsible members and benefit for the rest of society.

I disrespect the kind of Christianity which gives out cash prizes and miracle presidents, not necessarily for supplicating correctly, but for belonging to the right team. This kind seems full of people who can rationalize anything while reasoning quite poorly.

Is the difference between these two a simple matter of intelligence? Is the degree of self-awareness and insight the difference?

“Is the difference between these two a simple matter of intelligence? Is the degree of self-awareness and insight the difference?” – Willy

No the diffetences comes from something like:
-The Denomination/Sect
-The Pastor
-The Congregation
-The Family
-The Person

And how those things are nested within time, space, and culture matters.

You have to keep in mind that Christianity was hopelessly fractured in the U.S. by the great issues of the 19th century. It never regained it’s full force after that.

Pence is the best evidence I have seen that cardboard doesn’t get Covid. He will have to defend Trump’s record tonight so he will be lying his head off and changing the subject as often as he can.

BTW Amy Coney Barrett had Covid in the summer. So is unlikely to get it again.

@GlassHammer

You are aware that Christianity is in steep decline in America? I’ve tried reminding religious wingnuts about the story of Francoist Spain, that once proud inquisator/conquistador nation with all the awesome cathedrals. After 40 years of Franco’s best efforts, it’s just another secular center-left country with few citizens left placing Jesus at the forefront of their lives.

My religious opinions are obviously highly biased. I’m descended from a successful protestant minister, whose own children and grandchildren numbering in the many dozens, mostly chose a life of Christian Service. As a kid in the bible belt midwest I remember the non-partisan happy times of my childhood, back when America Was Great and everybody around me was a salt-of-the-earth Christian. The only hard core partisan I knew was my disagreeable cousin who hated Republicans because they defeated her beloved Hubert.

Today she’s a staunch neoliberal, a known expert at supply chain offshoring. My closest minister uncle soldiers on depressed over the bizarre Randian selfishness of his small town fellows and all the tent towns in his local city. My sister and husband, mindless Reagan/Bush/Trumpians, keep trying to get my minister father to join the cult. They continuously try to make him take the red pill (watch Fox News), but fortunately, it puts him to sleep. Maybe I’ll call that a miracle, such as it is.

Maybe Amy Conan O’Brien spread it to everyone at the Rose Garden event. Everyone except Pence. Of course, the “scientists” will say she couldn’t possibly be contagious any longer but do they really know? This virus is highly novel, afterall. They still don’t understand it fully. Not by a long shot. It’s still largely a mystery to the scientific community, hence it’s dubious an EFFECTIVE vaccine will be developed any time soon.

That fly on Pence proves what I’ve suspected all along. He’s a rotting cadaver that walks and talks. Like many Trumpians, he’s the Walking Dead. That fly was just doing what flies do. Lay their eggs on unpreserved dead people so their maggot progeny can feast on the rotting flesh. Pence hasn’t gotten COVFEFE-19 because he’s already dead. The fly in the ointment proves it.

Trump and his team refuse to allow a forensic audit of the claims they have contracted COVFEFE-19. Until I see that proof, the possibility this is a ruse is still in play. Trump’s behavior certainly lends credence to the theory. Is it insane? Hell yes, it’s insane, but then it’s Fat Donny Trump we’re talking about. He’s insane and nothing is too bizarre and insane for him.

So that Jayapal has the strong Medicare for All bill in the House is incidental to this screed, right? And if it isn’t Jayapal, we’ll start seeing the Martians getting blamed. Better paranoid conspiracies, please. The current ones are getting stale.

“I predict Trump will walk this back, and claim that he was just trying to pressure Pelosi.”

Well, Newsweek put up a headline about 2 hours, ago:

Stimulus Talks ‘Very Productive,’ Trump Says, Days After He Killed Them Off

metamars, you do realize that children do get Covid, some do die from it, and they are certainly able to transmit it to their teachers and parents?

And Atlas is Trump’s current whack Covid spokesman. So let’s cite him as the new pseudo-authority. Whooboy.

