You Can’t Scream Holocaust or Fascist Without Consequences

I wouldn’t worry too much, I mean, at the end of the day fascists and fake-lefties both support the capitalist/corporate system that we have in place so as long as that stays in place there’s no need to worry. Both groups do truly enjoy the prison they live in no matter how hard the whiners squeal, just don’t take away their football, etc.

Again, as far as the psyop Trump goes, it’s amazing how easy/clever it was for TPTB to create a candidate that could could simultaneously marginalize the ideas of those on the edges of both the American right and fake-left.

A racist/sexist/rapist/xenophobe who also somehow respects Russia and doesn’t think our machinations in the ME are doing anybody any good? How’s that for central casting? Now as he goes down in flames all of those ideas go with him only to resurface later after the election when some extremist Trump supporter (read: US intelligence asset/agent provocateur, see link below) stirs up trouble/violence. Then the REAL fun begins as then those ideas that were discredited via Trump’s coming electoral disaster – xenophobia as well as rapprochement w/ Russia, etc – are criminalized by PTB. Ironically, thus, it will be the fake-left support given to Trump in his electoral DEFEAT – the “trap” I mentioned previously – which will further bring the reign of oppression down upon our heads. Thanks, guys.

See, the hallmark of intelligence operations is that at a certain point you can see that the mark – in this case the US populace – has no good options no matter what decision they make. Certainly, this would have been the case in the election Spectacle no matter who had “run” but this tying up into one big package all of 1) the ideas TPTB don’t want to spread and 2) the ideas/hatred they can utilize to their advantage just screams intelligence operation is just too perfect.

Lastly, in line w/ the above, if you any of you take at face value Snowden, Assange or any of the whistle-blower darlings of the last few years, there really is no hope for you. Do some homework, please. Their stories have stunk/not made a lick of sense from the beginning. Hell, TPTB are probably leaking the Hillary files themselves right now knowing that the election’s over and everyone’s made up their minds – a Friday night newsdump writ large. Then in 2020 TPTB can say it’s all old news and been covered before.

Here’s a link to yet another FBI-orchestrated “terror” plot that was supposed to happen on November 9th. It was only foiled when one of the “terrorists” went to the locals after getting beat up.

http://www.kansas.com/news/state/article108279072.html

Russian elites really do think Clinton wants war with them.

And they are right to think so. Even if they were not right to think so the precautionary principle applies.

I really do not understand why so many civilians have problems with the fact that when evaluating other countries the very first thing you take into account is their capability not their intentions. When you have established their capabilities to a reasonable extent then and only then do you assess their intentions. The Russians have a very good idea of what America is capable of. They’re also well aware of the fact that an utterly unreasoning loathing of Russia has been a constant in American foreign policy for decades. Clinton has always been a warmonger and she has always been viciously Russophobic. “Russian elites really do think Clinton wants war with them” damn right they do, they also believe that large swathes of the American policy establishment share Clinton’s desire for war with Russia. In my opinion they are entirely correct in both beliefs.

Does anyone remember anytime in this election cycle when anyone discussed an actual issue (OK, Bernie Sanders maybe) and actually outlined how whatever their proposal was was going to make it through Congress, and from there into reality? The short answer is nobody.

Our political process is not broken in the sense that it can be repaired. It is rotten in the sense that it needs to be replaced. No one has a plan, other than the unstated one to steal us blind. Everyone is lying. Words do have consequences, but they are almost incidental to the thrashing and lashing of a political system in its death throes.

If you vote for any Democrat or any Republican, you are not being responsible and a good citizen. You are voting to keep the monster alive.

Oops, it seems my tin foil hat is too small to comment on this thread lol.

But, Ron Showalter, I do want to thank you for giving me a very good idea of what an acid trip would have been like, if I had ever had the nerve to try that shit.

Mindfuckery abounds under the guise of esoteric intellectualism. Fill ‘er up!

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar (unless wielded by Bill Clinton, of course; then it’s a date).

I just hope nobody hurts any of the bad people. That wouldn’t be nice.

America’s flirtation with Fascism is far older than its’ fascination with Donald T Drumpf. The birth of the Klu Klux Klan, of a xenophobic nationalistic warrior cult and Hitler’s expressed appreciation for both the klan and America’s solution to the “Indian Problem,” and the American elite’s financing of Hitler’s aggression and an attempted coup to install a more corporate friendly administion come to mind.

For starters, ‘fascist” does not equal Hitler, etc.. It equals Mussolini and Franco.

The Nazis, BTW, were the National Socialist Workers Party. Many have noted that and asserted Nazi’s were actually socialist. Mussolini, meanwhile began as a socialist. And many a Marxist has denounced a rival as a “fascist in sheep’s clothes.”

Which begs the question of what, really, is the difference between a fascist and a socialist?

Which may be a major question or a cavil no more significant than debating the difference between smallpox and chicken pox.

But “fascism” ( however defined ) is a 20th century phenomenon, which is why Trump (who is more of a fascist-wannabe, actually ) is now failing.

We are at serious risk of being ruled by authoritarian thugs, but they would be more of the Robert Mugabe / Idi Amin variety than 20th century dictators.

The ‘no fly zone’ that Clinton wants to impose over Syria would mean war with Russia from the very second it was implemented since, under U.S. military doctrine, it requires the immediate destruction of all ‘enemy’ air defenses.

