The horizon is not so far as we can see, but as far as we can imagine

Bloggers et al notice that Republicans can win in 2010 and 2012

Image by Admit One

Image by Admit One

Yes, it’s another of my tiresome “I told you so, next time listen” posts.  In January and April I warned that Republicans could use their skill at being in the opposition and Obama’s manifest failings  could lead to a Republican rebound in 2010 and 2012.  His failings were clearly visible back then and indeed in the primary campaign. He didn’t turn into a compromising milquetoast when he got to the White House, he was always one.  He didn’t turn into a conservative Democrat in the White House, he was always one. Likewise, we knew the Repubicans weren’t going to play ball with Obama’s delusional ideas of bipartisanship and the stimulus package told us he wasn’t interesting in passing effective policy.

And, of course, the mockery ensued.  The Republicans, I was told, were such a joke that Obama and the Democrats couldn’t possibly lose, and as for Obama, well, he was a genius with brilliant legislative strategies a dullard like myself couldn’t understand.

Yeah…  I found the kool-aid drinkers sad when they drank Bush’s kool-aid, and I find them pathetic now that they’re drinking Obama’s.  I understand that people need to feel some hope in Obama, because if he screws up, well, it’s Americans who get screwed.  We all want to believe things will get better, but one of the surest ways to not have them get better is to live in some sort of fantasyland.  Obama was very clear even in the primaries that he was a compromiser who believed that with a dose of his charisma the Republican would melt and join Democrats in linking hands and singing kumbaya around the bonfire.  All could be solved if reasonable people got together and just reasoned together.

He later made his fundamental agreement with basic Bush principles of civil rights by voting for warrantless wiretapping after promising to vote against it, then made clear that he’d serve financial interests before ordinary Americans when he forced through TARP.

And yet people believed he was going to be some sort of progressive president?  Granted, even I have been shocked at just how much his administration has violated progressive and liberal principles, but I was only surprised in degree, not kind, because I knew he didn’t believe in them.  This isn’t because I’m brilliant, I’m not.  It’s because I looked at the evidence and didn’t let “hope” and soaring rhetoric distract me from his actions and, to a large extent, what he was actually saying.  Certainly he lied about some things, but he was very honest about his fundamental governing philosophy.  Likewise, who his key advisers were, the fact that he had the right-most policy prescriptions of the late Democratic primary field, the way he fetishized tax cuts and so on, told anyone who was listening without “hope” clogging their ears who he was.

This is why I repeatedly advised people to give money to and work for liberal Congressional candidates rather than Obama.  It was at that level that the left could make a real difference, not at the Presidential level where such donations were drops in an ocean and plenty of volunteers were already available.

America’s problems are not going to get solved before a complete crash out (something which I believe is now more than even odds within the next 20 years) if Americans, and especially progressives and liberals, keep letting themselves be fooled.

The truth won’t make you happy, nor will it set you free, but absent the truth you’re only another sucker who is helping the very people who oppress you.

[See Peter Daou on the possibility of 2010 and 2012 being loss years.]

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32 Comments

  1. The real problem with Obama and the establishment Democrats is lack of leadership. They don’t seem to know either where they are going or how to get there. They aren’t off message; they don’t have a message. If you look at what they do instead of listening to what they say, the Obama administration is still operating in the Reagan paradigm of economic neoliberalism as a political ideology.

    On the other hand, the progressive Dems do have a clear idea of what they envision for America and the world, but they have largely been shut out of the debate and hold virtually no significant leadership positions. As Frank Rich put it, they’ve been punked.

    Progressive Democrats are now feeling pretty much like Goldwater Republicans probably felt back in 1964. But they persisted and eventually won with Reagan in ’80. Then the social conservatives felt that they had been taken for granted, but they have now taken over the GOP and are calling the shots, even bullying the leadership, such as it is.

    Progressive Democrats need to take a lesson from that playbook — work hard and draw some lines in the sand. New leaders are emerging like Anthony Weiner, who Rachel Maddow has been giving a forum. The establishment Dems are counting on the progressives to go along with whatever Frankenstein monster they come up with, figuring they’ll just cave.

