Trump’s Refusal to Impose Sanctions on Russia

America deserves to be blown completely up many times over, by nearly everyone. I find myself in the morally complex situation of hoping for the mercy from other peoples that my own culture has never shown to anyone (I am, genetically-speaking, nearly 70% white Northern European and, nationally-speaking, 100% American).

Punishing Russia because 21% of Americans are stupid enough to think Donald Trump can solve their problems is a disastrous plan. After long consideration, and basing my opinion on my view of Putin and his government as old-fashioned masculist doucherag strongmen who probably think grip strength corresponds to some kind of meaningful personality characteristic, I think our Russian hysteria might be making us look “weak.” We should handle our shit and move on, like grown-ups. Making sure little technical election issues like this can never happen again seems like a much more important priority than passing along economic hardship to poor Russians. Humiliating and unseating Donald Trump because he is a puke-faced, money-laundering, unprosecuted sex criminal also sounds like a nice idea. Preventing Republicans from dismantling the nicer parts of the government while grotesquely empowering the fascist parts is the star I’m reaching for. Pantsing Russia isn’t going to help with any of that (or with the fact that the Democrats keep shoving Hillary Clinton out onto the press stroll even though nearly everyone hates her).

I would like to apologize in advance for any misspelled words in the above comment, because my autocorrect has developed disassociative personality disorder and I naturally spell like a teabagger.

Putin is a thug, and Russia is a dictatorship. Russia is not a super power despite its large stockpile of nukes. And sanctions are as good a way as any to curb his pretensions.

Trump is in the bag for the Russians. I do not know why this is so, whether it is blackmail, driven by his business interests, or part of his dementia. But every time people start talking about him being in the bag for Putin he does something else to show he is in the bag for the Russians.

If Trump were a Democrat, his ass would already have been canned, no matter how many appeals to conspiracies fomented by the FBI, the Martians, or those strange creatures from Orion.

rc, please stop hijacking threads with your inanities.

Russia: my response do anything in the news about Russia these days relative is ::groan:: and ::eyeroll::. If they’re not wanting to go back to hand counted hand marked paper ballots they ain’t really worried about anybody hacking the voting machines. And no reasonably intelligent person in their right mind can possibly be that worried about a few Twitter bots. & Russia’s foreign policy is a hella lot saner than ours.

(Aside re: Putin: he may or may not be a very bad man, on balance. He probably didn’t rise through the ranks of the KGB by being a nice person. But he seems competent and sane and non-delusional, which puts him ahead of most Western heads of state–not an endorsement of all his policies and on global warming everything positive I just said goes out the window; no large country’s providing good leadership there)

Lastly, as far as the supposedly improving economy, it’s kind of amazing to me the every since the early 80’s the economy has supposedly been either improving rebounding growing or going gang busters at least 3 out of every 4 years. Maybe more. Supposedly people are better off now by the same numbers. Okay any of you who were alive back in the supposedly awful 70’s or the supposedly much less good than now 80’s, can any of you say with a straight face the economy is anywhere near as good now?

Back when I was a kid a family could put their kids through college and live a comfortable middle class life without being freaked out about finances all the time on a single income in a non prestigious job, and you could live really well off of two incomes. And I’m not talking about you were like the head of your freakin giant company here I’m talking about people managing small local stores and stuff or working at manufacturing or what have you.

Now people are working longer and harder in worse environments for less money (more accurately, less purchasing power and less financial security). You can put up whatever numbers you want and they can make up whatever numbers they want I know this is true any of you who are over 40 know this is true and quite honestly I think pretty much everybody knows this is true, including the people who keep putting up these graphs saying things are Tony the Tiger grrrrrrreat!

People losing good jobs and getting rehired as Wal-Mart greeters (I’m probably exaggerating for effect but I’m not entirely sure) do not constitute an improving economy or a rebounding economy or any such thing. And I could list a whole bunch of other reasons to be skeptical but y’all all know them.ad well as I do.

And Russia doesn’t have anything to do with any of this. In the US Russia has very little to do with much of anything except they probably kept us from screwing up really bad in Syria (With a Little Help from the Trump election which well as with Ian I can’t say much good about him but that’s one thing I can say he seems to at least have made some efforts to slow down this desperate desire to restart the Cold War on the part of practically everybody else in Washington).