So with that in mind, Jill Stein has said that Trump is less likely to get the US involved in a war with Russia, and even left leaning sites such as Counterpunch are starting to wonder if Hillary would risk nuclear war to protect al-Qaida?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/17/pick-your-poison-presidential-politics-and-planetary-prospects/

Personally I would support the war with Russia, as long as Lloyd Blankfein’s son Jonathan (who works at Goldman Sachs) and Chelsea Clinton (who is married to a Goldman Sachs banker) are both required to join the army and fight on the front lines.

Russia Today bank account frozen, censorship on all major media and social media platforms, provocateurs planted at Trump rallies, Assange lawyer and various other loose ends murdered, internet handed over to UN, all US law enforcement bribed or coerced to stand down….

Nice little dictatorship we’ve got here…

I don’t understand, how is a ‘war’ with Russia even possible unless its some sort of proxy war. A war with Russia is the end, the end of everything correct? This is kind of stuff that used to give me wet, febrile nightmares a child. So glad this worry is back. Just in time for my own kids to get a serious case of the shimmyshams. God, I want off this planet, please.

Almost all of our political and economic terms have been used so sloppily and cynically for so long that their original and historic meanings have been completely debased. I have written here many times that liberalism does not equal New Dealism. Liberalism used to mean Wilsonian liberalism which was elitist, pro-corporatist, pro-interventionist in foreign affairs, anti-labor, paternalistic, and rabidly anti-populist. New Dealism added just enough socialist elements to classical liberalism to save capitalism in crisis during the Great Depression. It lasted all of four years before FDR himself made the first moves to end it. If you look at neoliberalism and modern conservatism too for that matter, you can see how heavily indebted both are to Wilsonian liberalism. Neoliberalism is, in fact, a return to classical liberalism. Modern conservatism, on the other hand, has largely moved away from its old core tenets of isolationism, state rights, and a small military. Modern conservatism pays lip service to “small government”, but they embraced big government 70 years ago.

Much the same distortions happened to the term fascism. Historically, it was a form of statism which sought to combine the power of the capitalists and unions under a party and a dictator. It was decidedly anti-labor. The inclusion of unions in this schema was meant to constrain the rights of labor, not increase them. It was ultra-nationalist at home, and imperialist abroad, and along with both of these, militarist. The fasces, a collection of rods bound by cords, symbolized strength through unity, but the fasces also contained axes which symbolized state violence. Extra-judicial violence or direct action against opponents was taken to be a demonstration of strength. The subservience of all aspects of society to the party and the state was justified by some “great” national purpose or destiny.

Fascism has been used as a synonym for Nazism, militarism, ultra-nationalism, authoritarianism, and totalitarianism. Of these, only the authoritarian and ultra-nationalist tags apply. Totalitarianism in its Hitlerist and Stalinist manifestations is an entirely different kettle of fish, and I would direct anyone interested in the subject to the third part of Hannah Arendt’s Origins of Totalitarianism.

But again all these terms have been debased. So much so that the prime example of modern fascism is Israel. But since Jews were once victims of Nazism, and fascism and Nazism have become interchangeable, they were victims of fascism, and so we arrive at the false truism that victims of fascism cannot become perpetrators of fascism. Ergo Israel cannot be fascist, even if it is.

So Trump is tarred with the fascist brush because he is nationalist, is a one person or leader show, and proclaims he wants to make America “great” again. If you look at fascism as the state as criminal enterprise, and go back through the list of its main elements above. The candidate who embodies these elements far more than Trump is actually Clinton. Or to put it another way, Trump looks like a fascist the way he stumps and frets about, but Clinton in the substance is one.

He has a campaign manager in Manafort that had dealings with pro-Russian Ukrainian officials and eventually got bounced because of the steady drip of Russian ties. Trump encouraged Russia to further hack emails for his benefit. Trump likely (wish we knew for certain) has business interests with Russia or its oligarchs. Russian state actors hack the DNC and “leak” those emails to Wikileaks in an attempt to sway the US election. There’s plenty of smoke here to suspect a fire.

@Duncan Kinder

This kind of revisionist crap irritates the living hell out of me, and I’m very disappointed to see that no one else felt compelled to challenge your nonsense. The Nazis were right-wing; every worthwhile historian agrees with that assessment. They were directly inspired by Mussolini’s right-wing fascists. That Mussolini himself started as a socialist doesn’t change they fact he ended up on the right.

The Nazis called themselves socialist in an attempt to woo voters from the left. If they were actually ideologically left you would think they would have, among many other things, allied with the leftists in the Spanish Civil War instead of sending the Condor Legion to aid Franco, and formed a coalition with the socialist SPD (and maybe also the communist KPD) party for a super majority in the Reichstag. Instead the formed an alliance with the center-right Centre Party for a slight majority. They also wouldn’t have proceeded to round up leftists in concentration camps and even given them their own identity badge (a red triangle). The idea that the Nazis were socialist simply because they put socialist in their name shows you’ve literally never read a book about them or their rise to power.

@Tzimisce

I like how you just accept the claim that Russia is behind the hacks. There’s little to no evidence for this. As for Trump, Putin has said he prefers Trump because Trump is the only one who says he’s willing to sit down and talk. That’s it. There is, again, no evidence of Russia supporting Trumps campaign.

It is true that to most Americans fascist = Hitler, and that a more accurate term would be authoritarian. But authoritarian does not scare people as much as it should. Trump, like Mussolini and Hitler, had people en masse pledging their personal loyalty to him (the Fuehrerprinzip!), and validated violence by his followers. True, the term, fascist, generates a backlash, but people should be scared. Fortunately, Trump seems to have self-destructed after the first presidential debate by revealing himself to be a petty tyrant. He should have kept his mouth shut, but he is too full of himself.