    The progressives have to be willing to stand firm and tell the Establishment, “No deal.” The establishment Dems know that if they don’t get a bill, they are out come 2010/2012. If the Progressives stand strong, the Establishment will cave. Count on it. They are really, really attached to their position and perks. But Progressives in Congress have to be willing to butt heads with Rahm. Progressives out of Congress can help by calling for his head, as well as Harry Reid’s.

    I’m not sanguine on this, since I’m in agreement with Stirling Newberry’s previous assessment that waning Reaganism has one more shot before the impending blowup shifts the paradigm. The Obama administration is placeholder for the next Republican administration. I’d put the endgame ten years out at the longest, but things could blow up anytime, especially with an exogenous shock. When Joe Stiglitz starts publicly worrying about the dollar, you know something’s up.

  2. Formerly T-Bear

    Well written post Ian.

    First: The congressional democrats lobotomized their leadership structure in a new member pique against seniority when Tip O’Neill was Speaker IIRC. The republicans never followed that path and have consistently held party discipline over rhyme and reason and as far as treason. Since the Nixon-Ford administration, any semblance in congressional republican vote to public sentiment on any question, is a typo in the public record; the republican discipline would make a fascist envy – oh wait …

    Second: The only political playbook in use was produced by the Chicago School of Economic Phrenology, aided and abetted by Harvard School of Business Eugenics. As you well know the level of economic knowledge existing in America is in even greater negative figures than their level of knowledge on history, or geography, or of social science, or of practically any other intellectual endeavor you care to point to. The brain drain the world experiences is American outsourcing their intellectual capacity. There is no possible way the failure of education for forty years can produce the reasoning capacity to conduct a country let alone run a republic, let alone a self-described democratic republic; how will history’s first case of self-lobotomy turn out? How will it be possible to devise an alternate understanding of economics and be widely disseminated and be publicly understood and agreed upon, and politically act upon, that mountain would make Sisyphus quail.

    Third: The intellectual bankruptcy that impels the American empire assures the collapse of that empire. All manner of false images will be sacrificed to appease hubris dealing doGs, e.g. term limits on public officeholding, class war upon wealth, evisceration of the corporation to disable “person-hood”, and whatever chimera some demagogue will indicate; it will not end well and what will be destroyed will not be restored. The now inevitable collapse of America and its hegemony has begun. Last month China started divesting of US Treasury bonds, it has already called for a basket of currencies to replace the US dollar in international trade and finance, but the band plays on, the same simple tune on the decks of Wall Street and Washington. The iceberg of the housing bubble has holed the ship of state from stem to boiler room, and the band still plays on. Twill not end well. Lies, fraud and ignorance do not float.

  3. Formerly T-Bear

    Sorry, here is link to China reducing dollar holdings: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8207174.stm

  4. Sad as all that is, sadder still is that the only part of it that resonates with most progressives is that Dems may lose upcoming elections.

    The fact that Obama is deliberately governing that way, and always intended and promised to, is somehow beyond their range of hearing… or at least beyond their range of speaking, and was painfully so when there was still time to do something about it.

  5. You were prematurely correct, Ian! And that makes you not serious.

    As far as the Rs winning in 2010… Well, I’m on the side that the other two sides are trying to suppress. Like a lot of people, I’m waiting for a populist spark, and I only pray it doesn’t come from the right.

  6. Ian Welsh

    Lambert’s linked post from 2007 is truly excellent and worth reading now, to drive home the point that what’s happening now was forseeable as far back as the primaries.

  7. Gtash

    Jeez Ian, you always leave me with nothing to say.

    (Just kidding. Keep batting them out of the park.)

  8. jbaspen

    Ian, I’m almost 60 and felt that I had cultivated a decent “bullshit detector”, to borrow from the Hemingway quip. There WERE things in Obma’s past that gave me hope: his intrepid, adventerious mother, his seemingly empathetic and smart companion Michelle, his membership in the congregation of the spot-on Jerimiah Wright, and his work as a “Community Organizer” (on this last point, I’m now trying to figure whether this was some part-time “pro-bono” gig, while he toiled as an associate in some big corporate law firm?). Silly me, I thought that Obama was trying to fool THEM (the corporate/ war- mongering establishment) and not us!
    I realize that Obama was deeded the Augean Stables, but the words of the old Appalachian writer Joe Bageant keep ringing in my ears: ” Obama’s brought in the same damn folks who fucked it up to fix it”!
    One thing that still intrigues me, Ian. There is a schism ongoing in the Jewish community between progessives (hell, even neo-liberals such as Joe Klein and Tom Freidman) and the ossified AIPAC types. Is Obama trying to expliot this opening by reaasuring moderate American and Israeli Jewry via his appointments and the maintenance of a muscular foriegn policy? In the end though, who is doing the co-opting?