A lot of that veto-proof vote was provided by Trump enemies, Dims and Estab Rethugs, who just want to hurt him. I can see where he might expect to have the political advantage if his Congressional enemies actually go ahead to pass the bill over his veto.

I say “actually go ahead” because it appears that a whole lot of info unfavorable to Trump’s enemies will be coming out in the next few days. Politics, politics. Plus, the sanctions would show us yet again to be the worlds most shameless hypocrites. Meddle with elections? We’re shocked, shocked . . .

Aside from that, it seems extremely short-sighted to me (not to say ‘demented’ lol) to minimize the value of keeping relations with Russia as amiable as possible, not only because they do, in fact, have enough nukes to leave a mark, but especially because it would really suck for us if they decide they would rather cozy up to neighbor (and probable dominant superpower of the future) China.

So Z, how is Obama, an evil man who loves no one and nothing but himself and his own, different from Trump? or really anybody else among our rich and elites?

I am a big critic of the Chomskyan view of the world, that if only somehow the US had never existed, the rest of the world would all have turned into a bunch of Jeffersonian Democrats. As bad as things are in the world and US responsibility in them, they probably would have been a lot worse in its absence. Disagree? Look at the last couple centuries of European history or the last 3,000 years of Chinese history, long before the US was a major power or even existed. Putin is a dictator and runs a kleptocracy of oligarchs that is far more brazen and rapacious than even our own. His dream is to resurrect the colonial empire that was the USSR. He was for self-determination in Crimea. In Chechnya? Not so much. He suppresses democracy at every turn, and declares himself a patriot. How are these two things remotely compatible? You can only call him “sane” in comparison to an idiot like Trump, but that is an impossibly low bar.

Whether or not Putin is a thug, his approval rating in Russia is sky-high-

I read nothing after this. It screams “I’m a Russian Troll.”

Is America ready for a first ginger President?

Will all hell break loose if a ginger gets elected to the highest office before a woman?

Can Kamala Harris win a national election without declaring herself to also be gay?

There’s not enough popcorn . . . 🙂

Trump has proven that the POTUS can be anything — demented, a dog, an eggplant or even a roll of toilet paper. It really doesn’t matter who’s POTUS. Whoever or whatever it is, the beat goes on. And the beat goes on.

Russians must think of democracy as that system where foreign vultures got to buy up their country, and their desperate women from Moscow’s streets, for firesale prices. And look at them now, so powerful that they can swing American elections with a few thousand rubles worth of Facebook ads. No wonder Putin is so popular!

And look at them now….

Yes, look at them now. They took the Western Blueprint for Post-Soviet Russia and used it themselves. They adopted The Summers Model but kept it In House and now they have their very own Homegrown Oligarchy, with Putin as Chief Oligarch, just as The West has its own Oligarchy.

It took a billionaire to break the ice. (Perot was also a billionaire.)

But with the ice broken, maybe an outsider with less than a billion dollars might have a shot. The menu of plausibles just got bigger. That’s progress. OR, hey, let’s elect another Kennedy!

After all, his family fortune was built on hard work and bootlegging lol.

Hugh Says – – -“please stop hijacking threads”

Talk about a thread hijack Hugh, you offer an unrelated ad hominem wholly apart from Ian point.

And this unrelated ad hominem indicates you’d like to see a regime change in Russia? And this regime change you/Hugh desire is in direct contravention to the expressed will of the people, both American & Russian. So the only the only option for “thuggish hijackers” such as yourself is through a massive use of undemocratic force of economic & military, or is there another way to impose your will on Russia?

And then complain in almost the same sentence about “interference” is pretty rich nonsense.

Somebody indicated you are better than today’s nonsense, I disagree, this about your norm, you are always advocating DC’s “conventional wisdom” in the hope of an EZ-Rah Klien elevator ride to the top. Get your own blog [and live in obscurity] advocating for whatever “right thing” you are fed by the neocolonialist-neocons / gilded-age-neoliberals and “please stop hijacking threads”.