@hugh

I don’t know what your educational background is, but mine is physics and math. When you ask

“you do realize that children do get Covid, SOME do die from it, and they are certainly able to transmit it to their teachers and parents?”

that word SOME sticks out like a sore thumb. If I was asked to solve a problem in radioactive decay of a thorium isotope, of X percent in a thorium sample weighing Y gram, in T minutes, I would not answer “Holy Moses, SOME of the thorium went bye-bye. I’m sure we have less of it now then when we started. If thorium isotopes were children, each one that decayed would be a tragedy”.

The teacher would want to know if I could figure out HOW MUCH. The quantitative question required a quantitative answer.

The Trump Administration was trying to wrest data out of the CDC. That’s quantitative information. From what I’ve written, you should have been able to figure out that whatever quantitative SOME applies covid, the quantitative SOME for flu would be even more.

Since teachers and parents are at risk of dying from flu they contracted from their children, do you seriously suggest we keep schools closed during flu season? I mean, you know it’s going to kill SOME child, somewhere. And SOME teacher, somewhere. And SOME parent, somewhere. If “SOME” is good enough for public policy, in hugh’s world, I assume it should apply equally to covid and flu.

As for children serving as transmission vectors to parents and teachers, those are valid questions. I’ve already indicated oldsters (e.g. living with grandchildren) should have been considered, from the beginning. Of course, in a school scenario, some sort of calculation, based on actuarial and epidemiological data, should be attempted (in good faith).

Where is that calculation? I don’t work for the CDC, nor the Trump Administration; nor do I have the right background for attempting such calculations. I don’t see Jayapal asking for those calculations, either.

Fortunately, as of a few days ago, some epidemiologists have organized to present their vision of a rational opening plan. (Unfortunately, I’m not seeing a detailed decision tree presented, informed by the data. However, they state “A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals. “)

I’m talking about “The Great Barrington Declaration”, currently signed by 4,819 Medical & Public Health Scientists and 9,084 Medical Practitioners. See gbdeclaration.org.

Good to know that kids’, parents’, and teachers’ lives can be dismissed like a radioactive thorium decay rate. Hey, only 210,000 dead. Look at world population and that’s not even a rounding error.

People’s lives should matter, and not be seen as an inconvenience that we should be coming up with excuses to devalue and write off.

Bottomline is that Covid is a serious health crisis and we should treat it as such.

How do we know the rest of the world didn’t conspire against the USA just to make us look bad?

I know as a fact that Washington state, former Covid epicenter, which has hated Iowa since, well way back when, now has less reported covid cases with double the population. As Iowa.

A “scientist” would want to lay out all the facts before coming to conclusions. Not me. I’d rather lay out all the obfuscations before coming to conspiracies. Booyah!

Mitch McConnell Won’t Go to White House Due to Coronavirus Procedures

I’m not surprised the chinless hypocrite and thief from Kentucky “thinks” this, but that he said it in public was surprising. Is it a case of “Trump is done, stick a fork in him”?

Trump is doing incredible damage to the Republican party in general, and to McConnell’s prospects for next year in particular. He might be a tad bit bitter about the situation.

If we just ignore that we are in a pandemic, it is surprising how many pandemic precautions become unnecessary. Problem solved!

https://www.ianwelsh.net/trump-covid-thread/#comment-118318

How is Joemala going to convince a desperate embittered public to adopt a New Zealand/ Peoples’ China level of lockdown in return for the promise of utterly exterminating the virus from America?

The virus is here to stay, and “exterminating” it is an unreasonable goal. I’m no fan of either Biden or Harris, and if I vote (Indiana!) I’ll write in somebody like Daffy Duck. That said, it’s difficult to see how Biden (or Harris) could do worse than Trump on the Covid issue.

The DNC arranged for McConnell to have a worthless nobody to run against him, so I can hardly blame Kentuckians for rejecting her. (“Amy McGrath Is Airing A Pro-Trump Ad In A Swing State Media Market”)

McConnell’s problem is that he will probably soon be Minority Leader.

I won’t disagree with your remark Trump’s doctors are liars, but suggesting he doesn’t have Covid is waaaay too far out.