  9. S Brennan

    Speaks for me:

    “Granted, even I have been shocked at just how much his administration has violated progressive and liberal principles, but I was only surprised in degree, not kind, because I knew he didn’t believe in them. This isn’t because I’m brilliant, I’m not. ”

    I don’t know if everybody has noticed, but the “brilliant”A-listers who support Obama now are the same set who labored to provide liberal rationalizations for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall, Drum, Matt Y, Ezra K, Juan C, Mark T…the list is too long to call out all those who repackage right wing wisdom…and who are richly rewarded for getting it wrong. Coincidence?

    Also, hasn’t anybody noticed that criticism of Obama from the left is religiously scrubbed from comment sections, while right wing attacks are okay?

  10. Thanks for the kind words, Ian (and for fixing the link).

  11. Jeff W

    …yet people believed he was going to be some sort of progressive president? Granted, even I have been shocked at just how much his administration has violated progressive and liberal principles, but I was only surprised in degree, not kind, because I knew he didn’t believe in them. It’s because I looked at the evidence and didn’t let “hope” and soaring rhetoric distract me from his actions and, to a large extent, what he was actually saying.

    You nailed it, Ian (as lambert had, with his amazing 2007 post). The “disappointment” expressed by many progressives is the result of what? Some mass psychosis? The breaking out from some mass psychosis?

    You could make the argument, as Jonathan Chait did in February, 2008, that President Obama would use “unity” means to achieve essentially progressive ends. (You could and you’d be wrong; lambert had rightly lambasted that argument months earlier and time has shown our resident Cassandra to be right, as all Cassandras must be.) Even progressive political scientists, who you’d think would know better, argue even now, rather hysterically, that the Kumbaya Kid is “caving” to Republican and conservative Democratic opposition. Again, those misguided “deluded” means are the problem; Obama would get what he (and, presumably, “we”) want, as long as he acted like FDR and called out the “economic royalists.”

    But the problem is in what Obama wants, not in his means (which is a different problem). Glenn Greenwald gets it right, it seems to me:

    The Obama White House isn’t sitting impotently by while Democratic Senators shove a bad bill down its throat. This is the bill because this is the bill which Democratic leaders are happy to have. It’s the bill they believe in.

    Anyone who blathers on about our “tradition” of employer-based health care and sees systemic health care reform as a “huge disruption” doesn’t have the right goals in mind, whether he’s singing Kumbaya or storming the barricades.

    Yeah, “absent the truth you’re only another sucker who is helping the very people who oppress you.” Exactly.

  12. Valley Girl

    Democrats’ hype about health care reform will hurt them

    The above is a Jun 4 article by Kip Sullivan at the PNHP blog, and was addressing events at the time. But the overall message still holds.

    The most interesting aspect to this article was Obama claiming that certain “things” would bring down costs, when in fact they would not. So, bear that in mind as your read

  13. Valley Girl

    oh, and p.s. I did not vote for Obama, or ever support him. The “deal closer” so to say was what happened during the FISA “episode” in the Senate.

  14. This is why I repeatedly advised people to give money to and work for liberal Congressional candidates rather than Obama. It was at that level that the left could make a real difference, not at the Presidential level where such donations were drops in an ocean and plenty of volunteers were already available.

    Me, too, for whatever good it did. Unfortunately, I really think there are lots of people running around this country who don’t understand that Congress makes the laws, and figures out how the money is supposed to be spent. They’re the ones who only show up to vote every four years.

    If this health care reform thing has proved anything, it’s that we don’t have enough progressives in Congress, particularly in the Senate. That’s what we need to keep focused on, I think. What legislation Obama can get passed will help to define his options.

  15. I don’t know how/whether supporting liberal congresscritters really helps. Ian, you should know P. E. Trudeau’s adage. Congresscritters are like Canadian MPs—most of them are nobodies off the Hill.