These additional sanctions may have been sold to the public as a response to unproven Russian meddling in the election but they are part of already existing sanctions based on verified Russian actions. Russia annexing Crimea, violating the short range nuke force treaty and some of their actions in Syria. These were a legal basis for imposing sanctions while the meddling accusations are unproven.

This sanctions bill was a knee-jerk reaction to Trump’s election and a power-play attempt to strip Trump of his executive power to lift sanctions. Soon after the bill was signed the problems it would create for European banks/investors was evident and Trump’s trip to Davos may have been to reassure these people that they wouldn’t be targeted by the USG especially now that Russian arms and other deals are being cancled

“Trump is in the bag for the Russians. I do not know why this is so, whether it is blackmail, driven by his business interests, or part of his dementia. But every time people start talking about him being in the bag for Putin he does something else to show he is in the bag for the Russians.”

Nice little trap you got going there. No way for him to go, damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Trying to avoid WWW3 is NOT being in the bag for Putin you evil piece of crap. Dickheads like you seem to think everybody else will stay stupid forever and never see your clever little rhetorical bullshit.You also think you are a special snowflake and wont die from blast effects or irradiation.

You would be wrong

“Trump, as the executive, is refusing to carry out an explicit law passed by the legislative.” – nihil obstet

“The constitutional function of Congress in foreign affairs is to act as a check on presidential power. Only Congress can declare war, and the Senate must approve all treaties and confirm the president’s nominees for ambassadorial and cabinet positions. Congress has additional authority to act as a check on presidential power through its appropriation and oversight functions. Congress can cut or increase foreign aid or the budget for a defense project. It can set restrictions on the length of time American troops are deployed during an international crisis by refusing to pay for them beyond a certain date.”

But just as a “declaration of war” by congress without the President’s approval was foreseen and made impossible to carry by the founders through separation of powers, so it is with all of article I.

Article I: “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes”.

While enacting an economic blockade should be argued to exceed “regulation” of commerce and fall into an act of war without proper declaration. The whole point is made moot by fact that even if Congress feels it can “mandate” a President take executive actions in foreign affairs [that may lead to war], it has no power to impose on the presidential prerogative of enforcement. The founders separated power for just this reason.

To say the President has to go to war because an “explicit law was passed by the legislative” is to give all power to congress, something the founding fathers would be shocked to hear out of any schooled American.

Regulate
verb
[with object]

1 Control or maintain the rate or speed of (a machine or process) so that it operates properly.

1.1 Control (something, especially a business activity) by means of rules and regulations.

1.2 Set (a clock or other apparatus) according to an external standard.

You also think you are a special snowflake and wont die from blast effects or irradiation.

You have no clue.

If Trump is so interested in Pleasant Relations with Russia, why all the boastful rhetoric about expanding America’s nuclear capacity & capability? If Russia isn’t the perceived enemy requiring an expanded nuclear capacity & capability, who is? How many nukes does it take to destroy North Korea and by virtue of that South Korea in the process? The Islamic State? How in thee hell can you destroy The Islamic State with nuclear weapons without MASSIVE collateral damage? It’s tantamount to freeing a home of a roach infestation by burning it to the ground with the occupants in it.

However, the Trump proposal would actually add nuclear warheads to the US inventory in the form of “low-yield weapons.” The draft NPR calls these supplements, and they’re largely in response to the perceived Russia threat. The US has an existing stockpile of about 1,000 low-yield weapons.

“These supplements will enhance deterrence by denying political adversaries any mistaken confidence that limited nuclear employment can provide a useful advantage over the United States and its allies,” the review reads. “For example, Russia’s belief that limited nuclear first use, potentially including low-yield weapons, can provide such an advantage is based, in part, on Moscow’s perception that its greater number and variety of non-strategic nuclear systems provide a coercive advantage in crises and at lower levels of conflict.”

Despite the name, low-yield nuclear weapons are monstrous, city-destroying forces, comprising any warhead under 20 kilotons. Little Boy and Fat Man, the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan during World War II, were low-yield, and they killed more than 120,000 people combined, scorching Hiroshima and Nagasaki bare.

The draft takes its cue from the 2010 NPR when it says, copied verbatim, “The United States would only consider the use of nuclear weapons in extreme circumstances to defend the vital interests of the United States, its allies, and partners.” However, the updated version expands the definition of such events: “Extreme circumstances could include significant non-nuclear strategic attacks. Significant non-nuclear strategic attacks include, but are not limited to, attacks on the US, allied, or partner civilian population or infrastructure.”

Essentially, the draft opens the door for the US to respond to a devastating cyberattack with a nuclear strike. Perhaps a low-yield strike, even. Previously, the US has been averse to a first-use scenario, pledging to launch nuclear weapons only if the country were directly targeted by other nukes.

“It’s actually incredibly alarming that the Trump administration is putting forth the idea that we could use nuclear weapons in response to a cyberattack,” Alexandra Bell of the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation told National Public Radio on Monday. “The Trump plan actually puts multiple options on the table — nuclear weapon in response to a chemical attack, to a biological weapons attack, to an attack on civilians without a real description of where that threshold is and really widens the options for President Trump to use nuclear weapons.”

Has the swamp been drained yet?

I didn’t know thar Stevie was such an anti-nuke pearl-clutcher. Replacing a 500kt Nuke with a couple of more accurately targeted 30kt Nukes seems like a smart move. The C&C bunkers these Nukes are targeting will be more vulnerbls and deterence will be strengthened.

The BS about us Nuking someone for a cyber-attack is typical exaggeration about the long held US position that Nukes are a deterent to all conventional agression by the major powers.

I didn’t know thar Stevie was such an anti-nuke pearl-clutcher.

Where did you get that idea?

On the contrary, I’m a yuge fan of nukes. My Uncle, an MIT alum, taught me all about nukes. In fact, he taught me how to build my own low yield nuke from scratch.

I love nukes so much, I made one for each member of my immediate family this past Christmas. They make great stocking stuffers and it’s my right to do so by virtue of the 2nd Amendment.

Now, whenever someone gives any of my immediate family any grief, be it someone on Facebook or Twitter or the grocery store clerk even, they can nuke their damn asses to kingdom come.

By virtue of their Christmas presents, my immediate family has become death, the destroyer of worlds. To say I’m proud is an understatement. There’s nothing as satisfying as leveling the playing field.

YEE HAW!!!!!!!

Let me second a thumbs up for Mojave Wolf’s comment….& also compliment Herman’s positive remarks in support of her point.

Remember a million years ago when the U.S. pretended China(other than Taiwan) just didn’t exist? Mao and Jou were very certainly NOT nice people and yet the old Commie baiter Nixon understood that there’s only one planet we all live on, so it’s foolish to ignore a fifth of the planet’s population just because their leaders are not very nice. Constructive engagement was the way the old time Rockefeller Republicans put it. You don’t have to like them to do business with them and, the theory went, when the advantages of Capitalism became apparent they would slowly move away from the whole collectivist model. Today’s question is “Do we want to isolate Russia(somehow?) in an effort to blunt their influence or would we rather normalize relations in the expectation that Russia will start acting like a ‘normal’ country and we can engage in trade and cultural hegemony like we do with just about everyone else?” The NeoCons want the former and if Trump is the only one for the latter, then I suppose I must agree with Trump. Perhaps he has all the wrong motivations but if he advocates that which seems the best course, then I should be a hypocrite if I opposed it merely due to its source.

“The reason the world never changes for the better is that so many”, so many sycophants are willing to fellate power by engaging in theatrically overdone false dichotomies, as Hugh does above…”for example”.

Saying my opposition to the folly of the last 4 wars [and war with Russia] makes me a “defender of the indefensible” as Hugh does now…and EZ-Rah Klein did so often before him, is a particularly disgusting form of disingenuous rhetoric.

The Russians behave the way they do because they are afraid of the West. Russians know their history. They know that they have suffered invasions from Western powers from the Teutonic Knights to Sweden to Napoleon to Hitler.

American policy toward Russia since the end of the Soviet Union can be characterized as kicking a beaten opponent when they are down. Russians remember that Western economists supported the devastating shock therapy policies that lead to millions of excess deaths, particularly among working-class male Russians. Then the United States broke its promise to the Russians and expanded NATO eastward. This was seen by Russians as a direct provocation. The West even supported anti-Russian neo-fascists in Ukraine which is especially ironic given how Democrats talk about Trump being a fascist and clutch their pearls over alt-right keyboard warriors while ignoring how Obama and Clinton supported real dangerous fascists in Ukraine.