    Without having a President onside, what you then need are about 60 senators who are not just Democrats, but leftists. Haha, getting a socialist President is an order of magnitude easier. What, you say, it is impossible? Why yes, it is.

    It may just be that Obama is the best you can get. It’s all well and good to be Cassandra, but some of the would-be Cassandras (not you) seem to, you know, get off on it. It’s all really easy to critique the Big Progressive Bloggers, etc, but no one has so far discovered any better plan to get anything better, aside from assigning work work to Kos or something, bless his heart.

    The real problem, I think, is that one has to elect a new people, not a new president.

  16. Pursuant to the apparently spamulated previous post, there appears to be a condition among all flavours of progressives, particularly bloggers, that there is some kind of Strategy that will make them Effective and achieve their political goals. I am coming to the conclusion that, in fact, attempting to plan a Grand Strategy to achieve progressive goals is kind of futile, as futile a predictive exercise as economics.

    The analysis itself is useful in that, if there is any Grand Strategy that might work, it involves educating oneself and discussing with others. But beyond that, what we should have supported, should not have supported, should have voted for, donated to—is largely a pointless discussion as we have no way to verify our claims.

  17. This isn’t science, and no one claims it is. But if we don’t learn from the past, we are going to make the same mistakes. And I think we can learn from the past and that mistakes are evident.

    People with no strategy get rolled.

    The “make no strategy, don’t learn from the past” argument is an argument for learned helplessness at worst, and for repeating the same mistakes at best.

  18. Ian Welsh

    There are far more liberal and progressive Congressmembers than liberal presidents in the last 40 years. It takes far less money and work to elect a progressive house member in particular, and as a result we can have a greater effect there.

    Your comments, Mandos, appear to be about learned helplessness. It may be that you’re right, and that it’s all over and we should forget even trying because it’s hopeless, but I’m not there yet. And y’know, given how pessimistic I am as a rule, my calling someone else pessimistic isn’t saying your glass half empty, it’s saying your “glass isn’t half empty because the powers that be have already decided who’s going to drink it and that someone isn’t progressives”.

  19. Have you ever seen “There Will Be Blood”? If not, you might like it. Anyway, suffice it to say that I think the milkshake, as it were, has been drunk for some time now, on a very specific front, that front being the direct application of activism to the electoral system and its adjuncts.

    Let’s look at a few facts, and you can correct me if I’m wrong:

    (a) The poltical system in the USA has been effectively “gerrymandered” (in a broad sense) for a very long time now.

    (b) Major changes/improvements in social policy have really only happened in times of crisis/when crisis could be induced.

    (c) Third party attempts have failed miserably.

    (d) After Bush, the only Democratic candidates who had a prayer of winning turned out to be right-wing presidential candidates.

    (e) The Senate remains the obstacle to change via legislative means, and the most conservative Senators represent only a fraction of the population and wield disproportionate power.

    And so on.

    And contrary to many, I *don’t* think that there was a special Moment in 2008 where a particularly progressive candidate could have won *if only* the A-listers and/or whoever bothered to listen and support him/her. I mean, on what planet would eg Dennis Kucinich or equivalent have defeated John McCain? So fickle is the public that it’s not even obvious to me that Hillary Clinton could have defeated John McCain, even after Bush.

  20. And contrary to what you might think, I *don’t* believe that I am espousing “learned helplessness”. What I am suggesting instead is that the time scale for change is much greater than the opportunities presented by a single election. With a primary field in which Obama and Clinton topped the list, where exactly was the leeway for anyone of any note to hold the (D) party’s feet to the fire? As blogs go, the A-listers and progressives and what have you have many flaws, but I’m not convinced that their strategy during the election was one of them.

    Now, you might say as you did that the focus should have been on congressional seats. The role of Congress, at the moment, has been to hobble policy concocted at the executive level, not to promote policy, for any number of reasons. At least since 1994 that has been its role. I can’t think of a major new program or department or policy that has been created all on their own accord.

    Consequently, what of Obama’s agenda would a more progressive Congress of obstructed? We have a crisis of inaction here, not action.

  21. Consequently, working to elect Obama, for all his highly predictable failings, probably *was* the most optimal strategy. The ease at which American public opinion can be turned by the right suggests that it was not a done deal, ever. And the fact that Obama’s race continues to be a not-so-veiled issue, and a definite subtext in the health care debate suggests that, well, maybe the act of electing a black president *was* a strategic move that may bring the *actual* critical moment closer in a future presidency.

  22. Ian Welsh

    a) Of the the three final candidates Obama was the most rightmost in terms of domestic policy – even Clinton was to his left.

    b) People who held out, like women, got something from Obama.

    c) Congress could hold up Obama’s mandate and push him to the left. That’s what the current whipping on the public option is about. Granted, it’ll probably be sucky public option, but if one passes at all it’ll be because progressives in the House held firm, and if it doesn’t include a PO, well, a few more progressives might have made a difference.

    Given that Obama was the MOST conservative candidate, and given that more Congressional progressives might hold up his stupidity, then yes, having worked for them would have helped.

    Obama is now bleeding liberal support, that suggests dissing his base was not wise. It’s not all about the right wingers demonizing him. For that matter, if Obama had put in place effective policy (ie. a good stimulus bill) and if he had pushed a simple healthcare plan that was easy to understand and couldn’t be demonized so easily (ie. Medicare for all), he might not be losing support so badly. It is not clear to me that being a muddled incompetent Conservative democratic president makes Republicans and independents like the pres more.

  23. Valley Girl

    Ian:

    As you say:

    Obama is now bleeding liberal support, that suggests dissing his base was not wise. It’s not all about the right wingers demonizing him. For that matter, if Obama had put in place effective policy (ie. a good stimulus bill) and if he had pushed a simple healthcare plan that was easy to understand and couldn’t be demonized so easily (ie. Medicare for all), he might not be losing support so badly.

    I absolutely agree. The really bad bills previous to the “Health Care Effort” tilled the ground- perhaps not all liberals thought that each one of those was seriously bad (tho I did), but now a pattern has been established that is hard to ignore. And, health care is seriously broken in this country- something that has more personal resonance as an issue, than say “Sending More Troops to Afghanistan is uh, maybe a really bad idea.” So, it’s a cumulative effect, plus an issue now that people can identify widely with, have more “up close and personal” experience with, than the other bad Obama bills.

    My sense (fwiw) is that anger and angst are mounting, and people are moving away from denial = “I just pray that that never happens to me” to realization = “that could very well happen to me”.

    And, to add one story- I got this story from a college classmate, earlier today via email- he himself had just 3 months ago been through surgery etc. etc. to remove a brain tumor- (details below edited for confidentiality)- thus-

    ~~My son just had a terrible accident and was pulled down a flight of stairs by his dog just after having surgery on his hand after a workplace accident. His only insurance was (details omitted here) which covered the industrial accident but not the fall down the stairs. We took him home from the hospital, paid all bills for medication … but found out than no physical therapy was scheduled because he didn’t have insurance. His income from disability is too high for him to get medicaid, so it looks like he will be for the entire hospital stay including surgery for a badly fractured ankle. He may have to declare bankruptcy at 27. The current system is rotten. ~~~

    I’ve changed the details a

  24. Jeff W

    …if he had pushed a simple healthcare plan that was easy to understand and couldn’t be demonized so easily (ie. Medicare for all), he might not be losing support so badly.

    I went to a town hall meeting yesterday in Montara, outside of San Francisco, featuring my representative, Rep. Jackie Speier, D-San Mateo. There was, among the crowd of 700, the usual assortment of right-wingers, waving signs about “government takeovers” and booing occasionally (including one guy who earned the derisory laughter of the crowd by claiming, in some sort of delusion of alternative history, that “Bush inherited two wars”).

    The most interesting part was when one person asked Speier about allowing people to buy into Medicare, rather than creating an entirely new administrative structure. (He didn’t refer to it by name but his idea sounded like Thom Hartmann’s proposal.) The crowd, which had previously reacted noisily to whoever was speaking, was stunned into silence for at least a few seconds. It was as if everyone experienced some sort of epiphany, or at least, some couldn’t immediately peg that idea as being on one side of the ideological divide or the other. (One woman, who later stood up and railed against “the government,” heartily endorsed that Medicare “buy-in” approach.)

    Speier’s response was a bit hesitant, saying something like (my paraphrase), “Oh, yes, at a few other town hall meetings, some people have asked that. The problem is that that would quickly turn into single payer,” because, presumably, everyone would defect to it—which, of course, is sort of the “too popular” argument in another context.