There is no reason why the United States and Russia should be enemies. In the long term Russia has much more to fear from China. The Chinese have longstanding historical claims on portions of the Russian Far East which has water and other natural resources that the Chinese will need in the future. Russia is facing the prospect of the Amur River becoming their Rio Grande as millions of Chinese may flock to the Russian Far East for work or to escape environmental degradation in China.

Yet Russia is currently allied with the Chinese against the United States. It makes no sense unless one admits that we have pushed Russia into the arms of the Chinese due to our continued hostility and obsession with re-starting the Cold War.

The Russo-phobia here is palpable with one poster saying Putin is a thug; and said with a sense of authority (not warranted).
Has said poster met Putin? If not, then just how does he know this information?
But of course; people he knows and trusts have said the very same thing (including Ian); so, it must be true.
Putin is evil. Again said with a degree of authority (not warranted) by persons here and unknown; so, it must be true.
There are posters here who are not so easily influenced; and further, see what their own leaders are doing and have done since the end of WWII; it’s a picture of wanton imperialism with its consequent violence; defacto destruction of at least 6 countries in the ME, and south Asia as well.
Tens of millions dead.
I don’t think Russia or Putin can hold a candle to that; nor would Russia/he want to.
You Russo-phoebe’s are bereft of all credibility and are your own worst detractors. I see you as a major cheerleaders of the single largest purveyor of violence on this planet. MLK (loosely quoted).

Oh; and one more thing; Russia is NOT a super power.
Another statement born in ignorance.
I have no idea what metric was applied to that; but it’s wrong as two left shoes.
On careful research, it’s apparent Russia is indeed a “super power” by all metrics the experts use.
Syria should be ample evidence the hegemon has met its (at least) equal.
Careless opinions based on hyperbole and not facts, history, and present realities.

“If the Nunes’ FICA memo is released Friday the fake news and fake collusion plot about Trump/Putin will be exposed and replaced with a real news and collusion in high places story.”

Really, Peter? You think so? Because I’m of a mind that it’s counter-chaffe. Jim Wright makes the sanest and soundest arguments I’ve heard on the subject of the Nunes-Memo, here: http://www.stonekettle.com/2018/01/dirty-tricks.html.

I’m surprised by your sudden turn from skepticism. Your comment read better the second time through when I imagined you speaking with the voice of an excited 10-year old girl. Better check and see you didn’t pee yourself a little.

Web choosing a glib douche to think and sandbag for him isn’t any more surprising than the pitiful attempts at diversion the snowflakes are producing.

These clowns are still in denial about being loosers so more denial is natural for them. The problem for them now is that this corruption and crime can’t be ignored, even their media is hooked on the story and some of them are actually aware enough to see a bloody power struggle developing.

I’m with Peter on this one.

However, I would point out (to his anticipated discomfort lol) that the Obama-Clinton types figured they could get away with this outrageous FBI-DOJ shit, because they had already gotten away so successfully with their incredible law-defying rescue effort for all the bad actors in the financial sector, where they put corrupt sheriff Holder and corrupt deputy Lanny Breuer in charge of getting the bad guys they enabled in private practice (‘MERS is OK.’), which is also the private practice where Holder again resides (maybe Breuer also).

Time to flush this toilet already.

V. Arnold,

I agree with much of what you say, but I do want to say in regards to people stating their opinions on Putin, such as when I said that Putin is evil, just because you don’t personally know someone doesn’t mean that you can’t have a strong opinion of them. I believe that Putin had his own people bombed in order to justify attacking Chechnya. If you remember, there were a series of apartment bombings that got blamed on Chechnya shortly after Putin became Prime Minister. I just don’t see why Chechnya, who had at that point achieved some degree of peaceful independence, would provoke Russia then. I think Putin wanted that war. His actions raised his popularity considerably and shortly afterward he became president.

The guy worked his way up in the KGB and rose to power at a very lawless time in Russia’s history. I don’t think that would have been possible without a certain degree of ruthlessness and evilness.

Z