    Now, here was a plan, immediately understandable and not easily demonizable (it’s Medicare, after all), arguably revenue neutral (by design), that Speier could critique only by saying, inferentially, that too many people would like it, not exactly a strong argument against. For the record, I’m all for a single payer plan, also, but I think that speaks, admittedly anecdotally, to your point.

  25. CoyoteCreek

    Ian,

    Women may have held out, but we haven’t gotten anything for doing so. Obama is not a friend of choice and never has been. He has been and will continue to be quick to throw women (back) under the bus when it pleases his “bi-partisan” supporters. I wonder how NOW feels after their super-Feminist cover?

    You can say that women held out….but many of us are still out there.

    If Obama was The Answer, then some women (people) asked some really stupid questions….IMHO.

  26. mike

    Yes, the Republicans are going to do very well in 2010. Besides Obama’s corruption and incompetence, the anti-semites have made the left a repugnant international laughingstock that no decent person can stomach. And rather than accept responsibility for their idiocy and bigotry, the Demos are going to blame the Republicans and Jews for everything. Anything except accepting responsibility for their actions.

  27. the anti-semites have made the left a repugnant international laughingstock

    What are you talking about?

  28. Ian:

    This is pretty hypothetical. But I contend that a significantly increased number of Actually Progressive Democrats in the H of R and/or the Senate would actually be indicative of something rather revolutionary in the air, not merely that a few more progressive foot soldiers worked for downticket candidates. Otherwise we’re talking about, what, 15-20 more left-wing Democratic seats? And you think this was going to make a difference?

    See, there’s an underlying premise here in all of these hypothetical situations that I’m not sure I agree with. That premise is that there was a lot of unnecessary surplus labour going to the presidential race. It is taken as a given in certain quarters—that after Bush, the Democrats could have elected a cricket or a slice of cheesecake to the presidency.

    I used to think that in early 2008, but by late 2008 and the election I was not so sure. At this point, seeing what has transpired lately, I’m convinced that is quite wrong.

    But I mean, either way it’s pretty hypothetical: “if my grandmother had wheels…”

    However, if the election of a Democrat was more tenuous than some people are willing to admit, why would that be so? It is because at this point, the gatekeeper to election is not the boots on the ground. This is also true to a lesser extent at the Congressional level, of course.

    As for Hillary, well, it’s telling that she was the only other candidate, because I don’t think anyone really contends that she is outside the Acceptable Mainstream of US politics. I mean, who seriously thinks that she’d have rammed through a single-payer health care system (or really any system, even a Singapore-style one, that approaches universal coverage)? Who thinks that she wouldn’t have reappointed Ben Bernanke? I know who thinks it: the terminally blinkered, and the sort of people who think that Sarah Palin could have been pushed to the left or something like that.

  29. historystudent

    Mandos — the people who think Hillary would have been better are the ones who were hearing her proposing an HOLC to help Main Street the summer before Obama et al gave us TARP. They’re also the ones who know that health care was practically the raison d’etre of her campaign — so whether or not she would have been successful, she’d at least have brought passion to the issue, something clearly lacking in Obama — as well as leadership. You can quite clearly see the passion and engagement she brings to issues she cares about in her work as SOS — how much she’s done to deal with the desperate situation of women around the world, how clearly and successfully she’s put women’s advancement on the foreign policy agenda. Whether or not that passion and engagement turned toward health care would be sufficient to defeat the entrenched interests, I can’t say. But I do believe she’d never have created the kind of message and power vacuum Obama did.

    To say now that Obama is proof the system is stacked against any progressive change or proof that the presidency is in itself powerless to enact change is to completely elide what really needs addressing: how the netroots and their cash flow were suckered in by the Obama ad blitz, and why progressive ideology, such that it exists, such that it is formulated at all or at all informed by history, failed so completely to grasp what was clearly discernible(accommodation and conservatism) in Obama’s actual words and recorded actions.

    I don’t see how any true “progressive” movement can move forward until it seriously grapples with those failures — because those failures are grounded in the very methods the power structure has long used to co-opt change.

    The fact is, progressive walked blindly and eagerly into their own co-opting, and we (they) need to understand how and why. I think looking at that will reveal that progressives are not as historically informed as they should be, are not as well grounded in political and economic thought as they should be, and need to wrestle a whole lot more with dominant ideology (for instance, the odd libertarian streaks popping up as well as the near pervasive level of sexism.)

    To use Obama’s own words: this should be a “teachable moment” for the left, and not something to evade.

  30. Mandos — the people who think Hillary would have been better are the ones who were hearing her proposing an HOLC to help Main Street the summer before Obama et al gave us TARP.

    Ah, yes. I heard the “HOLC HOLC HOLC” mantra from certain quarters all through that period. But lo and behold:

    *BOOP*

    Doesn’t sound like a Champion of the People to *me* at least. Not when it counted.

    And this sort of thing really gets my goat:

    They’re also the ones who know that health care was practically the raison d’etre of her campaign — so whether or not she would have been successful, she’d at least have brought passion to the issue, something clearly lacking in Obama — as well as leadership. You can quite clearly see the passion and engagement she brings to issues she cares about in her work as SOS — how much she’s done to deal with the desperate situation of women around the world, how clearly and successfully she’s put women’s advancement on the foreign policy agenda.

    You say this, and then you have the audacity to accuse the Obama side of projecting their emotions and wishful thinking onto a template (“suckered in”). Do you even realize how much this sounds exactly like them? “Passion and engagement”. Faith and reverence.

    I’ll tell you what’s getting “suckered in”: worshipfully, reverently saying that HRC has “clearly and successfully…put women’s advancement on the foreign policy agenda.” Not so long as the Afghan war continues, it doesn’t. We’ve known this for a long time now. And Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State of this.

    You know, during the primaries I was neither moved by Obama doubleplusgood duckquacking nor did I see “passion and engagement” in Clinton. What I did see (in HOLC, in the health care plans that were so much obvious hot air) were two mainstream—and therefore, doomed to failure—politicians dancing around each other in an ancient politicianly dance. And one was a slightly better dancer and duckquacker than the other. And won.

    What really gets my goat is the hypocrisy in certain quarters when they tell the Obama camp “I told you so” when they themselves were merely the objects of exactly the same political forces.

    In which case…

    I don’t see how any true “progressive” movement can move forward until it seriously grapples with those failures — because those failures are grounded in the very methods the power structure has long used to co-opt change.

    …I totally agree. What definitely doesn’t help is one side positioning themselves as the Cassandras in all of this when they so obviously weren’t. Just because the Hillary side lost doesn’t make it more sanctified.

    To claim that HRC dead-enders and PUMAs and those too…how shall we put this…modest to accept the label are particularly equipped to teach us anything about this:

    The fact is, progressive walked blindly and eagerly into their own co-opting, and we (they) need to understand how and why. I think looking at that will reveal that progressives are not as historically informed as they should be, are not as well grounded in political and economic thought as they should be, and need to wrestle a whole lot more with dominant ideology (for instance, the odd libertarian streaks popping up as well as the near pervasive level of sexism.)

    displays an astonishing degree of sanctimony and blindness.

    And for the record: at the time, I thought Hillary Clinton should have won the primaries for no other reason that I prefer leaders to have real known enemies. But I was wrong. Obama knew how to get that special edge to win, and despite knowing the prior conditions, Hillary Clinton did not.

  31. S Brennan

    Mandos,

    Short and sweet to your hypothetical “she’d have been just as bad…done exactly the same thing”

    FISA vote,

    Obama two thumbs way up

    Hilary says FISA sucks.

    No does not equal yes. Your hypothetical preposition is contrary to factual observations.

  32. Whatever her FISA vote meant, she is Secretary of State in charge of implementing Obama’s foreign policy at the moment. She had the option to remain Senator and be the advocate of the people you believe she was. She chose otherwise. Her actions do not substantiate your faith in her.

    But my point was not that Hillary and Obama were the same. Indeed, Hillary may have been marginally better than Obama in the way that Obama is only somewhat better than Bush—none of them herald any systematic improvement! The point was, though, that Clinton supporters are by no means exempt from the criticisms they level at Obama supporters and do not validly bear the mantle of Cassandra.

    Once again, the problem lies not in which politician was elected to the presidency. The problem is that the scope of change within this system is narrow without a sea-change in the general worldview of the populace.

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